tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post2519984700682848282..comments2023-11-10T04:17:00.492-05:00Comments on View From The Porch: Overstepping bounds...Tamhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.comBlogger56125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-16591188484025256212010-09-24T10:24:28.896-04:002010-09-24T10:24:28.896-04:00Go listen to the 911 call, now that it's avail...<a href="http://tijil.org/Madison_5_911_call.mp3" rel="nofollow">Go listen to the 911 call</a>, now that it's available, and tell me just how pants shittingly scared the old lady was.Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12141654754595945677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-22396087098198828372010-09-24T09:08:20.930-04:002010-09-24T09:08:20.930-04:00More off-the-mark-snark...
Actually I said Fred d...More off-the-mark-snark...<br /><br />Actually I said Fred did his thing exactly right, 'course you missed/ignored that too (Sure did!). That pre-planned pre-announced picnic demonstration he linked was great too...a perfect educational tool without scaring the panties off the old ladies and endangering innocent diners by luring a platoon of "undertrained underbrained" gendarme into their little - what did you call it again - oh yeah, "pre-planned ambush".<br /><br />But run from your words and continue to obfuscate if you please, but the simple (and unanswered) question to you was and is:<br /><br />"Are you...saying this is a good and proper way to engender support for and further the cause of making the public possession of firearms normal in the eyes and minds of sheeple who have been conditioned their whole lives to regard their very static existence as an immediate threat to their safety rather than a tool to protect it?"<br /><br />As to the geography, you don't have to be stupid to know stupid when you see it, kinda like you don't have to be born a Rebel to play one on the toobz...even chi-town natives know that ;0)<br /><br />ATAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-78691614282592525332010-09-24T04:10:28.950-04:002010-09-24T04:10:28.950-04:00Strings,
Hey, AT is just busy telling you Wiscons...Strings,<br /><br />Hey, AT is just busy telling you Wisconsinites (you, Fred, G98,) how you should do things.<br /><br />It's funny, too, because he was just complaining in the same breath about the "non-natives" ruining his beloved Florida. Why, I bet they have the gall to come down there and tell him how they did things back home. ;)Tamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-13245941843063514482010-09-24T02:25:22.951-04:002010-09-24T02:25:22.951-04:00>And that's where the activism could be mos...>And that's where the activism could be most desireably and productively directed in Wisconsin, too.<<br /><br />And it was, for a good many years.<br /><br />We got CCW within one lousy vote of being law of the land. One person, flipping their stance when we went to override the governor's veto, is all that kept us from passing it.<br /><br />The following cycle, we missed by two. At that point, those in the lead decided we needed to quit until the political landscape changed a bit. Like the governor changing... which happens this November.<br /><br />Sorry man, but it bothers the hell out of me when someone who isn't here, and doesn't know the history, "speaks from on high".Stringshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17399293868413376397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-90935761945113778512010-09-23T23:41:25.891-04:002010-09-23T23:41:25.891-04:00Some guy, some chick, everything is really project...Some guy, some chick, everything is really projection innit?<br /><br />Like some of those labels you've been tossing around in an Uneasy Rider kind of way...Brady Bunch, hoplophobe, homophobe, racist...laughable but not really jocular and certainly not jugular wit by VFTP standards. Then I check the masthead and see that the muse is gone :O( and worse is replaced with a string of sour and dour and plaintive refrains.<br /><br />Understandable though; you've had a hard week, and I'm just here for the entertainment. Better times are coming for those that survive the bad ones. <br /><br />ATAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-54400192570245068742010-09-23T15:30:04.218-04:002010-09-23T15:30:04.218-04:00perlhaqr,
Oh, Rosa, get to the back of the bus. Y...perlhaqr,<br /><br />Oh, Rosa, get to the back of the bus. You're just gonna scare whitey!Tamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-27964960775672863822010-09-23T15:27:44.505-04:002010-09-23T15:27:44.505-04:00AT,
"Guess you missed it..."
Sure didn...AT,<br /><br />"<i>Guess you missed it...</i>"<br /><br />Sure didn't.<br /><br />Some guy named "Al Terego" said that was their cause, but he wasn't there, so who knows if he was right? Maybe he was projecting? ;)Tamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-42854282392044328482010-09-23T13:53:05.825-04:002010-09-23T13:53:05.825-04:00Some of us OC even when it's legal to CC becau...Some of us OC even when it's legal to CC because we're philosophically opposed to getting a permission slip to exercise a right.<br /><br />And is there some magic sense that other people have that lets them know when people are LEO? I've seen groups of cops in civvies out packing openly (and I only knew they were cops because I went up and asked, I was going to warn them that NM had a law against carrying where alcohol was sold in case they were from out of state) and that was in one of the most crowded restaurants in the city and no-one batted an eye.<br /><br />Some people don't like seeing "those queers" out in public. Other people don't like seeing "those gunnies" out in public either. But both are perfectly legal, and the rest of society is just going to have to adjust to seeing it in public.perlhaqrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01920117742664645165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-87610582883053704642010-09-23T11:55:48.818-04:002010-09-23T11:55:48.818-04:00"Depends on what you think "the cause&qu..."Depends on what you think "the cause" is."<br /><br />Guess you missed it:<br /><br />"...the cause of making the public possession of firearms normal in the eyes and minds of sheeple who have been conditioned their whole lives to regard their very static existence as an immediate threat to their safety rather than a tool to protect it..."<br /><br />YTMV.<br /><br />ATAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-55159120181906388372010-09-23T10:56:39.444-04:002010-09-23T10:56:39.444-04:00Here's an example of what happens in my area w...<a href="http://www.stevenspointjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=PluckPersona&U=1687a0c55ff4461eb1ade239d111c36e&plckPersonaPage=BlogViewPost&plckUserId=1687a0c55ff4461eb1ade239d111c36e&plckPostId=Blog:1687a0c55ff4461eb1ade239d111c36ePost:93f542d6-8032-4ebc-8793-fdc6db8edaf6&plckController=PersonaBlog&plckScript=personaScript&plckElementId=personaDest" rel="nofollow">Here's an example of what happens in my area when a much larger number of OCer's get together and have a picnic in a city park.</a><br /><br />Scary right? And they even called the city and the police department repeatedly to say they would be there!<br /><br />My favorite quote from the article:<br />"So from the trenches of the UN-dead, the UN-dying, the UN-traumatized children and NON-cowering barefoot and pregnant woman, I’ll tell you exactly what happened at the picnic; from a single mom’s point of view.<br /><br />We ate hotdogs."<br /><br />as well as:<br />"It was the most respectful crowd I’d ever witnessed. There was a handshake and a welcome for everyone; even the one woman who stopped by with her son, full of concerns and questions about the group’s intentions."<br /><br />My noodly god better give them all DC charges! Handshakes indeed! That's as good as an assault!<br /><br />Unfortunately I missed the event, as the Army though I had better stuff to do that weekend.<br /><br />The Madison 5 event was not a pre-planned event to entice the cops into action. All of those involved have stated repeatedly they would have been more than happy to have just met up for a meal and gone on their way. They were not "wearing wires" but carrying their own electronic non-partial witnesses in the event that something like this happens. That's par for the course for a regular OCer, we shouldn't have to worry about it, but lessons have been learned in the past, and having a record of the event is invaluable in cases like this.<br /><br />The quote you mentioned is pretty much "out the arse." If I'm not mistaken, it is from the MPD PR guy, who spent a number of years as a journalist before being hired by the PD. Of course his officers were ambushed. His opinions are drowning in bias.<br /><br />The larger issue is a mayor, police chief, and numerous other politicians who are more than willing to trample on the peasant's rights.<br /><br />Crap, late for class...Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12141654754595945677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-619288287188914232010-09-23T09:46:14.274-04:002010-09-23T09:46:14.274-04:00"Are you - is anyone - saying this is a good ..."<i>Are you - is anyone - saying this is a good and proper way to engender support for and further the cause? </i>"<br /><br />Depends on what you think "the cause" is.<br /><br />I'd imagine these guys' cause was reminding the Madison PD about the state Attorney General's memo, and it looks like that's going to happen.Tamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-61745747897578658622010-09-23T09:40:49.400-04:002010-09-23T09:40:49.400-04:00Dudette: just following your lead:
"This was...Dudette: just following your lead:<br /><br />"This was a pre-planned (at least on one side) demonstration. The pistol toters were absolutely within the letter of the law. The cops walked right into that ambush"<br /><br />Did that come from the story, or like my quote, out the arse? More likely it comes from knowledge that the group are "activists" on the right side of the law and the wrong side of common sense and concern for anyone or anything other than their intended - and obvious - purpose.<br /><br />Used to be in Fla that the only legal carry was open; you rarely saw it but if you did, one guy going about his ordinary way would get some attention but not cause much alarm. If a group of five openly strapped-up folks - maybe one with his hand-cannon and a menacing glare for the old bluehairs as G98 so badly desires - took a table at the Red Lobster, that switchboard would have lit up like a Christmas tree, and it wouldn't matter if they "descended" from the ceiling, walked in as a group and quietly sat down, or appeared out of thin air. And the result would have been the same, too. More than a couple uniforms would respond and probably would have made sure there was no threatening activity (like those Cheesy cops should have done) and went on their way. Of course if a challenge or confrontation was desired by anyone involved, there woulda been one.<br /><br />But thank God, even in this sweltering hellhole that is in danger of having the majority vote dominated by non-natives, concealed carry is now the norm with some irritating exceptions. And that's where the activism could be most desireably and productively directed in Wisconsin, too.<br /><br />I would personally feel all the more secure if everywhere I went, regular folks had some leather slapped on their thigh...pretty unlikely some meth-head would try to shake down the patrons with all that iron on view. But taking this approach, and testing the law and the cops' knowledge of it by inducing confrontation when we KNOW many are afflicted by ignorance alloyed with a cop-ass attitude in a place where so many uninvolved parties would be at risk if the shtf? Have ya'll been READING some of the shit (LV, etc.) that goes down?<br /><br />The guys were there to get the result they got; it was obvious to you, to me, and I doubt you'd find otherwise if you asked the toters themselves. Successful operation, boys, but let's all be glad it didn't get to the next level. Are you - is anyone - saying this is a good and proper way to engender support for and further the cause? <br /><br />ATAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-70948442377670310212010-09-23T08:49:43.922-04:002010-09-23T08:49:43.922-04:00"They'd be shocked - and pissed - if some..."<i>They'd be shocked - and pissed - if someone didn't.</i>"<br /><br />Dude, when did you get into the mind-reading biz?<br /><br />I thought it was the Brady Bunch and other hoplophobes of their ilk who went into fainting spells about dangerously unstable gun owners.<br /><br />"Descending" into a restaurant? Seriously? Was it HALO or static line?Tamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-42208378952049853832010-09-23T01:01:28.519-04:002010-09-23T01:01:28.519-04:00So let me get this straight, Fred: you carry your ...So let me get this straight, Fred: you carry your weapon the only way you legally can, and apparently in such a manner as to never have had a problem...and let us hope that is at least partially because as I speculated above, any "concerned" callers are being calmed and assuaged by knowledgable 911 personnel.<br /><br />And even though you say you have never seen another individual in your state legally carrying, you disingenuously defend a group descending into a restaurant full of people who like you have probably never seen one let alone five ostentatiously strapped-up activists who have as their acknowledged purpose to invite and entice confrontation, thereby potentially endangering all of them without their concurrence or consent, as a group of like-minded folks innocently meeting up for dinner. They were shocked that someone called it in? Bullshit. They'd be shocked - and pissed - if someone didn't.<br /><br />I don't give a damn about their personal views and I'm sure they wouldn't care about mine. As for their politics, I don't care to know that either; if their judgement on that is as poor as it was in this incident, I don't think I want them on my side.<br /><br />Waiter! Check please! I think I'll get the fuck out of Dodge while these cowboys and Marshall Dillon work out who's got the law, common sense, and concern for the rights of others as well as themselves, on their side.<br /><br />ATAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-80249540330515429842010-09-22T23:33:48.701-04:002010-09-22T23:33:48.701-04:00AT, if you've got a better idea for those of u...AT, if you've got a better idea for those of us living in a state where the only option is open carry, I'm all ears. In the meantime, as long as I choose to ably defend myself in the state of Wisconsin, my gun will have to be openly holstered on my hip.<br /><br />As for calling it a "flash mob," 5 guys seems like a pretty miserable turnout for such a thing. Seeing as I live in a city less than 1/5th the size of Madison, it's well within reason to expect there to be more people with an interest in OC. But I guess the idea of a group of like minded individuals meeting up for dinner is hard for some to wrap their heads around.<br /><br />The point of the story is not whether or not Open Carry is or isn't a valid movement, or whether or not it helps or harms the political aspects of firearm ownership and self defense rights. The issue is with law enforcement illegally detaining and charging law abiding citizens, whether or not you or anyone else agrees with their political and personal views.Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12141654754595945677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-2990771274995905812010-09-22T22:10:14.560-04:002010-09-22T22:10:14.560-04:00A Madison, WI Alder(-woman) got an email today te...A Madison, WI Alder(-woman) got an email today telling her the po-po need to straighten up and obey the law. Her response: <br /><br />"While legal, it's inappropriate and aggressive to pack your little pistols in public places. We won't miss you or the childish displays of constitutional freedoms."<br /><br />http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?80869-Madison-PD-detains-and-cites-OCers-tonight./page16Bugnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-50560971498185686792010-09-22T21:32:01.241-04:002010-09-22T21:32:01.241-04:00Tam,
As a former San Diego police officer who als...Tam,<br /><br />As a former San Diego police officer who also worked for the California Highway Patrol, an officer is expected to use discretion. He is _not_ required to enforce all laws. That is one of the reasons I got out of law enforcement: too many officers being trained who believe the job is simply "Law Enforcement" and not keeping the peace.<br /><br />In our academy at San Diego, we were taught not only to use discretion in our job, but to enforce the SPIRIT of the law, _not_ the LETTER of the law. Of course this was thirty years ago, and obviously times have changed. We no longer have many officers who are peacekeepers (are those few who keep the peace now called Oath Keepers?) Now we have obviously brainwashed individuals who think they must enforce _all_ the laws. <br /><br />Tgace may have his heart in the right place, but he is unaware of the fact that he has been taught improperly. He does not sound like he understood what oath he was taking when he swore to uphold and defend the Constitution.Reg Tnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-44919776702465995602010-09-22T21:15:12.440-04:002010-09-22T21:15:12.440-04:00On the evidence, Wisconsin most certainly IS a pol...On the evidence, Wisconsin most certainly IS a police state.marinerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03435598676103731157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-41486579533910127962010-09-22T21:11:00.858-04:002010-09-22T21:11:00.858-04:00How the freaking hell this is helpful to the cause...How the freaking hell this is helpful to the cause of making the public possession of firearms normal in the eyes and minds of sheeple who have been conditioned their whole lives to regard their very static existence as an immediate threat to their safety rather than a tool to protect it, I will never fucking know.<br /><br />Yeah, let's scare and threaten some "grannies"; they're the problem, not the jerked-up politics that is preventing proper protective carry. Worse, let's hold us some flash mobs open-carrying in a place where Fred says he oc's and has *never* seen anyone else do so. That way, instead of never encountering a problem like him because any scared grannies calling it in are told that if the guy is acting normal and going about his business then's he's good, we can guarantee (pre-planned ambush Tam said) a multi-unit response to a<br /> scared and ignorant old lady's panic call. <br /><br />And if one or more of Hometown's Finest is as ignorant as the old lady but unlike her is copped-up, strapped-up and backed-up, we might even get us a shootin'...but damn it, we are "absolutely within the letter of the law.". Well, maybe the father of whichever toter gets perforated - or worse, the father of a guy just trying to eat his cheeseburger who gets perforated - can get a blog. Or a nice settlement. Jesus Christ, ya'll.<br /><br />ATAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-17549854170011674452010-09-22T20:33:50.884-04:002010-09-22T20:33:50.884-04:00All of America is a police state,this needs to cha...All of America is a police state,this needs to change.If the cops don`t know the law they should be forced to get other jobs.Would you like fries (opps:apple slices) with that is about what they could handle.Derfel Cadarnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00904779790523776248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-29608538234128376082010-09-22T19:31:04.302-04:002010-09-22T19:31:04.302-04:00GEWEHR98 Make that four women. Kratz has taken a...GEWEHR98 Make that four women. Kratz has taken a "medical leave".KA9VSZnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-39417757233189454332010-09-22T16:59:48.167-04:002010-09-22T16:59:48.167-04:00Ancient Woodman.
Impressively Wrong.
If you hav...Ancient Woodman.<br /><br />Impressively Wrong. <br /><br />If you have a better solution then settling legal issues in court, I'm all ears. <br /><br />PD's that can't play by the rules should suffer in court. It's the only peaceful recourse I can see.Heath Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16176723284131320506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-21749386794716293872010-09-22T16:49:06.569-04:002010-09-22T16:49:06.569-04:00So we're being softened up for the emerging po...So we're being softened up for the emerging police state. It's been going on for decades now. -- LyleAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-84537585830690411272010-09-22T15:53:38.656-04:002010-09-22T15:53:38.656-04:00Yup. Obstruction charges rescinded. Disorderly C...Yup. Obstruction charges rescinded. Disorderly Conduct charges filed instead. Now I want to go to East Town Culver's with Desert Eagle on thigh holster and make eye contact with all the cellphone-holding nervous grannies...Gewehr98https://www.blogger.com/profile/14440119702457734221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-64838782105695922922010-09-22T15:45:54.969-04:002010-09-22T15:45:54.969-04:00It's not intended to be straw-mannish, and I&#...It's not intended to be straw-mannish, and I'm hoping the answer is "yes".<br /><br />I personally consider "abrogating the right to keep and bear arms" to be closer to "put that man in the oven" than "write that man a parking ticket", but I may also be abnormal in that.<br /><br />What I was curious about is where tgace stands on the subject of gun rights, and if he stands anywhere near I do, how he squares that with "just doing his job".<br /><br />And he's the one that asked me if I thought he should decide which laws to enforce. My answer is "yes", and I hope his is too.perlhaqrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01920117742664645165noreply@blogger.com