tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post4570294809316593017..comments2023-11-10T04:17:00.492-05:00Comments on View From The Porch: Another thing to think about...Tamhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.comBlogger48125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-62786402929710673062014-04-25T07:07:10.741-04:002014-04-25T07:07:10.741-04:00I've actually designed an entire firearms qual...I've actually designed an entire firearms qualification which includes responding to threats while retrieving and displaying credentials along with off-duty gun. The guys with the tri-fold wallet badges will often fail. Matt Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03500429239798601210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-53405618212290901702014-04-24T22:28:14.186-04:002014-04-24T22:28:14.186-04:00@CarlS: Use of deadly force will not excuse mistak...@CarlS: <i>Use of deadly force will not excuse mistakes made in the heat of the moment-because you're cops</i><br /><br />Everybody loves a dreamer.<br /><br />The "Right Words To Say" has been officer training for how many decades now? KMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-6424545026225454632014-04-24T17:02:59.147-04:002014-04-24T17:02:59.147-04:00Massad Ayoob talked once about how this problem wa...Massad Ayoob talked once about how this problem was handled in various Israeli massacres. <br /><br />The consensus was that armed citizens shot the people who were shooting little kids and it seemed to work OK. I'm not saying all folks here are smart enough to do the same thing but it's not a bad idea anyway. Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09612373437033635765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-14412206666922240832014-04-24T11:25:24.398-04:002014-04-24T11:25:24.398-04:00It definitely is something that needs to be discus...It definitely is something that needs to be discussed and understood before you stand and draw. However, there are three things that need to be considered:<br /><br />1.) If you’re still at the start of an active shooter situation, the police are still most likely several minutes out still;<br />2.) The police, IF they’re doing their job, are not going to just shoot the first guy they see with a gun. Fog of war and all, so accidents do happen, but the idea that police have not ever run into a “good guy with a gun” in their careers is mostly fallacious. Off duty cops, for instance, run around with guns all the time. Unless the cop is a newb or is really in need of additional training, he isn’t going to open up on you just because you’re packing. Drop your gat, let them cuff you, and then make your case;<br />3.) Nothing ventured, nothing gained. I’m willing to take the risk that the boys in blue pop me in order to at least try to save innocent lives. I understand that you weren’t saying that the fear of being shot by cops should cause you to decide to stand down. I don’t mean to insinuate that was what you’re saying, it’s just something that people need to consider. Lots of people die every day for much less noble purposes than trying to stop a mass murder. <br />Gooberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07358115439453465833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-3967196462210306702014-04-24T01:44:51.512-04:002014-04-24T01:44:51.512-04:00Jim Dunmyer, uh, that kind of cops circular firing...Jim Dunmyer, uh, that kind of cops circular firing squad behavior happens in reality as much as your shows. <br /><br />See the Tsarnaev shootout in Boston.Cincinnatushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10424218376882403880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-28305439182025739302014-04-24T01:23:40.437-04:002014-04-24T01:23:40.437-04:00The first two guys to get their were security ops ...The first two guys to get their were security ops for, I think, an oil company and were called because a company employee was trapped in themall. When they arrived they met up with a legally armed Kenyan whose brother had texted him that he was trapped in the coffee shop. They approached a number of police and army personnel but none would do anything until the SWAT team arrived and it had an eta measured in hours.<br /><br />The armed civilians went first to a roof top car park where there had been a sausage sizzle and were joined by a single EMT team, then they got the survivors into buddy pairs and and sent them running, two at a time, to the exit. They repeated this going down through the building.<br /><br />Finally they had a wash up and then went home as the police etc had no interest in them!<br /><br />mike from OzAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-72266863239241843242014-04-23T23:42:28.359-04:002014-04-23T23:42:28.359-04:00Assumption: Cops do not show up instantaneously; ...Assumption: Cops do not show up instantaneously; they usually take 20 minutes or more.<br /><br />This being so (as numerous documents prove), perhaps it is time for cop academies and certification classes to require:<br /><br />"Don't shoot at anything that moves until you first assess the situation, because in the intervening hours between the call and your arrival, things may have changed. Some of the people on scene might very well be undercover or plain clothes cops, federal agents, and non-police lawfully carrying. Identify your targets and THINK before you shoot.Use of deadly force will not excuse mistakes made in the heat of the moment, because you're cops - highly trained, better than civilians - and the Supreme Court has previously ruled that "professionals are deemed to know what they are doing and can be held liable for failure to maintain their professionalism." Kill innocent persons and nightmares won't be your only problem."CarlSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-40383687363961144392014-04-23T22:32:28.083-04:002014-04-23T22:32:28.083-04:00" I'm sure that these "heroes" ..."<i> I'm sure that these "heroes" dying from friendly fire would make an amusing story.</i>"<br /><br />You stay classy, pseudonymous internet man!Tamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-62489520491202061652014-04-23T21:15:18.401-04:002014-04-23T21:15:18.401-04:00 Will, do you have a source for the IDPA story? I ... Will, do you have a source for the IDPA story? I read about the situation at the time, but dont recall anything of that sort, other than a vague reference that some members of a gun club heard one or more of their members were there and came to try to help them. One other civvy that came heard about it from a text from his brother, and came. He spent about 6 hours in the mall. Others were known to have participated, along with some off duty police. Both seemed to have worked together from pictures and reports. It was thought they may have helped save up to a thousand people and get them out, exchanging shots with the terrs in the process. The official response was slow and disorganized.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-56437692595081637052014-04-23T20:45:29.437-04:002014-04-23T20:45:29.437-04:00That potential circular firing squad was the main ...That potential circular firing squad was the main reason I stayed in the house that day. And I live two towns away from where he was shot. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-44154144313385564232014-04-23T20:15:59.486-04:002014-04-23T20:15:59.486-04:00I remember seeing photos from the Kenyan mall atta...I remember seeing photos from the Kenyan mall attack by Al Queda with the guys in civvies and shooter patches working the mall.<br /><br />But I've never seen a real narrative of what happened there. I think that that is creating a lot of Kenyan Mall Truther nuts in Kenya as I understand.Cincinnatushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10424218376882403880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-51049537429414848202014-04-23T20:00:06.319-04:002014-04-23T20:00:06.319-04:00It is just too bad these morons weren't more l...It is just too bad these morons weren't more lethal. I'm sure that these "heroes" dying from friendly fire would make an amusing story. Derfel Cadarnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00904779790523776248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-13859358837671973272014-04-23T19:47:44.905-04:002014-04-23T19:47:44.905-04:00"Make it easier on them, don't have a fir..."Make it easier on them, don't have a firearm in your hands when they show up."<br />This, so much. Hooray for reholstering. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-45129877157074502772014-04-23T19:36:16.345-04:002014-04-23T19:36:16.345-04:00It bugs the heck outa me to watch any of the cop/a...It bugs the heck outa me to watch any of the cop/action shows and see all of 'em pointing their weapons at one another. Officers approaching the perp from all directions, all pointing weapons at the perp. Or one guy trying to put the cuffs on the perp while 2 others are in front of the perp with weapons trained on him.<br /><br />I'll say that that the cops are using more-or-less proper finger discipline these days.jdunmyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09304517693383396419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-55446752888454946762014-04-23T18:27:34.180-04:002014-04-23T18:27:34.180-04:00Anonymous Patrick Henry, the 2nd said...
@Murphy&#...Anonymous Patrick Henry, the 2nd said...<br />@Murphy's law<br /><br />"Remember that the armed citizen isn't expected to "Go Rambo" and shut down the active shooter"<br /><br />I disagree. I have a duty to protect innocent lives. That duty includes shutting down the active shooter. I couldn't live with myself if I didn't. If I die, whether from the active shooter, another CCWer, or a cop, I don't care. You have to try to save lives.<br /><br />Yeah, ok...whatever. It wouldn't be the internet without someone posting something like this, would it? Sheesh.Murphy's Lawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17164780742334950772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-24933662699926087162014-04-23T18:09:05.303-04:002014-04-23T18:09:05.303-04:00This is definitely a problem, and one that folks m...This is definitely a problem, and one that folks must remember. I know of one incident where a shop robbery turned into a shop owner death because of it - the perp dumped his piece and ran when the cop showed up; the owner popped out of the doorway with his pistol and was shot by the policeman.<br /><br />A week later the policeman ate his own pistol. <br /><br />IIRC the Phoenix police recreated this scenario in their shoot-house training, they didn't want a repeat. Make it easier on them, don't have a firearm in your hands when they show up.tweellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08164718561825615886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-89153173977930728292014-04-23T17:27:54.134-04:002014-04-23T17:27:54.134-04:00Trouble isn't hard to find when you go looking...Trouble isn't hard to find when you go looking for it.TBeckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17996700909201966666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-57284865355338673822014-04-23T17:10:08.135-04:002014-04-23T17:10:08.135-04:00I'm safe. I stay out of malls. If I can't ...I'm safe. I stay out of malls. If I can't find it at wally world or the local hardware store, I don't need it.Robert Fowlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03475193874676131196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-40844519835648614892014-04-23T16:39:54.648-04:002014-04-23T16:39:54.648-04:00Making sure the 911 dispatcher knows you are a whi...Making sure the 911 dispatcher knows you are a white hat and knows what you look like is one of the most important parts of a 911 call:<br /><br />"I am the one wearing a firearm and a bathrobe. Please don't shoot me."Kristophrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08370888276707569365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-76392107086111386692014-04-23T16:07:57.989-04:002014-04-23T16:07:57.989-04:00Will,
There are at least two that I have seen.
O...Will,<br /><br />There are at least two that I have seen.<br /><br />One from the Provost Marshal General and one from the NYPD.<br /><br />The NYPD study is pretty damning.<br /><br />You probably can find both on the internet some place.<br /><br />GerryAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-86939534053983151072014-04-23T15:33:25.433-04:002014-04-23T15:33:25.433-04:00That's why sheepdogs carry CCW badges, or so I...That's why sheepdogs carry CCW badges, or so I've read.<br /><br />- DrifterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-30132376696478535402014-04-23T15:09:07.388-04:002014-04-23T15:09:07.388-04:00Gerry:
What I read is that there is a range nearb...Gerry:<br /><br />What I read is that there is a range nearby where there was an IDPA meet happening, when some sort of police types participating got the call/page about the mall. They all got an invite to assist. That's why the IDPA "shoot me vest/concealment gear" is seen in mall photos. <br /><br />No idea how many non-.gov IDPA shooters joined the mall-party-in-progress. I'm guessing they may have been the most effective on site. BTW, they worked as a group when they hit the place. Went to the roof via the outdoor parking structure, and worked their way downward.<br /><br />Would be nice to get an AAR from the participants. Any IDPA people have connections to that area's group?Willhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00722792638246578812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-71952713944948479242014-04-23T14:44:48.117-04:002014-04-23T14:44:48.117-04:00@Murphy's law
"Remember that the armed c...@Murphy's law<br /><br />"Remember that the armed citizen isn't expected to "Go Rambo" and shut down the active shooter"<br /><br />I disagree. I have a duty to protect innocent lives. That duty includes shutting down the active shooter. I couldn't live with myself if I didn't. If I die, whether from the active shooter, another CCWer, or a cop, I don't care. You have to try to save lives. Patrick Henry, the 2ndnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-38014386551323177422014-04-23T14:20:51.923-04:002014-04-23T14:20:51.923-04:00Private carry is for self-defense. The sheepdog th...<i>Private carry is for self-defense. The sheepdog thing only happens if I'm curiously and temporarily still alive when all the good options, to include escape, have been exhausted.</i><br /><br />Amen. I'm getting me and mine out; sorry about your bad luck if you aren't prepared to help yourself.TheRockhttp://2loose.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-37444118095535038772014-04-23T14:20:32.132-04:002014-04-23T14:20:32.132-04:00If you look at the pictures of the Kenya mall atta...If you look at the pictures of the Kenya mall attack, there is a rather famous one with a man wearing a vest with an IDPA logo on it pointing to something off screen.<br /><br />The gentleman with the vest has his finger in register.<br />The police officer does not.<br /><br />GerryAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com