tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post3621035218606608020..comments2023-11-10T04:17:00.492-05:00Comments on View From The Porch: Some more ruminations on the ammo shortage...Tamhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-63584395210295902012009-11-04T17:06:58.567-05:002009-11-04T17:06:58.567-05:00We can blame the ammo shortage to Mexico and their...We can blame the ammo shortage to Mexico and their gun laws:<br /><br />"Even though Article 10 of the Mexican Constitution declares the right to bear arms, it is currently illegal in Mexico for any civilian to own a fire arm of any caliber used, tested, or currently in use by the Mexican Government or Military.<br /><br />This limits a citizen to legally own a .22 to .380 caliber rifle or similar firearm without a full-automatic firing system.<br /><br />Ownership of any centerfire caliber designed for automatic or military rifles is forbidden."<br /><br />So the largest caliber Mexican citizens can only own is .380 and they are buying up the bulk.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-24423110896854109302009-04-22T18:30:00.000-04:002009-04-22T18:30:00.000-04:00About 10 billion rounds are sold annually in the U...About 10 billion rounds are sold annually in the US, and 20-30 billion sold worldwide, according to government statistics on the Web (most likely the DOJ Bureau of Justice Statistics).<br /><br />That's 170 billion rounds sold since 1992 in the US. How many of them are shot off each year? That is something I do not think anyone keeps records of. Anyone here sign off on how much ammo they pump down range? Didn't think so.<br /><br />Still, that's an enormous number. And that's only on a '92-'09 domestic timeframe.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-1951726121612822622009-04-22T18:21:00.000-04:002009-04-22T18:21:00.000-04:00I have to agree with the above anonymous commenter...I have to agree with the above anonymous commenter seeking to find out how much ammo has been socked away by Americans. I date all this ammo hoarding for "whatever reason" back to the first year of the Clinton Administration. <br /><br />In a way, have we right-wing gun nuts been stocking up ammo awaiting the JBTs for _seventeen years?!_ That must be an enormous amount of ammo. Billions upon billions of rounds, just waiting.<br /><br />The amount, which could only be an approximation, would be fascinating to know. Any thoughts?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-16732195226209419932009-04-22T12:34:00.000-04:002009-04-22T12:34:00.000-04:00G98,
"I talked to Dillon's human resources depart...G98,<br /><br />"<I>I talked to Dillon's human resources department a few weeks ago, and am trying to talk my wife into moving to Arizona, to better capitalize on their increase in business. They're swamped, and I'd wager Lee/RCBS/Redding/Hornady aren't hurting for business, either.</I>"<br /><br />No doubt!<br /><br />There's an ammo use hierarchy at work here: Gun Owner < Shooter < High Volume Shooter/Casual Competitor < Serious Competitor/GunGeek. Each of those categories has grown steadily in the last decade-and-a-half.<br /><br />Thank you for a swell post idea! :)Tamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-9803062123929143862009-04-22T12:00:00.000-04:002009-04-22T12:00:00.000-04:00Tam,
Depends on the shooter and their ammo needs,...Tam,<br /><br />Depends on the shooter and their ammo needs, I'd wager. Well, that, and the disposable income in their pockets.<br /><br />The group I hung with in my formative years were all IPSC/IHMSA/High Power shooters, ripping through ammo faster than Paris Hilton's thong collection, and they were almost to a tee reloaders, or scored their ammo from somebody who did. The IPSC guys were running Dillon 650s at a minimum, if not the bigger 1050s. I settled on a 650 myself, and it got quite the workout before weekend matches. <br /><br />If you're a hunter shooting one or two boxes/year for sight-in and thumping Bambi, you're probably ok with $1.00/round .30-06 from WallyWorld. <br /><br />I talked to Dillon's human resources department a few weeks ago, and am trying to talk my wife into moving to Arizona, to better capitalize on their increase in business. They're swamped, and I'd wager Lee/RCBS/Redding/Hornady aren't hurting for business, either.Gewehr98https://www.blogger.com/profile/14440119702457734221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-57714112937516328302009-04-22T10:58:00.000-04:002009-04-22T10:58:00.000-04:00Well......
I did manage to garner two boxes of Wi...Well......<br /><br />I did manage to garner two boxes of Winchester .380 at Wally World today. I would dare to say not many people in the country are gonna be able to do that.atlharphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02038518966004553345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-7751195174338636642009-04-22T10:36:00.000-04:002009-04-22T10:36:00.000-04:00"Mind if I cross-post it over to appleseedinfo.org..."<I>Mind if I cross-post it over to appleseedinfo.org?</I>"<br /><br />Feel free. :)Tamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-32664332188404243542009-04-22T10:31:00.000-04:002009-04-22T10:31:00.000-04:00"Joe and Jane Sofaspud are going to realize that t..."Joe and Jane Sofaspud are going to realize that they really don't need 10,000 rounds of Winchester .45 in the basement, and that minivan payment isn't getting any smaller. They'll sell it to Annie Appleseed and Ivan Ipsc and demand will cool down."<br /><br />Brilliant observation, Tam. Mind if I cross-post it over to appleseedinfo.org?<br /><br />RossRossnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-43324785864566059452009-04-22T08:42:00.000-04:002009-04-22T08:42:00.000-04:00ed foster: good story, but...
"...the track was r...ed foster: good story, but...<br /><br />"...the track was ripped up a while back, and the embankment turned into a yuppie bike path."<br /><br />"I settles down with the scope sighted Schmidt-Rubin 1911, and proceeds to put twelve shots into six and three quarter inches at half a mile."<br /><br />uh, just to be clear, exactly what were those 6 3/4" targets? :o)<br /><br />jtcthe pawnbrokerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16643081755036536592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-47709821783327362732009-04-21T23:40:00.000-04:002009-04-21T23:40:00.000-04:00I had some .45 ACP that I bought in the early '70s...I had some .45 ACP that I bought in the early '70s that was stored indoors at room temp in a cabinet. It was Remington silvertip as I remember. The whole box went boom with no problem. <br /><br />I had also hand loaded an odd lot back then. They all worked as designed too. All of my current Ammo is new or reloaded since 2000. I trust it. I still buy factory for personal defense...Fresh Ammo never hurts.<br /><br />If you are willing to buy on-line, Sportsman's Guide gets frequent deliverys in of a lot of calibers. Some of it is getting pretty old and some will be Corrosive. Others are new or reloaded on once fired cases. They tell you. Large round lots come in Ammo cans, and I add the small desiccant bag just to be sure.<br /><br />I bought up a lot of Ammo in the late '90s, so I am fixed for a while. <br /><br />Cottage Industry: A band of hand loaders with Dillon's and Lee's (and others) loaders joining up and processing all of that fired brass and selling into a hungry market. Well, in these times it is an Idea. My old gun dealer reloaded and supplied me with many a box of .357 MagMarchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12623619259294255298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-76003370757496422082009-04-21T23:24:00.000-04:002009-04-21T23:24:00.000-04:00What I'd like to know is how much ammo the public ...What I'd like to know is how much ammo the public has stockpiled in the last few yrars. It's got to be Billions of rds.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-62799558820937384272009-04-21T22:27:00.000-04:002009-04-21T22:27:00.000-04:00Shot half a box of Federal LWSCHP that was at leas...Shot half a box of Federal LWSCHP that was at least fifteen years old, stored in a garage in New Orleans (hot, humid) that went through Katrina (unflooded), but mold and more humidity came a'calling.<br /><br />Every round went bang.Davehttp://nocarmommy.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-76777916285582001622009-04-21T21:46:00.000-04:002009-04-21T21:46:00.000-04:00Folks, watch the dessicant. Factory ammo is loaded...Folks, watch the dessicant. Factory ammo is loaded at 30% humidity to keep the primer cake from crumbling. Too dry isn't all that good either.<br /><br /> Primarily, keep it at something resembling constant temperature. My cellar, down low and a few inches from the wall, stays close to 55-58 degrees all year long. No condensation that way, and everything is in .50 cal G.I. ammo cans.<br /><br /> I also had a lesson in what old ammo can do a few years ago. Eric Timrud, Gary Petersen and I were doing some 800 meter shooting on the abandoned railroad track in North Granby.<br /><br /> Sadly, the track was ripped up a while back, and the embankment turned into a yuppie bike path. Sic Semper something or other. Anyway, we counted off 100 rail sections and set up our targets.<br /><br /> That's 10 meters each, not 10 yards, as the rail was supplied by Krupp in exchange for half the railroad right-of-way. To this day you'll find more German names on one side of the tracks in the lower midwest, and mostly British names on the opposite side. Cute factoid.<br /><br /> Okay, I settles down with the scope sighted Schmidt-Rubin 1911, and proceeds to put twelve shots into six and three quarter inches at half a mile. Yes, I was feeling rather smug.<br /><br /> Eric had found a bunch of old 7mm Mauser, headstamped Remington 1900 and UMC 1902, and tried them out in his immaculate 1895 Chilean. Some went bang. Some waited a few seconds and went bang, some hissed or did nothing at all. The ones that fired split their necks and shoulders.<br /><br /> Undaunted, the Nookschottishe Norske pulled all the long 175 grain roundnoses, dumped the funny looking doughnut shaped powder granules, popped out the more or less dead primers, and annealed the case necks and shoulders by oiling them and holding them in a pot of molten lead 5 or 6 seconds each, then dropping them into cold water.<br /><br /> Reloaded with a factory equivalent charge of 4895 and fresh primers, the bugger settled down into prone with sling and proceeded to turn in multiple groups almost as good as my Schimdt-Rubin (8 to 9 inches typical). At half a mile. With the issue iron sights.<br /><br /> Read an amazing book called Rags of Glory by a South African named Cloejte to understand what it was like to be a British soldier facing Boers armed with that same rifle and ammunition.<br /><br /> Old ammo can suprise you, even stuff that has passed it's practical life expectancy.<br /><br /> During World War One, Paul von Lettow-Vorbecke manufactured fresh powder and primers in the middle of the African veldt, then used it to rejuvenate Mauser rifle ammo that had been salvaged from sunken German ships. An amazing general, and evidently a pretty fair chemical engineer.<br /><br /> And for those who don't reload, start!<br /><br /> The Lyman 30 caliber 173 grain Loverin bullet, cast hard (linotype) over 22 grains of 4895, shoots point of aim at 100 yards in my Schmidt-Rubins, with inch groups out of the 1911 rifle and 2 inches from the 1911 carbine and K31. With 3 more grains of powder it will do the same in a 30-06, all with M-1 carbine noise and recoil, at less than a dime a shot.Ed Fosternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-49796099219823867322009-04-21T21:44:00.000-04:002009-04-21T21:44:00.000-04:00Fancy, but too much trouble. Just use surplus amm...Fancy, but too much trouble. Just use surplus ammo cans with good seals. <br /><br />Insurance value in ammo cans is that when the JBTs con your wife into "checking" your basement they'll only find a gun nut who hoarded lots of ammo, and not a rigthwing extremist wacko homegrown terrorist with a basement full of pipe bombs and IEDs.<br /><br />Just a thought.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-67607561896873561252009-04-21T19:34:00.000-04:002009-04-21T19:34:00.000-04:00Long term storage of non sealed ammo:
Get some la...Long term storage of non sealed ammo:<br /><br />Get some large desiccant packs (some companies that specialize in overseas or crate shipping have them very cheap).<br /><br />Buy some large PVC pipe (4" or larger dia). Cut to a convenient length that's easy for storage.<br /><br />Buy caps for both ends of PVC tube, glue one in place with PVC glue and let dry.<br /><br />Drop desiccant bag into tube, fill with ammo. Put other cap on tube and seal with wax or silicon around rim of cap where it meets the pipe (but make it so you can scrape it off or remove it later so you don't have to cut the pipe open).<br /><br />Store pipe in cool dry place for the next 50 years, oh and don't forget to write on the outside of the pipe qty and caliber.<br /><br />Done.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-82487334698214775002009-04-21T17:46:00.000-04:002009-04-21T17:46:00.000-04:00G98,
"That's because while you were exhorting amm...G98,<br /><br />"<I>That's because while you were exhorting ammo purchases by the case lot, the rest of us were buying reloading presses...</I>"<br /><br />Are you kidding me? Ammo by the case was an EASY sale compared to reloading presses. I tell you true, I maybe sold fifty or one hundred presses of all varieties in all my 15 years behind the counter. Reloaders are much rarer than people who buy by the case lot, but both are minuscule compared to the larger population of "Average gun owners".<br /><br />Why would they reload or buy in bulk when they only shoot 500 rounds of centerfire in a year?Tamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-25460499260946495592009-04-21T16:51:00.000-04:002009-04-21T16:51:00.000-04:00The ammo my local small gunshop can get from Mexic...The ammo my local small gunshop can get from Mexico is good quality, but the price fluctuations are such that he doesn't bother with it any more. <br /><br />What may be $6. per unit one month may be $14 for the same unit the next month, then back to $7 the month after that. Hence, he seldom orders it anymore.<br /><br />Regards,<br />Rabbit.Rabbithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09924556230506190220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-35599758539869188632009-04-21T16:43:00.000-04:002009-04-21T16:43:00.000-04:00mrs. tam:
re contacting aar@uscca.us
be sure and...mrs. tam:<br /><br />re contacting aar@uscca.us<br /><br />be sure and check with mr. tam first. ;o)<br /><br />jtcthe pawnbrokerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16643081755036536592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-48370926326368985302009-04-21T16:16:00.000-04:002009-04-21T16:16:00.000-04:00Assuming the bubble ends on Dec 31, how long would...Assuming the bubble ends on Dec 31, how long would it take to get all stores up to pre-bubble (normal) levels?Overload in Coloradohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11277277751144486368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-29516286735026179402009-04-21T15:57:00.000-04:002009-04-21T15:57:00.000-04:00RE: Die Time .380 ammo shortage. While credit due...RE: Die Time .380 ammo shortage. While credit due to the "die time" scenario, you must remember that every manufacturer, their brother and a couple cousins introduced a .380 pistol in the past 18 months. Those little bastards are hot commodities right now, though that may be slowing with $1/round costs on the ammo, IF you can find it.<br /><br />RE: Production capacity How about foreign manufacturers, especially those from countries where labor is cheap and environmental regs are lax? Could they be the wild card?<br /><br />RE: Supply & Demand, I'd clarify that Supply is the same or higher, but demand has so outstripped the supply as to make it look miniscule, such that the Wal-Marts of the world appear to not be able to get any ammo.José Gigantéhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00808360534075501817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-9108843046443179162009-04-21T15:23:00.000-04:002009-04-21T15:23:00.000-04:00Great article. I posted this over at the OFCC Foru...Great article. I posted this over at the OFCC Forums. <br /><br />http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=30655FatWhiteManhttp://www.fatwhiteman.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-85156418357504695442009-04-21T15:18:00.000-04:002009-04-21T15:18:00.000-04:00Tam:
Thanks for the reply, ma'am. Most of the am...Tam:<br /><br />Thanks for the reply, ma'am. Most of the ammo storage is in the root cellar on shelves next to the wine and the homebrew. It doesn't get much below about 40F in there, and never above 80F. The humidity cycles between zero in winter, and ridiculously-high in summer. The attic is WAY too hot in the summer.<br /><br />Phelps: I tape a label to the back of each can (so I can see it when racked on the shelves) labeling caliber, type, make, quantity and date bought. That way I can be sure to use the oldest first. I don't bother with desiccant, since the only time I open them is to start using 'em, but thanks for the tip.Blackwing1noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-47289286184644143382009-04-21T14:09:00.000-04:002009-04-21T14:09:00.000-04:00"For fifteen years I tried to convince Joe and Jan...<I>"For fifteen years I tried to convince Joe and Jane Public to buy ammo by the case. I failed miserably."</I>That's because while you were exhorting ammo purchases by the case lot, the rest of us were buying reloading presses, whoring range brass, and badgering the local tire stores for wheelweights, skipping the whole retail ammo and excise tax thing. (Although Mike Dillon's kids should have their doctorate's degrees by now...) <br /><br />Mrs. G-98 won't let me walk through the ammo shelves in the sporting goods section of WalMart anymore - I laugh too loud. $30.00 per 50 rounds of .45 ACP when I can make it for $5.00?<br /><br />Oh.<br /><br />My.<br /><br />Gawd.Gewehr98https://www.blogger.com/profile/14440119702457734221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-52619019981870189602009-04-21T13:31:00.000-04:002009-04-21T13:31:00.000-04:00Re: storing ammo. If you have surplus ammo cans, ...Re: storing ammo. If you have surplus ammo cans, you are halfway there. Buy some commercial desiccant packs like these:<br /><br />http://www.dillonprecision.com/content/p/9/pid/25254/catid/19/Desi_Pak_2_ounce_bag<br /><br />Toss one in each can, seal it up. Scrub off the original markings, and write what is in the can on top with white marker, and put in behind a locking door for the next 50 years.<br /><br />If you open the can, it will be a good idea to put in a new desiccant pack. If you don't open it, don't worry about it.Phelpshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06270536870200063563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-90037069823502268352009-04-21T12:52:00.001-04:002009-04-21T12:52:00.001-04:00One thing you mised. :) Military purchases.. No, n...One thing you mised. :) Military purchases.. No, not just ramping up Lake City, but Foriegn Military Sales (FMS) to other countries. FMS dollars have to be spent in the US (for the most part). Last year, Iraq prchased about 12 million bucks worth of ONE style of match grade ammo. I don't have visibility on other purchases, but that has to be taking capacity down for domestic ammo production.<br /><br />And yes, folks are buying ammo in case lots when they find it. Our local Wal-Marts are getting ammo in, but it's flat disappearing as soon as it hits the shelves.<br /><br />Al T.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com