tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post2505351394352424180..comments2023-11-10T04:17:00.492-05:00Comments on View From The Porch: Formative experiences...Tamhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.comBlogger88125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-16233126645930207322011-10-25T13:20:07.349-04:002011-10-25T13:20:07.349-04:00My Brother in Law shot his foot off 'cleaning&...My Brother in Law shot his foot off 'cleaning' a shotgun. I like to think I'm very careful.<br /><br />Three ND's in my 35 years of gun handling. First, I had loaned out an H&R Defender .38 and blanks to a theatre troup. I was tweaking the trigger after a reassembly. Somehow a blank round was in the cylinder.<br /><br />The last two were with Makarov ammo. I had some lead ammo that I didn't quite trust, and it fired on a touchy trigger. The last one was entirely my fault, a transposition of the pull magazine, rack slide steps.<br /><br />The bright side is, I was able to use the hole to route a co-ax cable into the kitchen for Television use!John Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04875185117306503147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-33385478705421201892011-08-26T16:42:36.991-04:002011-08-26T16:42:36.991-04:00A caveat:
I'm a mathematician--and so that mi...A caveat:<br /><br />I'm a mathematician--and so that might be a reason why it's not a big deal for me to assume that the gun is loaded, even when it's taken apart and in pieces before me. All I have to do is to accept it as an axiom, and everything else follows!<br /><br />After all, wasn't it the Queen of Hearts who suggested to Alice, that she believe in six impossible things before breakfast? :-)<br /><br />-- Alpheus, aka Epsilon GivenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-30103354793957384732011-08-26T16:40:38.784-04:002011-08-26T16:40:38.784-04:00In the case of dry-firing, there is a special &quo...In the case of dry-firing, there is a special "BANG" that goes "click". I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be considered a special "BANG", especially because, even after carefully making sure there's nothing in the chamber (or at least, we think we're being careful), the gun can still go "BANG" when we think it should go "click".<br /><br />Besides, there's a certain Taoist principle that there's a certain power in "nothing". Thus, I can say the gun is loaded, even when it is loaded with nothing. :-)<br /><br />(Does this mean that, not only do you have Zen against you on this issue, but you also have the Tao? Probably not... :-)<br /><br />In any case, I think that the mindset of "the gun is always loaded" is a good one--and it's much easier to say than "The gun isn't always loaded, but you should always treat it as if it were."<br /><br />(Come to think of it, if I weren't anonymous today, I'd be signing in as Epsilon Given, so I should sign my name off as that.)<br /><br />-- Alpheus, aka Epsilon GivenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-14974813496801620102011-08-26T14:58:34.080-04:002011-08-26T14:58:34.080-04:00But you can't dry-practice, since every time y...But you can't dry-practice, since every time you pull the trigger, the gun goes "BANG!"<br /><br />Unless there's a special kind of "loaded" where it doesn't go "BANG!" and that's the kind of loaded it is when you dry-practice.<br /> If so, you probably perform some function, like a chamber check, to verify that the gun is this special kind of loaded before dry-practicing (and observing the other three rules scrupulously while doing so.)<br /><br />Ask Clint Smith what Rule #1 is. (He'll point out that he painted the first sign at Gunsite. ;) ) <br /><br />I have no problem with the currently fashionable zen-like wording of Cooper's Rule 1, but I'm beginning to see the beef that some people have with it. It can encourage parroting. "Yes, I'm <i>saying</i> the gun is loaded, but I know it's really not *wink, wink* and so now I'm going to dry-fire..."Tamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-16896870469595737622011-08-26T13:48:36.023-04:002011-08-26T13:48:36.023-04:00Tam, you said this:
"It's a simple (but ...Tam, you said this:<br /><br /><b><i>"It's a simple (but deadly serious) rule: The Gun Is Always Loaded."<br /><br />So, do you check the chamber? Ever?<br /><br />Do you dry-practice? Function test after cleaning and reassembly?<br /><br />The four rules are handy guideposts for life. Where problems arise is when they get treated like some mantra that can be chanted to ward off the bad things.</i></b><br /><br />I'm surprised by this response! <i>Yes</i>, a gun is loaded, even when you dry-practice or after you re-assemble a gun. This is why, when you dry-practice, or test the gun after reassembly, you point your gun at a back-stop--i.e., something that can stop a bullet--before you pull the trigger.<br /><br />I, for one, would <i>never</i> dry-fire with a person as a target, or point a just-reassembled gun at a person, and then pull the trigger--but these actions are fine and dandy, IF your gun is unloaded--which it ISN'T.<br /><br />Indeed, there have been a couple of stories here, where someone was working on a gun, or dry-practicing, and had an unexpected discharge.<br /><br />A gun is ALWAYS loaded. Always. This is a VERY good mindset to have, because it develops a healthy respect towards these tools. Anything less than this, and you put yourself in danger of killing someone with a negligent discharge.<br /><br />-- Alpheus (who's too lazy to deal with the login headaches Google now inflicts on me, so I'm posting as Anonymous today).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-35555246695662166442011-08-22T13:27:07.746-04:002011-08-22T13:27:07.746-04:00Warning not heeded:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011...Warning not heeded:<br />http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/22/police-woman-fatally-shot-at-pennsylvania-gun-shop/?test=latestnewsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-61810248196639228642011-08-17T20:35:40.748-04:002011-08-17T20:35:40.748-04:00My formative experience was dry-firing a Ruger P89...My formative experience was dry-firing a Ruger P89 that, unbeknownst to me, my friend had reloaded and set back down on the coffee table.<br /><br />Somehow, at the last moment, Rule #4 flashed in my head, and instead of dry-firing at Whitney Houston on the tee vee, I snapped at the ceiling fan blade and shot a hole in the ceiling.<br /><br />Probably kept me from killing his neighbor sitting on the other side of that wall.<br /><br />At Phlegmmy's blogmeet a few months back, someone took note of the fact that every time a gun was passed around, the new handler chamber checked at least twice, even if they just watched the last handler do the same thing.<br /><br />The important things are ingrained.Ambulance Driverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10175419709184526342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-31930459125245985332011-08-17T18:18:12.548-04:002011-08-17T18:18:12.548-04:00I had the Ammo Fairy come and pay me a visit. Yes...I had the Ammo Fairy come and pay me a visit. Yes, Virginia, the Ammo Fairy <i>is</i> real.<br /><br />I had been checking out a buddy's new acquisition, his house gun that lived in the living room.<br /><br />I cleared it, and dry fired it. While he went to go put a tea kettle on, I placed the (still unloaded gun) back on the shelf while I took my coat off, turned around, and laid it across the back of the chair.<br /><br />Turned back around, picked up gun, racked slide to cock the striker, pointed it at the floor, and tried out that nice crisp trigger one last time.<br /><br />I was rewarded with a nice, crisp noise.<br /><br />It seems that when I turned around for just a few seconds, he decided to stick the magazine back in, so he didn't forget after brewing tea. He preferred that the house gun stay chamber empty, figuring that under the circumstances, that extra step added more safety than it cost him in speed.<br /><br />Shag carpet + slab foundation + smoothbore muzzleloading hunter = very quiet footsteps. Six feet away, I did not hear him come back or the magazine click home over the evening news.Geodkythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09328915597574377444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-77043863915938068132011-08-17T12:05:19.306-04:002011-08-17T12:05:19.306-04:00Found you thru Instapundit. I knew there was a re...Found you thru Instapundit. I knew there was a reason why I too was OCD about checking chambers, and you just confirmed why. Plus (without reading any previous comments) I question why "Arthur" would load up any firearm he wasn't ready to use. Not smart in my book, and exactly why we should always be checking chambers. <br /><br />Stay safe.diamond davehttp://davestuff.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-82506807973204291762011-08-17T09:17:02.256-04:002011-08-17T09:17:02.256-04:00I tend to learn things the hard way, but sometimes...I tend to learn things the hard way, but sometimes the 'hard way' is not survivable. I usually check the chamber again after looking away for a few moments, even if the gun hasn't left my hands. Never trust a fart, don't stake your life on an assumption.ILTimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-17661550797360738022011-08-17T06:25:47.327-04:002011-08-17T06:25:47.327-04:00Daniel in Brookline,
"I'd think this wou...Daniel in Brookline,<br /><br />"<i>I'd think this would be standard at gun stores, but from the stories I'm reading here, it apparently isn't.</i>"<br /><br />It has been in every shop I've ever worked in since that day. Including that one.Tamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-16743037446883806112011-08-17T02:12:41.049-04:002011-08-17T02:12:41.049-04:00Instalanche!
Congratulations, Tam.Instalanche!<br /><br />Congratulations, Tam.Cond0011https://www.blogger.com/profile/04576204654819543273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-71368462272420213972011-08-17T01:32:54.301-04:002011-08-17T01:32:54.301-04:00When I pick up a gun, I chamber check it. Sometime...When I pick up a gun, I chamber check it. Sometimes I want it to be unloaded, sometimes loaded. I want to know what condition it is in. <br /><br />I keep every gun in the house loaded, because an unloaded gun is useless. It also tells me that ANY GUN IN MY HOUSE IS LOADED. If any gun I own is loaded, EVERY GUN IS LOADED.<br /><br />I just scream it in my head over and over again. In fact, my version of the Four Rules actually is 10 rules:<br /><br />1) The Gun is Always Loaded<br />2) Keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire<br />3) Always point it in a safe direction or towards something you want to destroy. <br />4) Know your target and what is beyond it. <br />5) The gun is always loaded.<br />6) The gun is ALWAYS LOADED.<br />7) THE GUN IS ALWAYS LOADED.<br />8) THE GUN IS ALWAYS *^%(%& LOADED!<br />9) THE DAMN GUN IS ALWAYS (&*^&(%( LOADED!<br />10) The gun is always loaded. <br /><br />Rules 5 through 10 generally drive the point home for novice gun handlers. Once they realize they have a loaded gun in their hands, people get pretty dang smart with it. <br /><br />-RobRevolver Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10745371069603827032noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-18850874270094848522011-08-17T00:38:47.752-04:002011-08-17T00:38:47.752-04:00I'm a retired AF cop, and have handled and bee...I'm a retired AF cop, and have handled and been around firearms my entire adult life...then I retired, and became a federal investigator. About a year ago, I went to interview the grandpa of someone being considered for a national security position. When I arrived, he had two S & W revolvers on his counter in his retirement suite. He was a retired Warrant Officer, and had obviously been around weapons before. He handed me the .45 and asked me what I thought. The first thing I did, was clear it, then handled it, and handed it back to him. He then picked up the .38, and waved it across the room, saying..."they don't make 'em like (BOOOOOOM). Turns out, he still had a round in the chamber, and he dropped the hammer on it. Fortunately, it exited his suite via an external wall, and didn't hit anyone. After I cleaned up the burn wound on his arm, we did our interview, bid adieu, and I sped to the local watering hole to calm my frayed nerves and ears...gotta love it!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-72652721440424518042011-08-17T00:02:53.677-04:002011-08-17T00:02:53.677-04:00When I was a teenager, a buddy and I went out plin...When I was a teenager, a buddy and I went out plinking with our .22s, and exchanged weapons. When we went home we each took our own weapon back. I had cleared his weapon, but he did not clear mine.<br /><br />At home that evening I cocked the .22 and aimed at a point on the wall. My younger brother reached over and put his hand over the muzzle. I said, "Don't do that!" and he replied "You would never have a loaded gun in the house," and he reached down and pulled the trigger of the weapon I was holding. <br /><br />The slug passed neatly between his middle and third fingers with minimal damage, and scared us both shotless.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-71180185892517651732011-08-16T23:55:06.903-04:002011-08-16T23:55:06.903-04:00I'm very lucky; never had an accidental discha...I'm very lucky; never had an accidental discharge. I had a close call or two, but no more than that.<br /><br />I have become fond of the gun discipline at a store I've visited. Ask to take a look at a weapon; it will be handed to you OPEN, so that it can't fire and it's obvious to everyone who looks that it's unloaded. Once, I picked one up (and checked it myself, natch) and worked the action a few times... then carefully placed it back down on the counter. The store clerk immediately picked it up, opened it again, and set it back down, all without a pause in the conversation. I never forgot it.<br /><br />I'd think this would be standard at gun stores, but from the stories I'm reading here, it apparently isn't.<br /><br />I also learned at this store that, if I want to check the sights, (a) I obey Rule 2 and make damn sure I'm pointing it in a safe direction, and (b) I make sure it's open and obviously harmless first. (So I sight down a revolver with the cylinder out, or a semi-auto with the slide locked back. So what?)<br /><br />And yes, The Rule is The Rule -- if the gun leaves your hand for a split second, check it again. As some have pointed out here -- even if it's been in your hand, and you let yourself get distracted (and might have "loaded it in your sleep"), check it again. Let's hear it for OCD!Daniel in Brooklinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16296850357629131645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-24293828353997993852011-08-16T23:21:42.312-04:002011-08-16T23:21:42.312-04:00Thank you all. You taught me a lot!Thank you all. You taught me a lot!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-39915450598730605812011-08-16T23:16:52.872-04:002011-08-16T23:16:52.872-04:00In Germany in the early '60s, our battery was ...In Germany in the early '60s, our battery was in an old German SS barracks that had a basement with a 2-meter ceiling. We used it as an arms room. One day after returning from an alert, our colonel's driver brought his M1911 .45 back to the arms room and, as per regulations, supposedly cleared it, cocked it, pointed it at the ceiling and pulled the trigger. It sounded like a small nuke in that enclosed space and every weapon in the room was covered with concrete dust. I removed the pistol from the specialist (soon to be slick sleeves) and called the colonel. Within a few seconds, he was in the arms room conducting an inquiry among the deaf artillerymen. He asked his driver to show him exactly what happened. You guessed it! After another loud noise and much dust, a second hole magically appeared in the ceiling. True Story.Old Country Boynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-8317570612357763752011-08-16T23:15:47.000-04:002011-08-16T23:15:47.000-04:00"....If the bolt is open, it's not going ..."....If the bolt is open, it's not going to fire, even if there is a round in the chamber. Especially if your pinky is in the way. If, by some miracle, it does fire with the bolt open, I seriously doubt it will be able to push the bullet out of the barrel ......"<br /><br />At least one person has died in those circumstances. The bullet didn't go anyplace but the case shot backwards out the back of the receiver and into an innocent passing by. Of course it takes some work to fire the primer in such circumstances but it has happened. The top half only of a Luger and a few other bits and pieces of other firearms can fire when partially disassembled too.clark myershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04087642063181620051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-34663513581047736082011-08-16T22:20:18.072-04:002011-08-16T22:20:18.072-04:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-39779740749078638842011-08-16T22:02:27.133-04:002011-08-16T22:02:27.133-04:00And people wonder why I am so anal on that. When ...And people wonder why I am so anal on that. When I was looking at an AR -15 a few months ago I noticed when the young man (looked early 20's/college age) was handing me the rifle with the bolt closed. I asked him how long he had been working with guns and he said he had been hunting for over 15 years. I locked the bolt back, checked the chamber and handed it over with the open breech towards him so he vould see it.<br /><br />"That is how you hand a rifle to a man..."<br /><br />Dom't think he got it...and I think he was a little annoyed I told him. But hey man, a quarter century some good men learned me that!Mike Thiachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02929567856363413549noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-11850758657344602852011-08-16T21:38:24.047-04:002011-08-16T21:38:24.047-04:00Dandapani,
Don't let robot rules replace usin...Dandapani,<br /><br />Don't let robot rules replace using your brain. Safety is not a mantra you can chant.Tamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-89695261547795844072011-08-16T21:35:42.694-04:002011-08-16T21:35:42.694-04:00I once offended an gun shop employee who took a gu...I once offended an gun shop employee who took a gun out of the case for me to handle. He checked the chamber, then closed the slide and handed it to me. I took the magazine out, pulled the slide back, checked the chamber, let the slide close.<br /><br />He said, "I just checked that."<br /><br />I said, "I know, but I'm holding it now."<br /><br />Dann in OhioGod, Gals, Guns, Grubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18289354729286002247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-47933110507951844532011-08-16T21:28:00.584-04:002011-08-16T21:28:00.584-04:00No ND here yet, but my lesson from the mid-60'...No ND here yet, but my lesson from the mid-60's is this. At the time I wore a Colt Cobra snub at work. There was a youngster in the house, so I followed this habit: Unholster, open cylinder, drop rounds in hand, count six rounds, put rounds in pocket, count six empty cylinder holes, look through six all cylinder holes, put gat on top shelf, hang up pants. <br /><br />This worked as intended for about three years, when one morning I saddled up, pulled rounds from pocket, and there were only five. I checked the floor, rechecked the pocket, checked the other pocket, checked the last unpossible place it could be. I was not pleased when I found the sixth round had overnighted in the cylinder.<br /><br />I have never known what to make of this experience except following the Four Rules is much more than a slogan. And that looking is not seeing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-277475206254773972011-08-16T21:23:57.121-04:002011-08-16T21:23:57.121-04:00Saiga .223, first time on the range with it, when ...Saiga .223, first time on the range with it, when I pulled the trigger nothing happened. Muzzle pointed downrange (on purpose, thank you very much) when we dropped the mag, cleared the chamber and cycled the bolt...and the round still in the breech fired. That round we cleared from the receiver was a stray that had gotten jammed up and was keeping the bolt from seating all the way, but the first round in the magazine fed just fine (although the extractor couldn't grab it when the bolt was pulled back because the bolt never went all the way forward). When we took that stray round out the bolt was able to slide all the way forward.<br />Loud noise, surprised looks, no harm, good lesson for the day.Larryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11308171394825291900noreply@blogger.com