Wednesday, November 03, 2010

Like a kickstand on a tank...

Apparently a company called Center Balance Systems will sell you an aluminum bullpup stock assembly for your old surplus Mosin-Nagant rifle. They cost $270, and enable you to... well, do something bullpup-ish, I guess.

I'm wondering if there's a special hardened area around the action for when I'm having to knock the bolt handle open with a chunk of 2x4 because I was shooting cheap surplus 7.62x54R ammo.

I'm also wondering if somebody is going to try putting an M38 or M44 carbine in there? Because that'd put the muzzle blast, like, a foot in front of your face...


(H/T to Unc.)

27 comments:

og said...

a bit dyslexic this morning, are we?

Anonymous said...

I've always liked the engineering aspect of bullpop designs, but I've never held one.

I'd think you would need to move the bold handle forward to make the ergonomics right for bolty.

On the other hand a straight pull bolt design hooks to a front grip "pull" would be natural, no?

Tam said...

I was probably subconsciously wishing for cheap surplus 7.62x45 ammo. ;)

TotC said...

So instead of stabbing someone across the Moskva River from the comfort of my foxhole, I have to like, actually expose myself?

Weer'd Beard said...

Looking at schematics and stats and things like balance and overall length bull-pups seems all the rage to me.

Then I shot an S2000 rifle. Seemed ok except when I had to change magazines.

Then on a different occasion I had a head separation in one of my 1911s (Nothing hurt, was too stingy with my brass...lesson learned)

I think bullpups are kinda like H&K guns. People who don't shoot a lot REALLY seem to like them...

Boat Guy said...

"A fool and his money are soon parted" At $270, the thingy is more expensive than the Nagant itself should be.

Anonymous said...

Weer'd exactly right.

Bullpups are for Call of Duty and military sales catalogues. Engineers like them, until they have to use them.

Shootin' Buddy

Bram said...

I got to play with a Steyr AUG once and really liked it. It looked at felt bizarre until I aimed it - then I understood. It seemed to mold itself to my arm and shoulder - very ergonomic.

Always thought it a better way to make a rifle shorter than sawing off the barrel. Why anyone would do it to a Mosin-Nagant id beyond me.

og said...

"I was probably subconsciously wishing for cheap surplus 7.62x45 ammo. ;)"
If you got something to shoot it in, I can certainly understand that!

WV Dicrad. Not going there.

tomcatshanger said...

Maybe someone wants a cheap Barret trainer?

I like some bullpups, and not others. I get the feeling this is one I wouldn't like.

Standard Mischief said...

Compact vehicle gun that shoots a full power cartridge?

Easy to carry hunting arm for heavy brush type terrain?

Something to do with that ugly thing you got cheap because some Bubba "sporterized" it?

Sean said...

I'm thinking this mod has some benefit when the M-N is used for volley fire.

tackdriver Don said...

TK,
if you have a sticky bolt issue with a Mosin, its likely caused by
ancient Russian cosmoline that is flash melted and then hardens as the bullet fires and cools. Chk the throat of the barrel, it needs to be pristine in regards to cosmo.
You could even have cosmoline leaking from the rcvr or stock area as the gun is heated. I have 5 Mosins, they all have bolts so loose they rattle!

Tam said...

tackdriver Don,

None of my Finns do it, nor does my postwar Hungarian M44, but my wartime 91/30 has a chamber that's rough as a cob and doesn't like turning loose of the case sometimes when shooting heavy ball.

Bubblehead Les. said...

Comrade Tam, youse have issues with Great Patriotic War's Peoples Gun expanding the Revolution to taking over the Ninja of the Decadent Capitalistic Pig's Mall?

Peter said...

Then there's the stock thingie for the SKS, for when you have the money for a second SKS but don't want two of them...


WV: dabliest

Ex: That bullpup stock is just the dabliest, d00d!

Kristopher said...

I could see putting a Finn Sako or VKT M39 in a metal accuracy stock ...

But this bullpup thing is getting ridiculous.

The only reason I would consider one is for a CQB specialist weapon, or for something to issue to tank of APC crews as a replacement for the M3 Grease Gun they are using now.

( I still think you need a 7.62x45 AR upper. )

randy said...

Yeesh! I vote the inventor should be made to stand in stocks in Red Square and endure the derision of the Russian people.

WV: Werperm: I have to wait for a full moon to get my werperm.

Noah D said...

try putting an M38 or M44 carbine in there

I want to do this. Because it's insane.

(And then let someone else shoot it. My retinas can't take any more of that kind of thing.)

theirritablearchitect said...

TotC beats me to it.

The whole point of the M-N91 is its size and heft. The bayonet extends the effective stabbing range to the next zip code, and if need be, the butt can be used as a club, as were many during the Great Patriotic War.

Wonderful piece of kit.

Ed Foster said...

Bullpup. Made thousands of them for the Israeli gov't (TAVOR's), and they all suck.

Muzzle blast right in your face.

Pathetic sight radius if you have to use the irons.

Lousy snap shooters. No muzzle feel at all, no steadiness on target.

Impossible in prone (the magazine hits first and throws the muzzle into the ground).

Useless in house to house if you have to fire offside (left handed for a right handed shooter, vice versa if vice versa)

Spongy triggers, as you need a long wobbly connecting rod from the forward trigger under the muzzle to the sear back under your ear.

Putting a bayonet on a bullpup is about as intimidating to a bunch of prisoners being guarded as a can opener hung on a billy club.

To quote the Great Guru, a marvelous answer to a question never asked.

For reference, after working years with the Israelis, I have to say I love them as people, but their military reputation is built primarily on the fact that their only competition is usually fedayeen.

They have several very good commando type outfits, and their Air Force rightly considers itself inferior only to the U.S. Navy/Marine Corps and the RAF.

But the average Israeli soldier is about comparable to a Belgian or French reservist, and they spend an amazing amout of time bitching at each other when they could be getting something done.

Collectively, better than Italians at the military thing, not as good as Brits.

But an intelligent, cheerful, eminently likeable bunch of truely fun people.

Overload in Colorado said...

Mall Ninja in Training that I am, I was looking at a scope rail mount for my Ishapore Enfield from Special Interest Arms. Then I see at their site they also have tactical stocks for them. That snapped me back to the reality that I bought it to be a cheap .308 rifle.

Ancient Woodsman said...

Two thoughts:

A bullpup M-N won't be taller than Lissa anymore, so the bloggershooters will have to find some shorter attendees. Seeing as how the M-N seems to be some sort of bloggershooter yardstick and all.

An engineer would find a way to make a bullpup matchlock, and think nothing of promoting it as better than anything ever invented even after someone lit their hair on fire. "Well, that's not supposed to happen. At all. You're doing it wrong, because it's a great concept & design."

That's how some think, and if they work for certain companies they'll also tell us that we suck, too.

Ed Foster said...

For them as like pikes posing as rifles, I once committed the sin of reaming out the hole slightly on a Swiss 1911 engineer's bayonet (they were cheap then) a few thousanths to make it fit my 1911 rifle.

Consider the very long 1911 action, a more or less 31 inch barrel, and a sawtooth toadsticker almost 2 feet long attached to the end. Hang a few ribbons on it and I could have gone to the Vatican and joined the Swiss Guard.

Cut down many a Christmas tree with that bayonet before I foolishly let someone talk me out of it.

Linoge said...

Man, be a week ahead of the game, and miss the boat entirely regardless. Oh well.

At any rate, supposedly a current owner of the M-N model, as well as the SKS model, is writing up a review of the former and taking some pictures, both of which he is going to forward on to me for posting when he finishes. Barring that, I should have a M-N model in-hand sometime after March, when they start producing that particular product again... guess this means I need to actually use my C&R for once, and procure a rifle first...

Yup, it is ludicrous. Yup, it makes no sense. But it might be fun at Boomershoot. Or be frustrating as hell. *shrug*

Steve Skubinna said...

Just something off putting about that mix of old school and modern... like, maybe, a bowcaster.

jimbob86 said...

Kinda negates the Mosin's utility as an oar, stretcher poles or emergency pole vaulting....