Tuesday, July 16, 2013

Given the fact...

...that the entire Zimmerman/Martin incident and subsequent legal drama was practically a real-life advertisement for taking a class from Massad Ayoob or Southnarc, I was interested to note that Mas didn't mention the case at all except in the most oblique fashion at the MAG-40 class last month.

I had my suspicions as to why, but decided to respect his reticence by not poking my nose in. I see that my assumptions were correct. I'm just a regular Angela frickin' Lansbury.

(I really need to get into an ECQC class.)

28 comments:

Robert said...

From the prosecution side of it, it seems that having any training whatsoever in self defense means that you were planning on getting into trouble. I can only imagine the spittle flinging that would have occured if Zimmerman had taken one of his classes. (But then again, would Z have allowed himself to get into the situation in the first place if he had...)

Tam said...

Having had any training at all means the training you've had is discoverable.

I would dearly love for a jury to be exposed to the training I have had; I would want them to know as much as possible what I knew that led me to making the decisions I made.

That is an advantage of having documented formal training. "I thought the guy was going to do thus-and-such."

"Why?"

"Well, funny you should ask that..."

Remember, you have to have done what a reasonable and prudent person in the exact same situation would have done, knowing what you knew at the time. How does one document what one knew at the time?

Paul said...

I to agree Zimmerman makes a good argument for training. Although I am taking TKD classes in response. Some black thug takes a swing at me and he will be severely surprise by this fat old white guy. Then I'll shoot the bastard. :-)

Paul said...

that "black thug" could be racist. Correct it to be any thug. We have more white copies than any other in my neighborhood.

Not sure what it is about rental housing that seems to bring about temporary changes in indigenous populations.

Tam said...

Paul,

See my comment above where I mentioned "discoverable"?

To the best of my knowledge, things one says on the intertubes are also discoverable.

Al T. said...

Tam, written that letter yet? :)

sepulvedasrevenge said...

I've been linking to Ayoob's Backwoods blog for all my Bay Area friendsters that are calling for #JusticeForTrayvon. They want an adult conversation, I figure it would be useful to cite an actual adult.

Tango Juliet said...

The best sign of good training is never having to use it. - Clint Smith

Anonymous said...

John Farnam spent the first part of his basic handgun class on how to avoid getting in a gunfight and what to do if you had to get in one. It was well worth the cost of the course if I never ended up firing a round.

Gerry

leaddog said...

If you are ever in the unfortunate situation where Mr. Z found himself, rest assured that all of the intertubes posts and comments you have ever made, the signs you have on your vehicle and in or around your house will be zealously used against you to prove malice, prejudice, or whatever disagreeable trait need proven to convict you of something. Be very careful that your trail is not littered with indiscreet comments which make it appear that you are looking for a reason to use deadly force.

Robert said...

Tam, from a defense standpoint, I will agree wholeheartedly that training such as that is wonderful. I was just pointing out that the prosecution and the media (but I repeat myself) will use it as a bludgeon. It comes down to the jury in the end and you have to hope you get one that is resonable.

pax said...

It was pretty dang special to be sitting at the back of a MAG – 40 class when the verdict came in. I wish you could have seen the look on Mas' face. He was as happy as I have ever seen him.

Tam said...

Robert,

Read my response to your comment again.

I know what the prosecution will try and do. What I have to do is be able to let the jury know what my mindset was going into the situation.

Assuming you wound up in a broadly similar situation to the one under discussion, how do you intend to document, in a legally admissible manner, what you knew at the time?

Woodman said...

I'll have to check with someone to see what the magic amount of training is. If I don't have enough I'm a dangerous fool, if I have too much I'm a wanna-be paramilitary.

If I'm too good of a shot I'm a trained killer, if I'm not good enough I'm the NYPD.

Robert said...

Tam. Exactly as you describe it. However, I lack both the time and the money to do anything about it at this time.

Tam said...

Woodman,

I don't care about any of that. Th prosecution is going to paint whatever I did as wrong. I need to be able to counter that with the facts.

Yrro said...

What I find most interest is that MUC would have been *incredibly* useful for both parties. If either party takes SouthNarc's advice none of this ever happens.

Woodman said...

Tam,

My thoughts on this are that you can win the battle and lose the war as Zimmerman has. He will spend the rest of his life dodging his own name. Because he was untrained and gung ho at the same time, and a racist.

My hubris is that I think I could possibly control anything that the prosecution or press decides to say about me. I'm sure due to my 8 years in the infantry I'm the deadliest man alive and able to appraise threat values in milliseconds and respond with the exact amount of reciprocal force. Oh, and I probably hate the whole human race.

Yrro, if either party takes the advice of just about any man over 40 this never happens. 99% of the time macho bullshit just isn't worth it. I envision the two of them puffing up like strange dogs before a single word is exchanged.

Library-Gryffon said...

Woodman, what do you base calling Zimmerman a racist on?

This is a man with some black family members, who tutored young black kids, and helped create the public outcry for investigation of the beating of a homeless black man by the son of a white cop. The only time he mentioned "black" was when the dispatcher asked him what race the kid in the hoodie was.

Tam said...

Lybrary-Griffon

"Woodman, what do you base calling Zimmerman a racist on?"

I think he was talking about how Zimmerman has successfully been painted, not how he actually is.

Library-Gryffon said...

I hope that's what he meant, and I'm more than willing to believe that at this point, I'm not seeing/reading straight.

So, Woodman, if I misunderstood you, my apologies.

Woodman said...

Yeah, I was painting with the Media brush there. Taking shortcuts in conversations usually doesn't save me time in the long run. Apology accepted, I'm often misunderstood, even if it makes sense in my own head.

This case has proven once again that it doesn't matter what the facts are, but how the media interprets them for you.

There are a lot of famous people showing their asses right now based on stories in the news that bare little if any relation to facts. I still can't get over how Zimmerman is proving young black lives are worthless, but ignoring hundreds dying a year in Chicago doesn't mean anything.

Bubblehead Les. said...

If one can't take a class with Mas, then get his books, ingrain them into your sub-conscious and use his advice if you ever have to pull the Trigger on a Goblin.

Why? Because Mas' articles saved MY Ass when I shot at my Goblin 30+ years ago, that's why.

But I still need to get to class. On the Bucket List.

Library-Gryffon said...

Woodman: thank you. I suspect that there's so much stuff going on right now that my sarcasm meter has given up in utter despair.

I don't go to LGF anymore (stopped when Charles decided that all Christians were dangerous loons and had to be mercilessly mocked for the slightest and no reasons, and it seems he's gotten worse), but from those who still wade through the fever swamps comes this: http://thediaryofdaedalus.com/2013/07/14/sympathy-for-darryl-green-is-racist/ . Apparently if a white person shows concern about a dead black kid in Chicago, it just proves how racist they are. Or something.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around how the two following viewpoints are not considered mutually exclusive: "Want to bring TM's killer to justice? No? You're racist!" and "Want to find and bring Darryl Green's killer to justice? Yes? You're a racist!" I guess you can only prove your non-racist cred by supporting thug wanna-bes, and only thug wanna-bes. Kids who don't want to join gangs aren't worthy of of the non-racist's concern.

Further proof that the left are both delusional and evil.

NotClauswitz said...

I wish Mas' class was closer to where I could get to it, but Louis instilled a good deal of, "run away fist and run away second" in his class and Mas' "Ayoob Files" is the one reason I keep a subscription to Am. Handgunner .

Anonymous said...

"things one says on the intertubes are also discoverable."

Yup, I would be _so_ screwed. I'll talk to _anybody_ on the 'net, about _anything_, and have done so. If they call me a racist all I can do is say, "You say that like it's a bad thing!"

I do try to follow Derbyshire's Rules for my own safety. Make the most of it.

Justthisguy said...

Oh, I was anonymous @2:36. Google had logged me out without notice or permission. I do believe in owning my shit.

Tam said...

"I do believe in owning my shit."

A singularly apt turn of phrase.