Thursday, December 21, 2006

Boomsticks: The fighting stance...

It's been interesting watching the evolution of the modern fighting stance with the carbine. No longer is it shouldered as though one was trying to centerpunch targets across the neatly mown lawns of Camp Perry, now it's used in a more squared up stance; pretty much the same one used when fighting with a pistol or one's fists.


Square up towards the opponent, lean in, toe of the stock high on the shoulder (bring the weapon up to your eyes, don't duck your eyes down to the weapon), elbows in, weak side foot slightly forward... Practice with it; I think you'll probably find it as natural and versatile as I did in a very short amount of time. It's stuff like this that keeps me coming back to SWAT Magazine. Anybody can write boilerplate about the new Blastomatic 2000; SWAT has the writers that can write about the software that is needed to make the Blastomatic (or any other weapon) useful. The first thing I do when my copy shows up in the mailbox is to flip through it to whatever that month's article is by Pat Rogers; he could write about the proper techniques for using a P38 can-opener and it would be fascinating, educational, and useful...

16 comments:

english kanigit said...

As good as that is, I always like Claire Wolfe's articles better. ;)

-ek

Matt G said...

Yeah, and did you read the pistol ready position article? Interesting.

When I went to that ALERRT training a couple of weeks ago, they were teaching the "sul" position, with the hands together in a diamond over the sternum and the pistol pointed straight down. It was difficult for me to try to use, because I've been reared at the alter of the Weaver. If you look in the new issue of SWAT, they demonstrate it with the pistol pointed a little the left. I was admonished that "sul" meant "south" in Portuguese, and that they didn't know the Portuguese word for "southwest;" it was time to point the gun straight down. When working as a team, the idea has merit. When working alone, it sucks-- the wrist is canted too much for comfort, and causes undue fatigue and slowness.

They also challenged shooting across the body, stating (correctly) that it's hard to walk and do so while covering both sides. They of course exagerated the cross-body position of the position a tad. But the concept of squaring off more to your target while moving toward it is a good one.

Matt G said...

Oh, and I had kept a P-38 on my keychain for years before I figured out that it makes a middlin' decent screwdriver (the corner fits into Phillips, the edge fits into flathead screws).

Rabbit said...

I've also been a Weaver user for years. Anything else just feels weird.

Matt, I've had a P38 on my keychain since high school. Every time I see a basket of them I pick up a dozen or so and stash them to give as little incidental gifts 'just because'. It's one of many idiosyncracies I have.

Regards,
Rabbit.

bjbarron said...

Rabbit -

Me too. Those things are amazingly useful, and a good indicator of someone's mindset if they know what a P-38 is. I've got some of them that are 40 years old or more.

pdb said...

Right, the big advantage for squared up and Weaver is their flexibility. Kinda hard to make best use of cover when you're in a elbows-locked, hunched over isoceles, ain't it?

Also, the biggest (to my mind) advantage of Sul is that it allows a rapid and SAFE 360 threat scan during lulls. Sul offers much better muzzle control, weapon retention and low profile than any other ready position.

Billll said...

I'd heard that the older stance was to turn sideways to present a smalled target to your enemy. The newer stance is to present your body armor to the enemy, and not the more vulnerable sides.

Kristopher said...

So ... who teaches P-38 can opener martial art techniques?

Heartless Libertarian said...

Don't forget to bend slightly at the knees-again, like boxing. This doesn't make much difference if you're just standing in one spot, but straight-legged is not the way to try to walk and do CQB marksmanship.

If you want to see the effects of improper stance during CQB magnified, watch someone try to shoot a SAW while standing upright.

BobG said...

"I've got some of them that are 40 years old or more."

The one on my keychain I got off a can of c-rats(beans and wieners) in 1967; still works just fine for cans, screws, and peeling oranges.

Joe said...

Went thru both Tactical Response 2-day classes for pistols and rifle. Squared-up stance is good - if you have a stock that can adjust to compensate for the shorter length. Even with my long arms a standard length buttstack is wrong because it is too long for comfort. I feel that it works better if you have body armor on than without but that's my opinion. I would like to take the Pat Rodgers 3-day rifle class one of these years.

I look forward to the SWAT mag showing up for all the reasons listed above. There was a time in the 80's that it was mandatory reading for gun guys and military but that changed in the early 90's and I stopped reading it. The current iteration of the magazine is great and it looks like it can only get better!

Still have one of my boot camp P-38's on my keychain - I would feel lost if it wasn't there!

Joe R.

Don Meaker said...

If you note the picture, the strong side wrist is bent severely, which can't be comfortable, nor can it help marksmanship.

I would recommend modern assault carbines have a pistol grip that is canted forward (the bottom closer to the muzzle than to the butt) 10 to 20 degrees. That straightens out the wrist. A similar pistol grip on the front would be comfortable, and a bar connecting the two pistol grips could be a useful place to attach a lanyard.

Ninth Stage said...

Jeff Cooper would never approve. Of course he was a Weaver guy.

Me, I'm a modified (arms bent) isosceles guy. It's easy as pie and natural to bring the gun back to your chest and push back out while avoiding obstacles.

Matt G said...

The idea of proceding in Sul and addressing your target in a squared-up stance is that you are going to be moving, and always moving TOWARD your opponent.

It's just another tool in your chest, but I must say that I like the idea of teaching practical methods of aggressing your opponent. I will always start in a proper Weaver, but now I know how to move a little better in this moving stance. It does keep down muzzle bob while addressing your target on the move. (Keep your steps at half-length, in-line, rolling from heel to toe.)

Anonymous said...

nice rack

Tam said...

anonymous,

With suave lines like that, I bet you need a Taser to keep the girls away.