tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post371898780410980612..comments2023-11-10T04:17:00.492-05:00Comments on View From The Porch: It's hard to hear me roar over all the gunfire...Tamhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.comBlogger84125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-3963175392809596712011-06-06T20:35:16.759-04:002011-06-06T20:35:16.759-04:00And why is there such an industry-wide emphasis on...And why is there such an industry-wide emphasis on *cough* BIG BLACK guns??? :-)<br /><br />w/v: briouted - the brie was outed?NotClauswitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14358707844087117280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-80882937339179989062011-06-06T00:36:29.294-04:002011-06-06T00:36:29.294-04:00I too, winced they the mentioned the "Ammo Gi...I too, winced they the mentioned the "Ammo Girls". Had they said "Ammo Waitresses" or "Ammo Fetchers" I would have been fine.<br /><br />As one of the 40ish, round, white guys who was actually there, it was more like my daughter and her friends working at their first job as waitress or hostess at a restaurant then a trip to the nudie bar. <br /><br />Be that as it may, the kerfuffle seems to be about picture 11 in the flickr photostream. What no one seems to notice are pictures 16 and 27. Uniformly the guys (at least the ones I hung around with, sorry Tam.), to a man asked, offered and cajoled the "Ammo Waitresses" into shooting since none had ever shot before. I'm one of the ones that when to the LuckyGunner PTB and asked that the young ladies be allowed to shoot.<br /><br />Even though we are all knuckle-dragging neanderthals, we managed to project and impart the positive idea that "shooting is fun!" to four very nice young ladies and that hopefully they may seek out the opportunity to shoot again.<br /><br />We were also able to impart some pro-2A ideas as well, so that even if they chose never to pick-up a gun again, when they are in the voting both maybe they'll remember that "Shooting Was Fun" and vote accordingly. <br /><br />-Dave Liddy<br /><br />wv:anvetie - like a negative invite, when you are told to stay away from an event.Scout26https://www.blogger.com/profile/06463352978250511474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-58684545971591638762011-06-05T11:17:42.563-04:002011-06-05T11:17:42.563-04:00And here I thought all of us in the gunblogosphere...And here I thought all of us in the gunblogosphere firmly supported the right to bare arms. *snif*<br /><br />(I resisted making this pun for <b>daaaaays</b>, but I can resist no longer! :D )perlhaqrnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-25717915305830806952011-06-05T10:14:58.647-04:002011-06-05T10:14:58.647-04:00Tam, as I stated at Roberta's place, it isn...Tam, as I stated at Roberta's place, it isn't an issue that many people are missing your point. We disagree with you, for reasons we've all stated. You're so convinced that you're right and we're wrong (rather than any other possible explanation, which includes all of us being wrong, as I somewhat obliquely pointed out just a few minutes ago at Roberta's), that I'm afraid you're missing our points.<br /><br />It might be useful for all of us to walk off from the debate for a few days and then come back with a fresh perspective. While it's a bit esoteric, it also strikes me as relatively important, and we need to work it out amongst ourselves. But right now, nearly everyone is shouting and no one is listening.The Freeholderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09989697995675652792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-33072478086066441102011-06-04T17:57:17.302-04:002011-06-04T17:57:17.302-04:00"Only my personal policy of standing by what ..."Only my personal policy of standing by what I write and not deleting or editing comments has kept me from deleting or locking this farce."<br /><br />Only your personal policy of standing by what you write and not deleting or editing comments has kept me on (and occasionally under) the Porch. Thanks for that; anything else is would be an *actual* farce.<br /><br />Breda's original complaint was...shall we say "fallacious", and your original comments there gently illustrated why. <br /><br />Bearing in mind which of you has extensive knowledge and experience in the business and which is more of a...community organizer as it were, you shoulda stuck to yer uh, guns. <br /><br />IMO. <br /><br />ATAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-8634468062203373612011-06-04T16:05:55.150-04:002011-06-04T16:05:55.150-04:00"...but then close ranks to protect the "..."<i>...but then close ranks to protect the "sisterhood" even when the sister being protected is dead wrong</i>"<br /><br />If you think that's what happened, well, the NYT is looking for writers.<br /><br />Like I said <a href="http://mytumultuousadventure.blogspot.com/2011/06/angela-from-lucky-gunner-on-ammo-girls.html?showComment=1307206558249#c6881429207025856209" rel="nofollow">elsewhere</a>, if I'd known people were going to so resolutely miss my point in favor of saddling up their own hobbyhorses, I'd have kept my piehole shut.<br /><br />Only my personal policy of standing by what I write and not deleting or editing comments has kept me from deleting or locking this farce.Tamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-12382495577812649832011-06-04T14:36:32.038-04:002011-06-04T14:36:32.038-04:00Every get-together of this type I have attended ha...<i>Every</i> get-together of this type I have attended has been predominately middle-aged overweight white male. (That describes me.)<br /><br />The problem seems to be that the girls were <i>cute</i>. According to Angela from LuckyGunner, they were her college friends, wearing essentially uniform tops provided by LuckyGunner.<br /><br />One question:<br /><br />Would it have helped if the young ladies had been, well, <i>un</i>attractive?Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10324035824298948422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-42195897169308249822011-06-04T09:40:40.084-04:002011-06-04T09:40:40.084-04:00And with this one, comments here outnumber those a...And with this one, comments here outnumber those at Breda's and most everyone who cares has had their say.<br /><br />And what did they say? Well, according to one, I think it was Borepatch, they're about two-thirds in opposition to the original premise that the organizers either intentionally or cluelessly demeaned and alienated females...and contrary to Sabra's statement above, that includes quite a few secure, mature women.<br /><br />So what's a blogstress to do? Well some, like any old-style media wog, ignore the voice and will of their constituency (and even try to silence it) and tell them by God what their ignernt asses should believe...that's Breda's approach. Others acknowledge that everything is a transitional process and that when it comes to capitalism and profit, the market will ultimately force changes when justified by those forces...but then close ranks to protect the "sisterhood" even when the sister being protected is dead wrong, *as proven by the current market base and majority opinion*. That's Tam of course, and it is just as wrong for a preeminent gun blog as it is for the editor of the New York Times.<br /><br />How ironic is it that a commentator who ostensibly promotes equality of access and encourages participation by females instead criticizes and demeans a whole group of females who *are actively participating*?<br /><br />Great job turning a great event into a completely irrelevant firestorm that actually harms the purported cause, ya'll.<br /><br />ATAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-5965027191382573242011-06-04T02:46:07.090-04:002011-06-04T02:46:07.090-04:00I've seen many negative comments on the "...<i>I've seen many negative comments on the "ammo-girls" attire, but not one single serious suggestion as to what they SHOULD have worn?</i><br /><br />Y'know, it's really not the issue at all, but just for shits and giggles I will answer this question. The women should have been wearing the same sort of clothing as the men carrying out the same duties. There's no justification for women to wear sleeveless shirts & shorts to do the job men are doing while wearing polo shirts and pants. (And don't try pretending they were wearing anything other than what they were told to wear.)<br /><br />If the purpose of these women was merely to fetch and carry, then they would not have been assigned different clothing <i>solely due to their gender</i>. A large portion of the female population--and no small percentage of men, from what I've seen--takes issue with being told to do something simply 'cause of being female. And we're smart enough to see when that's happening. It's a small incident that happens to dovetail neatly into a much larger issue, and is being used as an illustration of such. Meanwhile, there are a lot of men who seem to really take pride in <i>not getting it</i>.Sabrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13746486966764162127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-9287018969296568232011-06-04T00:48:12.452-04:002011-06-04T00:48:12.452-04:00I've seen many negative comments on the "...I've seen many negative comments on the "ammo-girls" attire, but not one single serious suggestion as to what they SHOULD have worn? From what I saw in the pics, I'd guess the ladies were asked to wear something black and comfortable.<br /><br />wv:armorsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-30156632109337496942011-06-04T00:40:31.923-04:002011-06-04T00:40:31.923-04:00I think the real point here is that the 9mm only h...I think the real point here is that the 9mm only has stopping power in a sub-machine gun and if you guys can't agree on that then to hell with all you! (Come on Tam you know it was going to come to this sooner or later). Have a nice night! ;-)atlharphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02038518966004553345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-39385869649895867102011-06-04T00:17:20.521-04:002011-06-04T00:17:20.521-04:00Oleg, I think that's about right. I winced sli...Oleg, I think that's about right. I winced slightly the first time I heard "ammo girls" at the shoot and then sort of got over it. Delete that term and I think most of the problem goes away.Les Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03389811940518627023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-1805152666446995692011-06-04T00:08:14.135-04:002011-06-04T00:08:14.135-04:00But the idea that suddenly a bunch of us are all C...<b>But the idea that suddenly a bunch of us are all Cotton Mather when we point out that this was a missed marketing opportunity is just plain weird.</b><br /><br />I dunno, BP. I'd think are a <i>lot</i> of simple-minded people with that Manichean view of things; they just don't crap in the floor, pick it up & throw it everywhere at (real or virtual) friends' gatherings as we see here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-83304120830344084712011-06-03T23:48:32.399-04:002011-06-03T23:48:32.399-04:00My theory is that the only error Lucky Gunner made...My theory is that the only error Lucky Gunner made was to use the term "ammo girls". Since they had both guys and girls ferrying water and ammo, not emphasizing one set over the other would have worked to avoid controversy.Oleg Volkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06547911680603650247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-16241176369294642612011-06-03T23:43:41.939-04:002011-06-03T23:43:41.939-04:00Honestly from the description I was half picturing...Honestly from the description I was half picturing some trashy incident with some sluts in halter tops and short skirts going around bending over suggestively and shoving tits too close to faces trying to make the men blush. I can see how that would outright repel female shooters but looking at the pictures that's obviously far from the truth...they seemed to be dressed like I'd expect most women of that age to dress on a hot summer day at the range. I don't get why anybody other than hypersensitive feminists would get offended by that. <br /><br />I totally get that pink guns and bikini-gun-chick posters in gun shops are basically a negative. But don't bash the "boys club" too bad...weapons and the like are a manly thing, and always will be vastly male-dominated. Yeah, it sucks that most gun shops are terrible to female customers, and they shouldn't be.(and honestly as a man if I took the advice of the same problem gun shop employees, I'd have an equally shitty gun collection full of bubba'd out shotguns and super-low end ARs with NC star optics. And I know many men with this same exact plight, so again it isn't just women.) But the idea that it's all an issue of men needing to leave the man-stuff in their designated man-caves and accomodate women reeks of entitlement.<br /><br />Going in the that direction is quite a terrible slippery slope...for instance look at the fitness industry. A gym that has "something for everybody" is going to be a pastel colored den of yoga mats, loud pop music and 29.99 personal training/self esteem sessions with a small selection of weights in a corner out of the way somewhere. <br /><br />Sounds unlikely that gun shops will get this way, but if you went to a gym 60 years ago you'd say the same thing about that subculture...Dannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-76385518128560544892011-06-03T23:27:07.993-04:002011-06-03T23:27:07.993-04:00og, you're right. That guy's nametag does ...og, you're right. That guy's nametag does say Jake. I got him mixed up with Caleb from LuckyGunner (not Caleb from GunNuts). Corrected.Les Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03389811940518627023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-31289059034805401322011-06-03T23:18:24.006-04:002011-06-03T23:18:24.006-04:00Tam, I agree to disagree with you on this issue. I...Tam, I agree to disagree with you on this issue. I do however see the point that you are trying to get across but am not sure this incident is a good example of such a bias. Still, I enjoyed reading the post and comment's, in fact it was a really good read for me.Sport Pilothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04862280966739841769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-63556061559317912672011-06-03T23:09:27.851-04:002011-06-03T23:09:27.851-04:00Breda's most recent reply to a commenter who b...Breda's most recent reply to a commenter who believes she was unfair in her criticisms:<br /><br />"But of course, you're more than welcome to not read my blog."<br /><br />By golly now she's got it...because she is in turn welcome to not attend this company's promotional events or buy/use/recommend their products.<br /><br />And that - the free market at work - is really the whole of the thing.<br /><br />But is her reader also welcome to publicly contemplate a baser motive for her bad review? That seething green monster can really be a bitch.<br /><br />ATAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-5336869464756542462011-06-03T21:50:20.245-04:002011-06-03T21:50:20.245-04:00Calebs nametag says "Jake"Calebs nametag says "Jake"oghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07551049745184408924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-48824301868019242542011-06-03T21:07:29.863-04:002011-06-03T21:07:29.863-04:00The caption of the picture at the top of this page...The caption of the picture at the top of this page http://www.lesjones.com/2011/06/02/luckygunner-shoot-pictures/<br /><br />is "Caleb and the LuckyGunner Ammo Girls"Rob Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15604826633798229422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-59573293233717790172011-06-03T21:02:17.896-04:002011-06-03T21:02:17.896-04:00Rob K,
"My wife's comment on the picture...Rob K,<br /><br />"<i>My wife's comment on the picture of Caleb with the 4 "ammo waitresses"...</i>"<br /><br />Huh? Caleb wasn't there.Tamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-77131089525406266422011-06-03T20:15:19.205-04:002011-06-03T20:15:19.205-04:00So, how SHOULD the firearms industry market to wom...So, how SHOULD the firearms industry market to women? Why did (apparently) more women start riding motorcycles? Did Harley, Honda, Kawasaki, <i>et al</i> come up with a magic formula, or did societal norms change to make it more acceptable for women to do this? Will the same happen with women and guns, <i>i.e.</i> will they become shooters despite pink pistols and "the boy's club"? Will more female customers give the industry actual experience with that market segment that will improve their strategy? "Gee whiz, we sell a lot of guns to women these days, but none of them buy those pink guns. Hmmm... Maybe our marketting strategy has been wrong. Maybe... Naw! Have we completely misunderstood this market segment???"<br /><br />With regard to the "gunbunnies"*, is it perhaps a good idea to have female salespeople to sell to female customers?<br /><br />----<br /><br />(*) A term we used to apply to cannon crewmembers, aka "cannon cockers", who tend to be big, sweaty individuals with REALLY big guns and whose idea of target practice is shooting at a truck ten miles away.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-41505475048502416102011-06-03T20:14:25.539-04:002011-06-03T20:14:25.539-04:00"Look, I'm not the one printing up all th..."Look, I'm not the one printing up all these firearms industry magazines that are all butthurt about "Why won't you cousin-humping rednecks vote for..." er, sorry, I meant "What can we do to encourage more novice women to get interested in shooting?"<br /><br />You are correct... unassailably.<br /><br />But hypocrisy and stupidity are such a minor sins. Hypocrites get box seats looking down on the first circle of hell. Underlying behavior is much more at issue.<br /><br />"What can we do to encourage more novice women to get interested in shooting?"<br /><br />...by promoting the self defense ethic and our 2nd amendment rights..not by removing Snap-On calendars from the auto repair shop.<br /><br />BTW, I thought the Ammo-Tenders outfits were tasteful and practical. Why were they all women? Dunno...maybe it's the structural wage disparity...for $19/hour, the guys might be humpin' rebar in the 90 degree heat.<br /><br />BatChainPullerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-39464790614120912712011-06-03T20:04:45.469-04:002011-06-03T20:04:45.469-04:00My wife's comment on the picture of Caleb with...My wife's comment on the picture of Caleb with the 4 "ammo waitresses" was that they looked like church youth camp counselors. I had to concur. From what I see in that pictures, those women are dressed about the same way my wife, my mother, my aunts, or my sister would be. And they're pretty darn conservative.Rob Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15604826633798229422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-375027718667931452011-06-03T19:39:55.161-04:002011-06-03T19:39:55.161-04:00boxer = brass knuckles - Forgot to translate thatboxer = brass knuckles - Forgot to translate thatLaniusnoreply@blogger.com