tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post2194508019979176958..comments2023-11-10T04:17:00.492-05:00Comments on View From The Porch: The Uplifters are at it again.Tamhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.comBlogger48125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-18820254705457553302009-10-30T01:50:37.912-04:002009-10-30T01:50:37.912-04:00Sorry, Tam. For once, I failed to read the origina...Sorry, Tam. For once, I failed to read the original article. I did not realize the ban included bars. That IS stupid. Smoking and drinking go together. I've been aware of that fact for my whole life. Funny thing is, that's about the only place I can tolerate breathing cigarette smoke for any length of time. For some reason, alcohol seems to moderate my Nicotine allergy.Willnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-44077675034181361272009-10-29T21:01:35.754-04:002009-10-29T21:01:35.754-04:00Article on my blog that is related (sorta). Does a...Article on my blog that is related (sorta). Does a landlord have the right to ban firearms in his/her apartments? Tennessee AG says YES.<br /><br />I agree. He owns the property, the tenant is a renter. They have the choice to rent form him or not. Similarly, I would support a ban on smoking in apartments. Its private property. The landlord gets to set the rules.B https://www.blogger.com/profile/10586046436233366155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-66619462265069622842009-10-29T06:38:53.969-04:002009-10-29T06:38:53.969-04:00"Still, my point is that smokers rights to pu..."<i>Still, my point is that smokers rights to put that stuff in their own lungs should not include the right to inflict it on my lungs. Breathing is not optional.</i>"<br /><br />And yet I betcha you own a gasoline lawnmower, so we'll agree that your view of which carcinogens and pollutants it's okay to emit and which are icky is pretty flexible.<br /><br />Look, Will, I haven't even smoked inside my own home for a decade now. I don't mind stepping outside for a cigarette. However sometimes I like to sit there and sip a beer and read a book while smoking. There are vanishingly few places left to do this in town, all of them bars off limits to minors, and now the whiny health nazis want to take those away, too. Gosh, why ever would I be pissed about that?Tamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-3353733187230498252009-10-28T17:13:48.062-04:002009-10-28T17:13:48.062-04:00elmo,
I really wasn't thinking only of res...elmo,<br /> I really wasn't thinking only of restaurants, just of public smoking in general. I used the restaurant to set up the scenario of people introducing drugs into something you are going to consume. While you have to eat, you don't have to do it in public, of course. Unfortunately, not much choice when it comes to breathing.<br /><br /> Still, my point is that smokers rights to put that stuff in their own lungs should not include the right to inflict it on my lungs. Breathing is not optional.Willnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-69447649794217466392009-10-28T15:59:02.605-04:002009-10-28T15:59:02.605-04:00I actually gotta disagree with you, Will. Your ex...I actually gotta disagree with you, Will. Your examples are all of people whose actions have an effect on people outside their own property, while a restaurant owner deciding to allow smoking affects you only if you choose to _enter_ his property. It seems like you're thinking of a restaurant as a public space like a sidewalk or town square, when it's actually more like your living room. If you choose to let people come into your home so you can sell them things, it's your call whether they can blast loud music, strut around naked, use your indoor shooting range, or smoke. Why are the standards different when your property's downtown? <br /><br />I get the frustration; you and I feel like we have no restaurant options in places where everybody allows smoking. Thing is, we have no inalienable right to restaurants. If we don't like what the market has to offer, we can bring our own alternative to market or do without. It isn't really the place of government to mandate that businessmen offer us the service we want the way we want it.elmo iscariothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14710846725911318970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-42902187884849371342009-10-28T15:46:19.598-04:002009-10-28T15:46:19.598-04:00elmo, good thing you put your disclaimer at the be...elmo, good thing you put your disclaimer at the beginning, instead near the end AS I DID. Appears that the name calling attackers only read the first paragraph or two, and then skim the rest. Typically, the same types don't bother to read all the prior posts before opening their mouths.<br /><br />As I recall, the proper way that rights are outlined is: your rights have no limits UNTIL they begin to infringe on my rights.<br /><br />example: Your new next door neighbor decides that he is going to use his back yard to target practice. With his .500 S&W. You have a yard full of kids. Very noisy, somewhat hazardous. Where do your rights begin?<br /><br />Or this: Your neighbor across the street is deaf. He has a hotrod with a monster motor, 1400hp on alky. He runs open headers, because he likes to feel the exhaust. He also has a 5000watt stereo in the car and house that he plays at max because he wants to feel the music. He works on call, so he comes and goes at all hours day and night. His deaf friends come and go with their hotrods, so sometimes you hear multiple engines running. He also works on his dragster, 6000hp. You go over to complain about the noise, he hands you a card that says "fuck off or move". Your house feels like an earthquake is in process. The cops suggest earplugs or muffs. Now what?Willnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-65744576123206910342009-10-28T10:56:17.190-04:002009-10-28T10:56:17.190-04:00...a mojority...
Which sounds like the swingin&...<i>...a mojority...</i> <br /><br />Which sounds like the swingin'est consent-based system of government this side of 1973.elmo iscariothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14710846725911318970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-12058486748209925292009-10-28T10:51:20.562-04:002009-10-28T10:51:20.562-04:00I don't really know whether it's a good id...I don't really know whether it's a good idea to wade into this one, and in any case, I wanna throw out some disclaimers first: I believe in limited government. I don't believe in government telling property owners what they can and can't do on their property. If you wanna smoke, it's none of my damned business (just like whether you wear a seatbelt or helmet). Even though I love the effect smoking bans have on my life (I remember when even asking for the "no smoking" section was a crapshoot as to whether they'd put you on one side of an imaginary line, three feet from a table full of smokestacks), but have to reluctantly oppose them on principle; the owner's property rights trump my imagined right to have my preferences met in somebody else's space. <br /><br />That said, lighting up a cigarette in a room full of strangers is damned rude, and the fact that smokers have grown up feeling entitled to indulge any time they want doesn't change that. There are plenty of things that're fun and rewarding (like blasting Rammstein, furiously masturbating, and parading around in leather thongs) that shouldn't be enjoyed in a crowded restaurant. Cigarettes stink like crazy (seriously--I _like_ tobacco, but have no idea how you can tolerate that cheap, dry crap ;) ), and subjecting rooms full of people to 'em every time you go out isn't a great way to win friends. <br /><br />_Yes_, it's the property owner's right to allow cigarettes, German metal, enthusiastic onanism, and fetish underoos if that's what he wants. And in a perfect world, the government wouldn't have anything to say about any of it, and people who didn't like it would go elsewhere. But we live in a world where people use their governments' authority to address grievances that don't pass strict libertarian scrutiny. In this world, pissing off large numbers of ordinary people isn't usually a winning strategy for keeping your rights untrampled. <br /><br />You have a fundamental right in this country to carry any gun you want anywhere you want, and many jurisdictions still recognize that right. But if you want that right to hang around as long as possible, slinging your AR to go see the kids' hockey game probably isn't the best choice. Lots of cities have fairly permissive demonstration laws due to the First Amendment but (to use a recently popular example) the Folsom Street Fair isn't gaining many friends outside the ranks of the already-faithful. If the goal was ever keeping smoking bans away, a bit of courtesy and discretion in packed restaurants would've gone a lot further toward heading off hardline none-indoors-never legislation. <br /><br />I hate indoor smoking but will defend a property owner's right to allow it. Most people, even in the US, won't. Saying "fuck you, I can do what I want" is most likely not the best way to deal with a mojority that votes and is pissed off by your behavior. I haven't been around the sun too many times, but for as long as I can remember "fuck off" has been the typical smoker attitude toward people who're put out by it.elmo iscariothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14710846725911318970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-39286635581350352432009-10-28T00:01:26.531-04:002009-10-28T00:01:26.531-04:00...and I thought the phrase was,
"PROMOTE the......and I thought the phrase was,<br />"PROMOTE the General Welfare", NOT<br />ENFORCE...?Georgenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-76230549311415522642009-10-27T23:19:54.391-04:002009-10-27T23:19:54.391-04:00"...customers who need to share their addicti..."<i>...customers who need to share their addiction with the rest of the world.</i>"<br /><br />Aw, Chris, you had me going there. I really thought I was reading an unbiased economic analysis until you accidentally Tourette'sed there at the end.Tamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-2673561874917201262009-10-27T23:11:22.992-04:002009-10-27T23:11:22.992-04:00"But once those areas became available it qui..."But once those areas became available it quickly became apparent that there are far more people who enjoy breathing fresh air than customers who need to share their addiction with the rest of the world."<br /><br />You prove my point. Markets decide better than governments.<br /><br />It's a freedom thing. Let the markets (and therefore the business owners) decide the course of action. If non-smoking works better, then it will thrive. If not, then it won't. <br /><br />If you understand this point, then you are most likely a conservative, small government advocate, if not, then you are most likely a liberal, socialist.B https://www.blogger.com/profile/10586046436233366155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-90215327113105756762009-10-27T22:41:44.879-04:002009-10-27T22:41:44.879-04:00"You've just had your steak brought to yo..."You've just had your steak brought to your restaurant table. As you start to cut, someone walks through tossing handfuls of methamphetamine crystals around the room, making sure to hit everyone's food and drinks. He takes a seat at a table in the center of the room, and continues to toss his drug around for the next ten minutes."<br /><br />You whiny little pissant. No one forces you to enter the establishment, nor eat there. You make the choice. Want a steak in a smoke free atmosphere? Go to a smoke free establishment. Can't find one that is smoke free? Must not be a market for one."<br /><br />I, also, thought that was a sound argument until I moved to a state with a "clean air" act. Then I observed something not considered before.<br /><br />For the first time in my adult life, I found I could eat out and enjoy the meal. No more need for takeout food. But I saw something else, also.<br /><br />Just across the river from the city where I lived was a similar city in a state with no anti-smoking laws. The restaurants there were free to fill themselves with cigarette fog to their owners' and customers' hearts' desire. But you know what? When the non-smokers actually were given a choice, when one side of the river had restaurants without smoke, the restauranteurs on the other side of the river suddenly found it economically advantagist to ban smoke in their establishments as well. <br /><br />As long as all restaurants were filled with smoke they could argue there must not be a market for non-smoking areas. But once those areas became available it quickly became apparent that there are far more people who enjoy breathing fresh air than customers who need to share their addiction with the rest of the world.Chris Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12730570977897344874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-47451865352372546222009-10-27T21:23:09.114-04:002009-10-27T21:23:09.114-04:00"Is it legal to smoke in a movie theater?&quo..."Is it legal to smoke in a movie theater?"<br /><br />In some places it is. I've been to a theater where you can smoke. And then there are drive-ins. I like to go to drive-ins for the fact that smoking is allowed (your car, afterall) you can bring whatever snacks you want, maybe a beer, and do as you please otherwise.oghttp://www.neanderpundit.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-41135317124703642182009-10-27T21:00:11.071-04:002009-10-27T21:00:11.071-04:00Mr B. made a comparison between choosing to enter ...Mr B. made a comparison between choosing to enter a restaurant and choosing to enter a movie theater.<br /><br />I have a question: Is it legal to smoke in a movie theater?Sendariushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13286039362709773644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-34868923608965385692009-10-27T13:17:49.323-04:002009-10-27T13:17:49.323-04:00hooray for sanity preserving itself for at least a...hooray for sanity preserving itself for at least a day.<br /><br />Ah, smokers. The class of people that it's politically correct to hate for making a personal decision.Calebhttp://gunnuts.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-44555821941473193092009-10-27T11:33:15.297-04:002009-10-27T11:33:15.297-04:00Oh, and one thing I forgot to ask. Is it a tight s...Oh, and one thing I forgot to ask. Is it a tight sweater?NattyBumpohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04407766541195013004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-32810591716400791842009-10-27T10:26:54.574-04:002009-10-27T10:26:54.574-04:00"...made Christmas Tree ornaments out of any ...<em>"...made Christmas Tree ornaments out of any legislators so overreaching in their..."</em><br /><br />I'm getting a little choked up. I thought that no one else had such...pleasant ideas about how to put to good use those parasites.theirritablearchitecthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04105315709746689270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-18345774246359251242009-10-27T10:26:03.902-04:002009-10-27T10:26:03.902-04:00Yes, constitutionally-limited government in operat...Yes, constitutionally-limited government in operation here. Health and safety regulations are within the police powers of the states. <br /><br />The Uplifters that infest the Land of Orange chose way one of regulating places of public resort and dressing, Indianapolis chose differently.<br /><br />It's almost like no one is going to give us anything; we have to work at it.<br /><br />Veeerrrom (my light saber, I am a Jedi Knight of my mom's basement), verrrom . . .<br /><br />Shootin' BuddyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-76176994919283479622009-10-27T10:08:34.656-04:002009-10-27T10:08:34.656-04:00I was thinking about establishing a constitutional...I was thinking about establishing a constitutionally-limited government with strictly enumerated powers, but I was told that it was the will of the majority that mattered, and that I should take my wacky ideas and go to Planet Kashyyk.Tamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-43925092564473179612009-10-27T09:55:33.984-04:002009-10-27T09:55:33.984-04:00Unpossible!
You mean you can fight the Uplifters ...Unpossible!<br /><br />You mean you can fight the Uplifters but freedom isn't free?<br /><br />It's as if you have to work or something.<br /><br />ARaaarrrrr (Wookie roar).<br /><br />Shootin' BuddyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-67260446294030529342009-10-27T09:50:18.986-04:002009-10-27T09:50:18.986-04:00Amazingly, 14-13 against. That was a more unexpect...Amazingly, 14-13 against. That was a more unexpected upset than would be an IU thrashing of 'Bama.<br /><br />I don't pass out pamphlets as often as I write them on the internet.Tamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-64088400559998151762009-10-27T09:38:37.609-04:002009-10-27T09:38:37.609-04:00What? No update? No report from the meeting room...What? No update? No report from the meeting room? No report from passing out pamphlets all day?<br /><br />And tell us what the vote was, Tam?<br /><br />Were the Uplifters victorious as they were in the Land of Orange and white suits and string ties?<br /><br />Shootin' BuddyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-6297961341205241062009-10-27T08:29:00.175-04:002009-10-27T08:29:00.175-04:00"And that way lies loss of freedom. You gotta..."And that way lies loss of freedom. You gotta take the good with the bad. Deal with it."<br /><br />Damned nicely put. Just for that, I'm never going to pee on your car.oghttp://www.neanderpundit.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-5375996062822637622009-10-27T07:43:58.840-04:002009-10-27T07:43:58.840-04:00"You've just had your steak brought to yo..."You've just had your steak brought to your restaurant table. As you start to cut, someone walks through tossing handfuls of methamphetamine crystals around the room, making sure to hit everyone's food and drinks. He takes a seat at a table in the center of the room, and continues to toss his drug around for the next ten minutes."<br /><br />You whiny little pissant. No one forces you to enter the establishment, nor eat there. You make the choice. Want a steak in a smoke free atmosphere? Go to a smoke free establishment. Can't find one that is smoke free? Must not be a market for one. Want one bad enough? Open one yourself. Perhaps your like-minded fellow citizens will patronize you enough to make you successful. or not. <br /><br />Much like a movie theater, you have the choice to enter or not. Don't want to see naked people or hear profanity? don't go to "r" or "x" rated movies. Your choice. Or not. <br />Just because you really really don't like something is not a reason for your government to ban it. Personally, I cannot stand whiny little shitheads who think that their personal preference is higher on the list than anyone else's, but that doesn't mean that we should shoot or incarcerate folks like you. <br />You fall into the trap of thinking that your choices, needs and wants are the responsibility of the government to take care of, not yours. You wish to see your choices and preferences made law. You suffer from the supreme arrogance in thinking that your wants are most high. Sure, you have a <b>Really Good Justification</b> for it. But in reality, it is just you stamping your foot and crying "because I want it that way!". <br />Sadly, it is people like you that are becoming more and more prevalent, leading things down the path that Kalifornia and Massachusetts have taken. <br /><br />And that way lies loss of freedom. You gotta take the good with the bad. Deal with it.B https://www.blogger.com/profile/10586046436233366155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-55605115212111132102009-10-27T04:38:33.550-04:002009-10-27T04:38:33.550-04:00Will,
there is nothing wrong with this picture. I...Will,<br /><br />there is nothing wrong with this picture. If you don't appreciate people tossing their drugs around, you are free to eat at another venue that prohibits this sort of behavior or eat at home.<br /><br />No, it's not a public business. The doors may not be locked, but that doesn't mean that you are a part-owner of the place. The public is invited, yes. You are free to decline that invitation. In fact, I'd encourage you to do so. I'm a non-smoker myself, but people like you are giving all of us a bad name. You want more considerate smokers? Lead by example and be a more considerate non-smoker: Stop asking people to use force to make smokers more "considerate" (hint: it's not considerate when it's forced) or give you the pony you always wanted.ibexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09226871117035630057noreply@blogger.com