tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post1907236621824909596..comments2023-11-10T04:17:00.492-05:00Comments on View From The Porch: All Trayvon, All The TimeTamhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-70414861261710076452012-04-04T15:10:54.855-04:002012-04-04T15:10:54.855-04:00FWIW:
The tv people have enhanced the video of Zi...FWIW:<br /><br />The tv people have enhanced the video of Zimmerman's head, and there is obvious damage, according to them. ( I wasn't able to view the video)<br /><br />Last thing I would have thought they would do, as it would seem to hurt their stance on the whole thing.Willhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00722792638246578812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-23196648038420900442012-04-03T21:32:40.316-04:002012-04-03T21:32:40.316-04:00@RWC
Just before the tiger appears, he is explain...@RWC<br /><br />Just before the tiger appears, he is explaining to Willard why he's called "Chef" and that he is a trained saucier.<br /><br />Oh BTW, I was never issued a "cool kid card". That is why I hang out on gun blogs.<br /><br />858x70Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-15747252838125008282012-04-03T02:16:23.128-04:002012-04-03T02:16:23.128-04:00Off Topic
Montie have you read Loren Christensen ...Off Topic<br /><br />Montie have you read Loren Christensen new/first fiction book, "Dukkha: The Suffering?"<br /><br />Good read I found.<br /><br />Just wondering if you had and what you thought.<br /><br />I think it's kind of relivent to the discusion in away.<br /><br />Hmmm...Josh Kruschkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09288700371539530398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-78832850540762551082012-04-02T23:25:40.443-04:002012-04-02T23:25:40.443-04:00Leatherwing,
Point taken. Sorry if I came off a l...Leatherwing,<br /><br />Point taken. Sorry if I came off a little huffy. <br /><br />I rather like the no belt, pants too big style. It often turns what might be a long foot pursuit into a short foot pursuit ending in watching the suspect trip and fall when his pants drop to his knees. Somehow, the suspects have stayed the same age while I have gotten older and I can use the help these days. :)Montiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17926708261895308192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-81225632460938769652012-04-02T21:04:26.679-04:002012-04-02T21:04:26.679-04:00Montie,
Not sure what judgement I passed, other th...Montie,<br />Not sure what judgement I passed, other than that it's a bad idea to wear pants that won't stay up. The waistband clutch to hold up your pants looks a lot like grabbing something in the waistband.<br /><br />My point is that young black men might want to start cinching up their pants for their own safety.Leatherwinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11490062287496074480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-53486151727064392732012-04-02T20:26:31.716-04:002012-04-02T20:26:31.716-04:00PS. That was for you to Goober... and others.PS. That was for you to Goober... and others.Josh Kruschkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09288700371539530398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-49013955513546950282012-04-02T20:03:41.638-04:002012-04-02T20:03:41.638-04:00Tam,
I have a VERY close personal connection to t...Tam,<br /><br />I have a VERY close personal connection to the Pasadena Police Department, and heard of the Mcdade shooting in the immediate aftermath before it went national. As you might expect one of the things that came up was that it would be compared to the Martin shooting if it hit the national media.<br /><br />Once again we are seeing judgements passed by people with very limited knowledge of an event (Leatherwing, OtherWhiteMatt & Goober among them). Having done this job for 27 years, I would like to put in a couple of thoughts.<br /><br />For one, there is a considerable difference in responsibility between having a weapon on you in the event that it might be needed to preserve your life and carrying a weapon as someone who is paid to and expected to go where most do not want to go and do what most do not want to do. You cannot compare the two situations because the only similarity is that a young black man was shot (something that happens weekly here at the hands of other young black men, but we don't want to talk about that).<br /><br />Second, unless you've seen the elephant, stop trying to second guess what someone else did in a deadly force encounter, be it Zimmerman or the two Pasadena officers. I'll tell you this, all that stuff you hear about tunnel vision, auditory exclusion, tachypsychia, etc. is true times ten. Life as a cop is not "Gunsmoke" and we don't give them first shot if we can help it. Does the fact that I'm wearing a vest mean that I should take at least one bullet before returning fire? Damn, I hope the bad guy is good enough to make a for sure ten- ring shot or he might hit me someplace not covered by kevlar.<br /><br />Goober, where did you get the information that their guns were already drawn? Maybe they were or maybe they weren't but if they were, it was because they were told that the suspects were armed and only a fool approaches an armed criminal with his gun in his holster. I knew that they were looking at arresting the RP for Involuntary Manslaughter, because his story that Mcdade and his accomplice were armed had a lot to do with the mindset of the officers on their approach. Oh, and as to shooting someone "because his hands were near his belt" was not what happened there. As in the Trayvon Martin case, you should wait for the facts to come out. Those officers are undergoing hell right now (self-inflicted and otherwise) and it's no guarantee of skating just because you have a badge.Montiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17926708261895308192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-9687729083882323842012-04-02T19:59:43.156-04:002012-04-02T19:59:43.156-04:00I have in this case made the argument that in orde...I have in this case made the argument that in order to be a good witness, you have to actually witness stuff. Sometimes that stuff moves and necessitates you moving your vantage point in order to continue to be a good witness.<br /><br />I also can see the point of not leaving the boat. Not stepping off the curb into the busy street is safe advice. <br /><br />But......<br /><br />Most neighborhood watch programs I have seen consisted of people 'walking' through their neighborhood. In groups for sure, but still they were not watching the neighborhood while driving around in cars.<br /><br />If that is how Zimmerman performed his duties when doing his neighborhood watch thing - then that would set a baseline in his mind for what or where or how he would actually go about doing that neighborhood watch thing. In other words, looking at suspicious people while on foot, and not inside a vehicle, would not be abnormal. It's possible that because of that 'standard mode of activity' it would never have crossed his mind to remain in the car.GuardDucknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-51546093486622525282012-04-02T19:52:25.710-04:002012-04-02T19:52:25.710-04:00Theotherwhitemat-
Now that really is some just st...Theotherwhitemat-<br /><br />Now that really is some just step off the curb with out check both ways because you have right of way thinking.<br /><br />There was an armed robery of the IHOP on my property a couple weeks a go. I need to make contact as to gather info for my report. Do I walk up on the blindside of the Cruser, trusting the armed officer that is dealing with an armed robery suspect will if startled by me make the right choice of not shooting me. Or, do I walk slowly wide around the vehicle keeping my hands in site, can't see into the cruser as the light are flashing in my eyes. Officer notice me calls me over I get my info, I go on about my merry way.<br /><br />Ever hear of the OODA Loop? (observe, orient, decide, and act) Waiting to see the gun puts you at the observe portion of the loop where your possible assailant is already possible at act.<br /><br />Hands kill. It is just common courtesy when two unknown possible armed individual meet that the hands stay in sight.<br /><br />It is the whole purpose behind shaking hands, we really have lost the finer details of armed interaction.Josh Kruschkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09288700371539530398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-8362231633484946692012-04-02T17:36:54.981-04:002012-04-02T17:36:54.981-04:00@Anon 2:04 -
Geeze, you're going to get your...@Anon 2:04 - <br /><br />Geeze, you're going to get your Cool Kid Card revoked :-)<br /><br /><br /><br />Chef: Never get out of the boat. Never get out of the boat. I gotta remember. Never get out of the boat. Never get out of the boat. <br />Phillips: What happened? How many is it? <br />Chef: A fuckin' tiger! <br />Clean: What? <br />Chef: A fuckin' tiger. <br />Phillips: Tiger?RWCnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-47240429820758944762012-04-02T14:44:36.521-04:002012-04-02T14:44:36.521-04:00One more thing - as much as i am not a "there...One more thing - as much as i am not a "there oughta be a law!" type person, i am truly growing tired of reading stories where people are shot by police officers because their "hand went down to their belt area". <br /><br />I've never kept track of my hands and how many times per day they go down to my belt area, but given as that's sort of their default position just by nature of my being a normally proportioned human being, I would guess it to be a lot. <br /><br />Pastor Creach here in SPokane was killed because he had the audacity to have a gun on his own property. It was in his belt, in full view of the officer, and after the officer hit the 72 year old man in the knee with his baton, he fell to the ground. The officer said that the old man's hands went to his waist (after being hit in the kneee with a baton, I doubt the old man was keeping track to be honest). So the officer ten ringed him. <br /><br />There really ought to be a law against shooting a person because his hands were near his belt. The officers have the advantage. Guns already drawn. Body armor. I doubt very much that we're talking aobut a huge amount of risk to them to wait one more split second to make sure he's not just adjusting his balls before putting a round through him. If you're so damned scared of the average citizen (and their dogs, too) that you have to shoot them over a hand movement, just to be safe, then find another line of work.Goobernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-18513330978452226392012-04-02T14:39:41.152-04:002012-04-02T14:39:41.152-04:00The more I hear about the Trayvon Martin thing, th...The more I hear about the Trayvon Martin thing, the more inclined I am to beleive that I probably owe Zimmerman an apology for my original reaction to this thing. <br /><br />Lesson learned. <br /><br />I keep thinking abotu the hypothetical you put up the other day about wading into a fight between a bunch of twelve year old girls, Tam, and your comment about the Kobayashi Maru. It fits perfectly in this case, too, and in any case going forward where a white person finds themselves forced to choose between saving their own life by using lethal force, or letting themselves getting beaten or killed because the downside to that is far less severe than having your family's addresses posted publicly with the expressed intent of ensuring that someone does them harm. <br /><br />THat being said, I think we can all learn something about this situation, which is to say that unless you have a badge and the qualified immunity that goes with it, you're best to hang back and/or retreat unless someone's life is literally about to end and you can do something about it.Goobernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-91156192809118463492012-04-02T14:04:44.645-04:002012-04-02T14:04:44.645-04:00@Tam
re your 8:40 comment. Do you mean:
"I w...@Tam<br />re your 8:40 comment. Do you mean:<br /><br />"I was raised to be a saucier. A great saucier." ??<br /><br />Because I don't understand how that relates.<br /><br /><br />858x70Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-29298835843075943512012-04-02T13:40:00.165-04:002012-04-02T13:40:00.165-04:00It's a real pity he didn't keep the police...<i>It's a real pity he didn't keep the police on the line because then we might know who initiated the confrontation.</i><br /><br />and there is a useful lesson for all, if you have to call the po-po, keep them on the line until you no longer need them.steve lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00665879963818545137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-75237626052239370342012-04-02T13:11:33.184-04:002012-04-02T13:11:33.184-04:00Have you not listened to the call or read the tran...<i>Have you not listened to the call or read the transcripts, then?</i> (Tam)<br /><br />I have to both, and I'd like to point out that Zimmerman's reply was "OK", and within a few seconds it sure sounds like he stopped moving and concentrated on his conversation about the rendezvous with the police on the way. And being worried that Martin, who he'd lost sight of, might be listening.<br /><br />I suspect that's why at the end he didn't agree on a fixed place to rendezvous but rang off and presumably kept on moving. It's a real pity he didn't keep the police on the line because then we might know who initiated the confrontation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-59863890353182460862012-04-02T13:00:30.267-04:002012-04-02T13:00:30.267-04:00Tam- yes, that has to be the standard. You have to...Tam- yes, that has to be the standard. You have to see the gun. Or anybody could call up the cops and say "He's got a gun!" and then get them shot. The standard for officers should be HIGHER than normal folks. Just because I'm told so and so has a gun, doesn't mean they are telling the truth. I'm holding fire until I see it. I'll have my gun out, but I won't fire until I confirm not only they have a gun, but they are attempting to point it at me or somebody else. <br /><br />There is no defense to what those officers did, except for the public's misperception that officers can do no wrong, and except for blatantly murdering somebody. There is no reasonable man who would shoot just because they were told the guy had a gun without seeing it first.OtherWhiteMatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02821435348118258944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-3267559552084045412012-04-02T12:44:19.908-04:002012-04-02T12:44:19.908-04:00JimB,
My point about the "he reached for his...JimB,<br /><br />My point about the "he reached for his waistband" comment is that pulling up your pants and wearing a belt might save your life.Leatherwinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11490062287496074480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-88582630367219249602012-04-02T12:12:18.512-04:002012-04-02T12:12:18.512-04:00JimB,
If you've been told someone had a gun, ...JimB,<br /><br />If you've <i>been told someone had a gun</i>, are you going to wait until you get a good look at it pointing at you before you shoot?<br /><br />That goes right to the reasonable man doctrine.Tamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-15345712391752690342012-04-02T12:05:10.874-04:002012-04-02T12:05:10.874-04:00For those of you out there who always wondered how...For those of you out there who always wondered how a card-carrying Communist like Lee Harvey Oswald was magically transformed into a Right-Wing Death Beast and tool of the military-industrial complex, take notes. We're witnessing the process in real time.mongo78noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-788909430957253662012-04-02T12:01:09.176-04:002012-04-02T12:01:09.176-04:00Tam -
"By calling, giving a description, wai...Tam -<br /><br />"By calling, giving a description, waiting for the heat to show, and then saying "He went that-a-way!", he would have totally discharged his neighborhood watch duties."<br /><br />So, what do think his duties as a neighborhood watch intell. You can't watch what you loose sight of. (And Yes I acknowledge you have sad that he was probable just following to keep an eye on him. But in this you seem to be implying that he should of known that the best option was to just wait for the cops.)<br /><br />"Joseph said...<br />Much like a pedestrian crossing a busy intersection, just because you have the right of way, doesn't make it worth stepping off the curb."<br /><br />"Tam said...<br />Joseph,<br /><br />Thank you for summing up in a sentence what I've been fumbling around for whole paragraphs trying to say."<br /><br />So, should we or should we not take the time to try to defend our life and property. There are no guaranties in life that the actions we take will lead to the results that we seek. The sentament in these comments seem to me to be it's not always worth practicing Self-defense, but when do we figure this out before or after the fact. <br /><br />Ok, the everyone assuming coment was a little broad, mostly directed at the Media coverage (which I didn't make clear) and a setup for the following two sentences and the next pargraph.<br /><br />"Jesus Christ on a turbocharged motorbike! Is there an echo in this place, or what? I've only been saying that for a frickin' week now." - Tam<br /><br />I didn't write this post. Just because the media acts the jackass doesn't mean we have to respond to it.Josh Kruschkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09288700371539530398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-32061893095059204942012-04-02T11:52:38.077-04:002012-04-02T11:52:38.077-04:00More Dispelling the Gospel. Zimmerman weighs 170 p...More <a href="http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2012/04/is-the-ny-times-breaking-news-or-breaking-wind.html" rel="nofollow">Dispelling the Gospel</a>. Zimmerman weighs 170 pounds, barely 20 more than Travyon did, not 100 lbs heavier according to the Media.<br /><br />It's getting to the point where if I see an ad in the paper for a sale at Penny's, I call to confirm it first.Robb Allenhttp://blog.robballen.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-29410784662111934202012-04-02T11:46:43.546-04:002012-04-02T11:46:43.546-04:00"McDade was said to have moved his hand towar..."McDade was said to have moved his hand towards his waistband, which provoked the police officer to shoot".<br />All I get out of this is the Police always have a good excuse... I wonder how it would have worked for Zimmerman... He went for his waitband so I shot him>>>JimBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05200736126653935817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-58154508598761163412012-04-02T11:33:52.916-04:002012-04-02T11:33:52.916-04:00Brad K.,
"Did Zimmerman believe the police w...Brad K.,<br /><br />"Did Zimmerman believe the police were not on the way?"<br /><br />No. Part of the discussion was where he should meet the officer.<br /><br />Have you not listened to the call or read the transcripts, then?Tamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-34461518167460426132012-04-02T11:26:34.817-04:002012-04-02T11:26:34.817-04:00For those that consider this incident a failure of...For those that consider this incident a failure of "Stand Your Ground" law, one quip.<br /><br />"When seconds count, the cops are minutes away."<br /><br />I thought the 911 dispatcher forgot to mention to Zimmerman -- "We are on the way. We will take care of it."<br /><br />I figure that getting folks out for Neighborhood Watch only occurs in neighborhoods with an ongoing problem. The kind of problems that the police haven't taken care of. The Watch, in theory, should be spotters and inform the police of problems, then let "justice" take it's course.<br /><br />Walking (or driving) through a neighborhood with active Neighborhood Watch folk and signs should raise a yellow flag for anyone, resident or not, that there are problems and people are watchful and suspicious of outsiders and of "suspicious" behavior. That is, keep your nose clean, respect the concerns of the residents, keep it polite and quiet.<br /><br />Did Zimmerman believe the police were not on the way? Was Miller doing something that raised above the Neighborhood Watch threshhold, or that Zimmerman might have been wary of?<br /><br />Why was Trayvon walking through a "gated community" at night? Would Trayvon, at any time, have stopped beating the old guy to death, merely because the guy wasn't African American?<br /><br />I dunno. It happened in Florida, I won't be setting on any jury or Grand Jury. And I don't see myself "gunning" for anyone. But setting one's self above the law, like the hate mongers, doesn't seem to settle any issues.Brad K.https://www.blogger.com/profile/18378344866487206569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-47359797323422879472012-04-02T10:47:18.149-04:002012-04-02T10:47:18.149-04:00Josh K.,
"So, Tam we should not initiate a c...Josh K.,<br /><br />"<i>So, Tam we should not initiate a citizen/ neighborhood watch and the time and energy, of that limited resource I call my life, that I exchanged for the dollars to buy my property is not worth defending?</i>"<br /><br />Only someone who either never read anything I wrote, has shockingly poor reading capabilities, or is being willfully obtuse could draw that conclusion from any of my posts or comments.<br /><br />"<i>Every one is ass-u-me-ing that Zimmerman followed to confront, it is possible he was just trying to keep an eye on the kid Travon, Who the noticed Zimmerman and decided to stop and confront the guy following him and a confruntation ensued.</i>"<br /><br />Speaking of "ass-u-me", show me where I said that? I have frequently referenced that Z. followed to keep M. in sight. Anyone who says they "know" who started the confrontation is talking out their ass.<br /><br />"<i>But why are we arguing about this? This is between the state of Florida and the parties involved. This has nothing to do with us no matter what the media wants to believe.</i>"<br /><br />Jesus Christ on a turbocharged motorbike! Is there an echo in this place, or what? I've only been saying that for a frickin' week now.Tamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.com