Comments on View From The Porch: I ain't goin' out like that...

AndyS,My concealed weapon saved me from receiving ...

2006-09-19T10:30:00.000-04:00

AndyS,

My concealed weapon saved me from receiving grave bodily injury if not from death. My 'superb judgement' consisted of deciding the guy swing the hickory club at my skull did not have my best interests at heart. Marksmanship was not required for once I was off of his line of attack, he realized I was drawing a mean, old, nasty, handgun. At that point, he released said hickory club and ceased his assault. Therefore, using aforementioned 'superb judgement,' I ceased my defense. He's still out there, still has his hickory sledge hammer handle and would probably like to interact with you. Have fun.

I know the history of the War of 1812 as well as WWI and WWII. I know what the Canadians were. I also know what the British were. And, as a whole, no longer seem to be. And, no, my friends, I will not accept your invitations to go to a bar anywhere and insult anyone. Always the chance of meeting the rare exception and I must validate my 'superb judgement.' :-)
Best,

Byron Quick

Well ... didn't Tam's post attract all sorts of at...

2006-09-17T20:55:00.000-04:00

Well ... didn't Tam's post attract all sorts of attention! As often happens, there was the usual mix of reason, loathing, xenophobia amd hyperbole.

Perhaps I can clear some things up. The Montreal (not Toronto) shooter killed himself. He was shot once by a police round. All the weapons he carried were legally obtained ... under current Canadian law. I don't expect Americans to understand why we Canadians have the ridiculous gun laws we have. It makes no sense to those of us in the RFC.

The current system was set up after the 1989 murder of 14 women at a Montreal college and was also supposed to prevent this very type of tragedy. Those of us in the RFC said it wouldn't work ... and with a heavy heart, we have been proven right.

High schools ends at Grade 11 for Quebec teenagers. Dawson College (the location of the shootings) is an English language university preparation college. Don't ask ... it just is part of the educational system in Quebec. Many of the student are 16 and 17 years old ... the age of many of the Colunbine students. They did what 16 year olds do when confronted by something that's life threatening and unknown. The Canadians were no different from their American cousins.

When I had a loaded weapon pointed at me (a military-grade assault rifle), I had the training and mindset to respond. These kids didn't.

Would it have been different if some of the students, professors, staff or passers-by were armed? I think so ... but I don't know. I agree whole-heartedly with Tam's essential position that she wouldn't go like that. I don't plan to, either.

I know it's fun to imagine how many words the Inuit have for "snow". In fact, they have no more names that we English have for the colour blue, or red or green or any others.

Finally, I don't see all Americans as being the archtypical "Ugly American". Similarly, I reject the notion that all Canadians are impotent pussies.

And ... some of us in our passion may not spell perfectly. So what? Everyone who read that piece understood with perfect clarity.

And ... you don't have to go to Alberta. Come on down to the north end of Hamilton. We can dance.

Thanks for your thoughts, Tam. When I read blogs, I always go to yours first.

Regards,
George

Way back in this thread, someone (Ryan Waxx?) aske...

2006-09-17T10:12:00.000-04:00

Way back in this thread, someone (Ryan Waxx?) asked "In what state CAN you carry a gun at a school? " Oregon.

Many civilian gun owners interested in self-defens...

2006-09-17T09:30:00.000-04:00

Many civilian gun owners interested in self-defense spend more time practicing their marksmanship than many police officers.

I myself have gotten some looks from LAPD officers and Sheriffs when the topic of ammunition consumption comes up. I've gotten 'the bug-eyed look' from an LAPD officer when i had several boxes of .357 in a bag, especially when i said they'd only last a month, and that I fully expected my wife to shoot at least two of the boxes.

As someone here said, "It is better to have it and...

2006-09-17T01:34:00.000-04:00

As someone here said, "It is better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it." I've been in both positions, and "having it" is much better. So it's a 1911 AND I PRACTICE!

I agree with you on all you said...I especially li...

2006-09-16T22:45:00.000-04:00

I agree with you on all you said...I especially liked the subtle chastisement, (which is probably a French word since it reeks of gentle scolding...something the Froggies might be good at, along with surrender.), posted by the poor poofy soul who winters in Paris. If such a person exists and does, in fact, winter in France they should already be very familiar with various very well used mechanisms of surrender. After all, they make it a naional avocation and have for centuries. This wimpy limp attitude didn't happen overnight. Keep up the inspiration. If the Ogres ever dance where I am I sincerely hope you and others like us are in the area. We will show to them a "new" tune to dance to.

Had to think about this one for a while and come b...

2006-09-16T19:02:00.000-04:00

Had to think about this one for a while and come back to it. Now it is time to toss in my 2 cents. Or my tooney, I guess.

Texan, here, and lifelong if it means anything one way or the other.
I am also constantly, probably chronically, armed. This decision based upon a few factors, but having had to deal with several "bad situations" in my life, it seems prudent. I would like to "not need to" or feel I don't ened to, but the world does not exist as such, currently.

Cannucks, are not by nature, cowards. Neither are the French, even though they get that bad rap. Ask the Germans about the French in WWI. Or the French resistance in WWII. The French showed no lack of courage in Indochina, and just made a lot of stupid tactical and political errors in waging that little war. The US made its own later on, and could not be accused of cowardice on the individual, unit, or military level. The cowardice, or maybe lack of true resolve, was found "up top".

Anyhow, Canadians are just people. Like Americans and French and even (gasp) Afghanis and Saudis who are now AQ. Politics and religeon and the like may make people good or bad relative to your own position, but we can't call them cowards because they are "the bad guys".

Anyhow, someone posted the famous "Wolves, Sheep, and Sheepdogs" by Grossman. I think Grossman gives credit to an old Master Sgt. for the idea, but Grossman made it famous. Grossman also notes in "On Killing" that the greatest majority of people "we" my currently consider "Sheepdogs" will NOT kill deliberately when pressed to by duty. They are not cowards because of that. In fact, many arre quite brave in the face of fire. They will just not "pull the trigger" in combat or when faced with mortal danger, even to mortal danger to themselves. "Sheepdogs" with training, motivation, authority, and reason to kill will not always do so.

So....the sheepdog may not always gaurd the sheep effectively. Not due to cowardice, but due to humanity and its inherent "non-desire" to harm another.

And, Grossman also noted, it was often the "sheep" or what would have been perceived as a "sheep" who could suddenly rise up (or fall down) and become the sheepdog or the wolf. There is no single identifying factor of any type that can be easily factored in with certainty until the moment of truth comes and passes. We are all, or were all, at some time and moment sheep. And many of the sheepdogs and the wolves may find it all a state of "wannabe" at some crisis juncture. As well, we may see the "sheep" rise up and stampede in the direction of danger and eliminate it.

Anyhow,(ramble, ramble) it is easy to judge from the outside what we (many of us who have NEVER been presented with real danger or threat, but live in the HOPE we would act well in it face) think one group or an individual should have done, or what we would have done, etc. And certainly we can judge and analyze, and hopefully learn, from such events. But I have trouble with the expectation that people with ZERO training in anything should be expected to act, or think, even minutely like a "trained" person will in the same circumstances.

Having been pressed into "acting on training" on a few occasions, I can tell you these two certainties about myself:

1. training takes over and you do things, good and proper and appropriate things, without concious thought.

2. You are (or I was) still scared a bit shitless.

I didn't have time to be a coward or not. The time wasn't presented to allow that. It was always that the event just occured, and I "reacted" to it. I am sure as much a chance of cowardice or heroics exists in me as in any other person, given time to think and contemplate. The same with the Canadians and the French and the Eskimo.

Canadian college students are as dull, vapid, and as unable (or as insightful, brave, and idealistic) as US college students are. If you don't think so, just hang around a college campus for a while.

And before you judge harshly anything that doesn't smack of cold and deliberate cowardice under fire, hope that after that judgement you don't find yourself with piss running down your leg, tunnel vision, sweaty palmed, and with a pistol in your hand and a target to acquire.

"do i think canada has to strict gun control. abso...

2006-09-16T16:51:00.000-04:00

"do i think canada has to strict gun control. absolutly. should people be allowed to cary? certenly not!"

So, when is Canada going to get strict gun control, instead of allowing sociopathic punks like Gill to get their grubby paws on firearms?

I was born in Niagara Falls, have family still the...

2006-09-16T16:22:00.000-04:00

I was born in Niagara Falls, have family still there, and my brother married a teacher from Toronto. I know the Canadians. Their soldiers are good. Many citizens are a**holes. Quebec? If you don't like it, move back to France, where all the jackasses live. Remember, the US saved your asses TWICE against Germany, and you jerkoffs still wouldn't let Reagan overfly your pitiful country to bomb Libya. P*ssies. Still pissed that we invaded you in 1812 or whenever, trying to help you get free of a faggy king/queen setup that you still worship? Idiots. The only reason you don't speak Russian today is that WE watched the North Pole and paid most of it. If Russia, or a few angry Eskimos invaded from the north, you'd lay down and cry for Mommy. Okay, the US has problems. But if everyone carried, mass murders wouldn't happen. That jackass would have been shot through the head within ten seconds if any of MY shooting buddies were near him. You ban all guns? Well, look what you got. Did it keep him from getting a gun? NOOOOO. Did it keep many people from being able to shoot him the first minute?? YESSSSSS. You lose, jerks. Stop being so proud of your country. Financially, we can crush you. Take your fingers out of your butts and start pulling triggers with them. Even millions of GIRLS in the USA can fight and shoot better than your cops can. The song "American Woman" had a line in it toward the end "American Shit". Sung really softly. Real tough rock group. You have more words for "surrender" than Eskimos have for "snow"? Now why doesn't that surprise me?? The Nazis blew through France in a few weeks. And in WW one, we saved your butts. You'd still be in the trenches picking your noses trying to get that piece of shit "cho-cho" or however you spell that junkie machine gun you had to work right.

Ok, I REALLY try to avoid posting on threads when ...

2006-09-16T04:09:00.000-04:00

Ok,
I REALLY try to avoid posting on threads when one or more people are incredibly obtuse. However, with the liberal troll and a couple of Canadian Defenders, it's time for me to step into the ring.

First off, I do NOT don (and yes it is don NOT dawn, which happens in the morning) Canadian colours when I head overseas. I am an American, an old line, hardcore Constitutional Republic American. Admittedly I have had many Europeans tell me that I am not what they consider a typical American due to my old world courtesies. While I do know Americans who don the maple leaf, they are all liberal sheep, enough said.

I am glad that lawdog spoke up, perhaps the liberals will listen to him as his LEO experience gives him credibility. I will say however, that I have noticed the same thing as a martial arts instructor and a firearms enthusiast.

As far as being trained and experienced to handle potentially violent situations, my money is on the highly trained martial artists. Police officers are given much more latitude in force deployment than those of us who do not and have not worn a badge. Therefore for our own self-preservation we need to train to a higher standard. That is one of the things that liberal gun-grabbers like to gloss over. I as a non-LEO MUST train harder on my own dime, and consequently attain an equivalent or higher degree of competency than an LEO. Remember, in a court of law if I am attacked b a knife wielding goblin and I drop him with a well-executed crushed trachea I will have a less than fun time explaining in court why I didn't just break the thugs arm. Whereas a cop in the same situation will get a wash for putting two hole in the goblins chest.

What I'm trying to say is that people who do not wear a badge are held to a higher standard in the courts.

As far as the trust issue goes, I trust people to do whatever they feel is in their best interest at that particular time. That being said, for a reasonably law-abiding person it is pretty much never in their best interest to start shooting indiscriminately(sp?) due to both criminal and civil penalties.

So, yes I am all for repeal of all gun laws, among other "prior restraint" laws as I do not believe that any "prior restraint" law has a place in a Constitutional Republic. Yes, I know that makes sheep nervous and I really don't care. There are plenty of places in this world where sheep can live happily under those types of laws. I just want one place they don't exist. According to the Constitution that place is here.

I wouls prefer to live and let live, if forced I am willing to live and let die. However, I am EMPHATICALLY UNWILLING to allow the forces of darkness to roll over myself or my loved ones unopposed. I will NOT go softly into the night and anyone who is not comfortable with my acquiring the requisite tools can feel free to p'og ma hoen.

-Gregg

The problem is, you guys always assume that the gu...

2006-09-16T00:18:00.000-04:00

The problem is, you guys always assume that the gun-toting citizens on the scene will have:

* superb judgment about what situations warrant resorting to the gun
* top-notch training and years of experience in the handling of violent situations
* excellent marksmanship

And the problem that all of you gun-grabbers share is the belief that the gun-toting police officers on the scene will have:

* superb judgment about what situations warrant resorting to the gun
* top-notch training and years of experience in the handling of violent situations
* excellent marksmanship

Buddy, it just ain't so. And I've been a cop since 1993, so don't try to blow smoke up my skirt.

You want to know the difference between a legally-armed citizen and a peace officer? The citizen wants to be armed and actively seeks training for it.

For most police, carrying a gun is part of the uniform. It's another badge of office. Police -- for the most part -- dodge training.

My Law Enforcement Academy class shot a 40 hour -- five day -- class on firearms. Since graduation, the majority of my fellow cadets have fired less than 100 rounds every two years.

On the other paw, those friends of mine who are not cops, but have Concealed Handgun Licenses fire between 50 and 500 rounds of ammunition every month.

A lot of cops go to classes on judgement under stress because they are forced to. And since they didn't pay for it -- it ain't their money -- they have no investment in doing any better than "Seven-Oh and Go".

A citizen who pays good money out of his own pocket to attend a seminar or class has a reason -- the money he sweated for -- to do the best he can in the class. He wants his moneys worth.

Don't ever assume that wearing a badge grants someone magical gun powers, eldritch tactical skills and/or voodoo marksmanship.

LawDog

wow its nice to see so many hero's packing heat. s...

2006-09-15T22:23:00.000-04:00

wow its nice to see so many hero's packing heat.

seeing that (old numbers) the US has over 10 000 gun related deaths a year, it makes me wounder if mabee your the problem.

leave the heroism to the trained professional, not some cowboy. everyone has there childhood fantasy of being the one to save the day or kill the menise to society.

do i belive in self defence. yes. do i think canada has to strict gun control. absolutly. should people be allowed to cary? certenly not! (being that in a situation where force is the easy way out a person is more likly to use that sidearm. even if said situation could be defused without deadly force.)

isn't the point of deadly force supose to be a last resort? what makes you qualified to make such a decision. i know i'm not unless my life is in emidiate danger.

that being said. go ahead paint canadians as toothless creatures. bread on viloence never solves anything. don't forget that it was the canadians that always took the missions the americans could never finish. be it vimy ridge, the holding of the 49th in korea where the lines fell all around them or the current mission in afganistan where canadians (2000)are fighting in the south with less casualties (other then your cowboy pilot friendly fires) then the american (23 000 in afganistan) military.

Also i find that funny concidering when americans travel they dawn the canadian flag so as not to be known as americans. if all this red white and blue your shooting up my a$$ is so great quit wearing my colors.

now i'm not and american basher. i've been there met the people in the north and south and most are nice and friendly. but that been said you do have alot of cowboys and ignorent duma$$es too. more then i'd like to admit. I am going to travel again down to the US but as before i will feel less safe knowing that joe blow could be carying and how well has he been trained on that firearm.

"Canadians are soft, docile, toothless creatures i...

2006-09-15T19:49:00.000-04:00

"Canadians are soft, docile, toothless creatures indoctrinated from birth that violence never solves anything, and that the best thing to do when the Morlocks come for you is to relax"

Interesting, so that's a national trait is it? I'll remember that next time I'm tempted to speak up when someone paints all Americans with a single brush.

Excuse me now, I have to attend another tooth removal session hosted by the federal government.

Why should I believe that the typical "legally arm...

2006-09-15T18:51:00.000-04:00

Why should I believe that the typical "legally armed citizen" is a sheepdog to begin with?

because they have fangs, which makes them a wolf or a sheepdog.

I hope you're a teetotaler, Tamara. I quit hunting...

2006-09-15T18:34:00.000-04:00

I hope you're a teetotaler, Tamara. I quit hunting at age 17 when I had grown up enough to figure out that alcohol and firearms don't mix.

It's a rule to live by, as I prove by being alive. Quite a few of those who disagreed with me those many years ago are now dead of 'hunting accidents.'

Dear Unix-Jedi:Thanks for helping me understand. ...

2006-09-15T17:45:00.000-04:00

Dear Unix-Jedi:

Thanks for helping me understand. You are every bit as paranoid and violence-prone as liberals expect.

I have to say, though... you sound less like a sheepdog and more like a Chihuahua, yapping at anything that moves!

Good luck and don't shoot the wrong guy.

I'd be interested in hearing an opinion from a for...

2006-09-15T17:24:00.000-04:00

I'd be interested in hearing an opinion from a former military member or police officer, who actually has been in a situation like this. IE: A stressful, confused environment where you are armed with a pistol, and your adversary has a superior weapon.

Apparently the early news report I read was inaccurate. I was wrong. The man had a semi-automatic carbine. The argument that it only shoots 9mm bullets is hilarious to me, though. Sure, if you were hit and you were lucky, you could still walk. You'd have to be a pretty tough mother to keep going towards the guy though.

It'd be nice to hear from someone with experience. Anybody like that out there? Would police officers really prefer that there be people taking things into their own hands? Or are too many other problems caused by such attitudes?

Cheers to achillea.

It still seems to me that you make assumptions abo...

2006-09-15T15:53:00.000-04:00

It still seems to me that you make assumptions about the judgment, experience, and ability of "legally armed citizens" that just can't be correct.

This reminds me.. I asked a very liberal friend of mine, upon the sunsetting of the "Assault Weapon" Ban...

"So, when I tell you the law was bullshit, when I tell you I hunt with a gun that looks just like an AK-47, and is legal under the law, and that is identical in operation to the "hunting rifles" you say are OK, I, who shoot 100 or so pistol rounds a week, and 40-200 monthly of rifle ammo... You tell me that you've never touched a gun, but you still Know Better"

She, of course, answered "Yes." I see lots of similiaties.

...judgment, experience, and ability of "legally armed citizens" that just can't be correct.

At least you're not asking anymore. I'd respect your stance and argument more if you hadn't been so blatantly (and pathetically) dishonest earlier.

Andys:I really didn't expect you to behave better....

2006-09-15T15:42:00.000-04:00

Andys:

I really didn't expect you to behave better. Low expectations = less disappointment.

You said: I come not to troll, but to understand... so please be patient or tell me to go if you're not in the mood.

But that's exactly what you came to do. You came to lecture, and to invent "facts", to insult, and deride.

Couching it as a "question" to start with, is just blantantly dishonest. On a par with "I own a gun, and I believein the 2nd Amendment, but...."

I'd really be interested to hear you defend what I see as the core issue -- which is that the arguments made in this blog all presume a level of skill and experience that can't reasonably be expected of a "legally armed populace".

That's me, by the way. And Tam. And pdb. And a number of lurkers I know who are reading this.

So far, you've not yet insulted. But...

One crazy gunman + legally armed populace = lots of people shot by crazy gunman + lots of peoople shot by wildly firing civilians + one dead crazy gunman.

Now, you've dropped your "question" stance - but not obviously, yet. Now you're telling us that this is the way things are. We're dangerous. Yes, yes, blood in the streets, we've heard it a time or two before.

But I was still willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, so I asked you to give an example - seeing as how 90+% of the country regularly issues/does not need permits for concealed carry, surely there's some example here to pick from.

Can you point at an example where an armed citizenry has intervened, to positive effect, in a mass-murder-in-progress?

I, and several others, did just that. Again, believing you were here in good faith, more the fools us. But hey, we, unlike dishonest people, tend to take people at their word.

I gave you several. Others chimed in with more. You ignored those, and apparently forgot you were here to "question" and "learn"...

In the midst of sudden confusion, how do you know that what you're faced with is "a guy shooting random people"? In a split second, how do you determine that you're not faced with law enforcement action, a movie being shot, or a prank?

You made your mind up long before you ever heard of this weblog.

Again, even if you feel you have that ability yourself, how do you assure that all of the gun-toting citizens around you have that same ability? The price of bad judgement can be pretty steep.

It's called Trusting Your Fellow Man. See, those of us who trust people - even ones who lie and deceive as you do to disarm victims and enable rapists, murderers, and robbers. Those who you sneer at for having a lack of sense trust you far more than you trust us.

Anecdotal. There are also many examples of legally armed citizens stupidly shooting each other in disputes over parking spots. Just watch "Cops"!

"Many examples"? But when I asked for for one you balked. So, where are all the others?

This is where you showed your true colors. You were here to spread lies and misinformation. It's a bad place to do that, really. We've dealt with a lot of bullshit through the years - from far better bullshitters than you, I might add.

To identify ... to hit the guy as he moves ... to avoid hitting any of the others ... law enforcement personnel ... Not so simple as you suggest!

I merely disagreed politely -- didn't characterize opposing views in any way.

Unless you're capable of understanding vernacular English, that is. Perhaps you really didn't mean to insult almost all of us here. The fact that you did is your problem, not ours.

They are quick to anger, and resort to violence with little provocation. They lack the judgement to distinguish between a minor challenge and a serious threat. They respond by lashing out wildly, shooting at targets both real and imaginary.

How? How have you been injured? Oh, someone said something to you. Yes, well, that Embarrassing Freedom Of Speech. After you get rid of those Dangerous Guns, you'll have to do more about that.

You lied, Andys. You came in, with deception and malice aforethought, and now, you're shocked, SHOCKED to find that people respond badly to that? Respond poorly to lies, mischaracterizations, ad-hominum attacks 'Just watch "Cops"!'

Like you, they lack the judgement, experience, and skills necessary to correctly identify threats, evaluate their seriousness, and respond appropriately and effectively.

Well, perhaps. But at least I'm honest.

Gary N:Thanks for pointing me at the sheep, wolves...

2006-09-15T15:10:00.000-04:00

Gary N:

Thanks for pointing me at the sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs article.

In the context of the article, I'd still like to pose the question I've been trying to get somebody to address.

I would like to suggest that you don't get to be a sheepdog simply by declaring yourself one. In the real world of sheepdogs, while natural herding instinct certainly plays a part, a great deal of effort is required to produce a well-trained and effective dog.

It is also necessary to start with a dog that's made for herding in the first place. Allow either a Chihuahua or a Grey Wolf to become a sheepdog and disaster will ensue.

To carry the analogy into the world of humans...

Why should I believe that the typical "legally armed citizen" is a sheepdog to begin with? The idea of being a sheepdog seems to have appeal to many people who aren't equipped by nature for the job.

And even if he or she has those traits, how do we assure that the necessary training takes place? There's a lot more to it than marksmanship!

It still seems to me that you make assumptions about the judgment, experience, and ability of "legally armed citizens" that just can't be correct.

Dear Unix-Jedi:I read through my post carefully an...

2006-09-15T14:54:00.000-04:00

Dear Unix-Jedi:

I read through my post carefully and I most certainly did not "insult" or "disparage" anybody! I merely disagreed politely -- didn't characterize opposing views in any way.

But, in your reply, you've been kind enough to make my point for me.

Many people behave like you have behaved in this brief exchange. They are quick to anger, and resort to violence with little provocation. They lack the judgement to distinguish between a minor challenge and a serious threat. They respond by lashing out wildly, shooting at targets both real and imaginary.

As long as your weapon is just a keyboard, I'm fine with that. But it's exactly the behavior you've displayed that worries me, when it comes to the reliability of "legally armed citizens". Like you, they lack the judgement, experience, and skills necessary to correctly identify threats, evaluate their seriousness, and respond appropriately and effectively.

Andy,I don't care if it's law enforcement, movie, ...

2006-09-15T14:42:00.000-04:00

Andy,
I don't care if it's law enforcement, movie, or a prank. If I'm being shot at, I'm firing back.

My hat is off to you, lady; one of the best posts ...

2006-09-15T12:22:00.000-04:00

My hat is off to you, lady; one of the best posts I've seen in a long time. I think you've summed up how most of us feel in a concise, uncomplicated manner.
I'd also like to give a hat tip to Unix-Jedi for the excellent rebuttal.

While not always "mass-murder" there is a blog set...

2006-09-15T11:28:00.000-04:00

While not always "mass-murder" there is a blog set up specifically for articles about successful gun self defense.

AndyS:Anecdotal. There are also many examples of l...

2006-09-15T10:23:00.000-04:00

AndyS:
Anecdotal. There are also many examples of legally armed citizens stupidly shooting each other in disputes over parking spots. Just watch "Cops"!

Name one.

You asked me to name examples - and I did so. I pointed out why my examples should be in the minority, if you were right.

But you were being dishonest. You've lied about why you said what you said. Now that it turns out that yes, I've got a lot of examples, you're going to ignore me, and continue with your (now very disputed point). Despite your (demonstrated) utter lack of knowledge or expertise in the area you are declaring yourself an absolute expert.

You've, without any facts or examples to back them up, made up your mind, and you'll make up facts to "support" your case. When I called on you to back up your assertation the first time - in good faith - you stalled.

But now you've revealed your true colors with that comment. Yes, I watch COPS every so often. I've yet to see a single shooting of "legally armed citzens" by others. Or a dispute over a parking spot.

That's exactly what this latest massacre in Montreal shows - the absolute failure of your mindset.

At least be honest about that, even if you want to disparage and insult people who disagree with you.

Not so simple as you suggest!

I think sir, that you've now shown that you don't have the ability to correctly judge, or render a decision on that. Not that I think you'll suddenly get a huge dose of morality and admit that you're here under a false flag.