tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post6185031559571760130..comments2023-11-10T04:17:00.492-05:00Comments on View From The Porch: Should I go there? I think I'll go there.Tamhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-64219059649212830712013-10-05T11:41:14.949-04:002013-10-05T11:41:14.949-04:00I think I'm going to start referring to the us...I think I'm going to start referring to the use of Lethal/Less-Lethal Force using what I propose be forever more known as Tam's Baseball Analogy.Dranghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08082177597135236652noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-1777371370171440462013-10-05T11:32:06.295-04:002013-10-05T11:32:06.295-04:00To the folks criticizing the use of deadly force, ...To the folks criticizing the use of deadly force, are you out of your ever-loving skulls?<br /><br />Carey had already directly injured one person with her vehicle in an attempt to evade capture. She was still behind the wheel of that deadly weapon -- a weapon she'd demonstrated a willingness to use -- when she was shot. <br /><br />You don't taze active shooters. You don't taze suicide bombers. And you don't taze people on the other side of a windshield... that one should be pretty obvious.<br /><br />Here's a simple rule to understand in America: If you try to kill a cop while surrounded by other cops, you're probably going to die and the courts are going to give a nice easy thumbs up to the whole thing.ToddGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06766434237817564807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-28863169541622345552013-10-05T10:44:21.422-04:002013-10-05T10:44:21.422-04:00One of the officer survival topics I always covere...One of the officer survival topics I always covered with recruits I trained was that a motor vehicle was also a weapon. I’ve personally handled all of the supervisory duties involved with an officer involved shooting involving the use of a vehicle vs. LEO. It gets really hectic in proximity to a car coming at you or clipping another LEO. At this point means of stopping the vehicle are pretty much out the door. I’d love to review the investigation results on the D.C. incident and am curious as to which agency will investigate it.Sport Pilothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04862280966739841769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-31437714183001007332013-10-05T01:26:46.822-04:002013-10-05T01:26:46.822-04:00Question only
Is there not a difference between a...Question only<br /><br />Is there not a difference between a situation such as this where<br /><br />"somebody runs down your (wife/mom/sister/coworker/whatever) and then careens right at you in their automobile, even though your gun is drawn and pointed at them, and then jumps out of the car at you"<br /><br />where 'you' must respond, and 'you and 10, 15, 20 colleagues' must respond?<br /><br />Even here in the PRUK I can act to defend myself if attacked and yet should I be there with 10 colleagues how I respond will be judged considerably more critically. Rightly so?Ablehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18109723804885979128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-6768672083027748602013-10-04T21:36:02.783-04:002013-10-04T21:36:02.783-04:00They should have known she wasn't armed with a...They should have known she wasn't armed with a gun in the first place b/c it's illegal to carry in D.C., duh!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-31028116160882892882013-10-04T18:47:57.853-04:002013-10-04T18:47:57.853-04:00Tam,
looked to me that they can control each half...Tam,<br /><br />looked to me that they can control each half of the street separately. They dropped the outgoing side for access, but there is a gap in the middle of the inbound side, which is where the unit was driving. It's possible they can't drop the inbound side at all, due to the damaged section(s). Can't tell if it is hydraulic, pneumatic, or electrical powered. Fast acting, though! I'm thinking fluid type, that lost the interconnection due to damage, hence the apparent lack of movement afterwards.Willhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00722792638246578812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-19988091000060774212013-10-04T18:30:28.566-04:002013-10-04T18:30:28.566-04:00In this particular situation one must wonder if th...In this particular situation one must wonder if the words "car bomb" was running across the internal vision of everyone of these officers like a marquee. <br /><br />I wasn't there. I'm not trying to acqb this. But I do wonder why an armed man in body armor can't wait to at least see a gun before shooting people.not just in this case. Seems to happen too often for my liking. Gooberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07358115439453465833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-90669611084593975032013-10-04T17:49:36.448-04:002013-10-04T17:49:36.448-04:00Word on the street is that the cop-wannabe that mu...Word on the street is that the cop-wannabe that murdered her was a White Hispanic. Michaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-21686784265901089462013-10-04T17:09:24.399-04:002013-10-04T17:09:24.399-04:00Will,
Watching the video myself, it looked like b...Will,<br /><br />Watching the video myself, it looked like barriers were lowered individually for emergency response vehicles to get through. I'll need to go back and look at it again.Tamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-68018048634905968012013-10-04T17:02:20.526-04:002013-10-04T17:02:20.526-04:00"On the bright side, everybody knows those th..."On the bright side, everybody knows those things'll stop heck out of a car now. "<br /><br />Near the tail end of that video, you can see a gap in the row of pop-up barriers where his unit went through. This is not a good sign. They should have been stronger at partial deployment than at full erection. I'm thinking a re-design is needed. As is, you would just need a blocker vehicle to create a gap for the following vbied. Someone screwed up in procurement.Willhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00722792638246578812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-52049464251577828632013-10-04T16:09:38.784-04:002013-10-04T16:09:38.784-04:00Based on the location of the incident I wonder if ...Based on the location of the incident I wonder if "Car Bomb" was going through anyone's mind at the time of the shooting?<br /><br />Just wondering...<br /><br />Earl HardingAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-17633580529068365742013-10-04T14:32:45.527-04:002013-10-04T14:32:45.527-04:00Drifter,
I stand corrected and IOU a glass of adu...Drifter,<br /><br />I stand corrected and IOU a glass of adult beverage if we ever shall meet.<br /><br />Defending hags is dirty work.<br /><br />GerryAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-23243740553913630342013-10-04T14:21:44.427-04:002013-10-04T14:21:44.427-04:00And I must admit I'm qb'ing based on what ...And I must admit I'm qb'ing based on what I've read here and heard in radio reports. Haven't watched any video.Scott Jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-79867031188594372272013-10-04T14:18:19.669-04:002013-10-04T14:18:19.669-04:00I don't like Monday Morning Quarterbacking the...I don't like Monday Morning Quarterbacking these events, but the one thing about this whole thing that I saw from the video shown on various stations last night was an officer firing at the vehicle as IT DROVE AWAY.<br /><br />In Indiana, except for extremely exceptional circumstances, officers are NOT justified in shooting at a fleeing felon. <br /><br />This ruling I believe is the result of a Indiana Supreme court case and is the standard mantra for certified police firearms instructors or it was up till 4 years ago when I last went through a re-cert at Plainfield. violations can lead to criminal prosecution it all depends upn the circumstances and the local prosecutor...<br /><br />All The Best,<br />Frank W. JamesFrank W. Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13226349436102265762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-31964250727535228732013-10-04T14:13:57.362-04:002013-10-04T14:13:57.362-04:00Wow. You are just a goddess of snark. I am in aw...Wow. You are just a goddess of snark. I am in awe.perlhaqrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01920117742664645165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-38991253244780986052013-10-04T14:07:03.154-04:002013-10-04T14:07:03.154-04:00"Yeah, sorry. :o"
No harm, no foul.
An..."Yeah, sorry. :o"<br /><br />No harm, no foul.<br /><br />And since I stepped away for a "lunch hour" at the range (2 more m4gery break in rounds, 6 to go. And a dead battery in the chrono so I couldn't velocity check some rounds in a different rifle. I left the spare battery at home :( ) you and DiveMedic covered one of the points I had in mind.<br /><br />Another (and perhaps this comes from reading too much content at WRSA) is do they really have the same leathal force rights as us. They after all have thousands of taxpayer training dollars poured into them that's supposed to make them better at moving around those continuum bases than us mere mundanes. Not to mention the overuse of SWAT turning so many encounters that should be simple into lethal ones.<br /><br />Lastly, sorry I was using Tazer as a blanket term like Xerox.<br /><br />I don't carry one because all I have seen are big and bulky. Plus all the ones that don't shoot darts make me think I'll wind up like Sam's roommate in Transformers 2 :)Scott Jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-42675699728923375602013-10-04T13:40:04.265-04:002013-10-04T13:40:04.265-04:00@ Gerry 10:56,
Point of order: The "shoulde...@ Gerry 10:56,<br /><br />Point of order: The "shoulder thing that goes up" comment was originally uttered by neither a Senator nor someone from California.<br /><br />Please do not ever make me defend one of those hags again. :)<br /><br />Thank you,<br />DrifterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-14198605715155033022013-10-04T13:24:08.637-04:002013-10-04T13:24:08.637-04:00"Woman steps out of car, and unless a weapon ..."<i>Woman steps out of car, and unless a weapon is visible, is lethal force still authorized?</i>"<br /><br />Unless she got out of that car slowly and with her hands clearly visible? You betcha.<br /><br />Let's look at it this way: Somebody runs down your (wife/mom/sister/coworker/whatever) and then careens right at you in their automobile, even though your gun is drawn and pointed at them, and then jumps out of the car at you. What do you do? *BAM!* Oops! She was unarmed.<br /><br />What's every Monday Morning Peyton Manning gonna say then?Tamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-53205036510295080372013-10-04T13:09:10.365-04:002013-10-04T13:09:10.365-04:00I'm not saying that is what happened here, but...I'm not saying that is what happened here, but a thought exercise:<br /><br />Woman tries to run you down. Lethal force authorized.<br />Woman steps out of car, and unless a weapon is visible, is lethal force still authorized? I would say no, that the situation has deescalated.<br /><br />In this case, exiting the car is the equivalent of dropping a gun: the attacker has disarmed herself, and shooting her would be no different from shooting a person who has dropped his gun and surrendered.<br /><br />To use Tam's baseball analogy, unlike baseball, you do not have to run the bases in order. You can go from third back to first.Divemedichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14583007051962299381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-74086363602289560432013-10-04T12:40:48.603-04:002013-10-04T12:40:48.603-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04963208167783970863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-22153926591219849792013-10-04T12:28:21.064-04:002013-10-04T12:28:21.064-04:00I think the officers' actions here were perfec...I think the officers' actions here were perfectly justified, and based on video I've seen of the incident they were remarkably restrained.<br />wizardpchttp://gunscarstech.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-28422320605668716662013-10-04T12:08:40.176-04:002013-10-04T12:08:40.176-04:00Assaulting someone with a car is generally recogni...Assaulting someone with a car is generally recognized as justifying the use of deadly force.<br /><br />Running around secure areas when uninvited may justify deadly force.<br /><br />I do feel bad for her family but I do not blame the officers for their response.<br /><br />GerryAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-71854092691220456862013-10-04T12:07:53.202-04:002013-10-04T12:07:53.202-04:00Scott J,
"No need to make a circular firing ...Scott J,<br /><br />"<i>No need to make a circular firing squad out of it.</i>"<br /><br />Yeah, sorry. :o<br /><br />Less-lethal options are a hot-button issue with me, as they sometimes contribute to a misunderstanding of the force continuum. Unlike baseball, you can run from first straight to third, or home from second. ;)Tamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-39659857668596544852013-10-04T11:58:44.225-04:002013-10-04T11:58:44.225-04:00Scott J,
"Most all street officers around he...Scott J,<br /><br />"<i>Most all street officers around here are issued Tazers (the kind that shoot out darts on wires so they work at more than contact distance).</i>"<br /><br />1) Tazers all shoot darts. If it doesn't shoot darts it's not a Tazer.<br /><br />2) Less-lethal options exist for when an officer needs to gain compliance or take a suspect into custody. There is no requirement to respond to an incident that has already escalated to the level of lethal force (ie people getting run down with cars) by escalating gradually up some "use of force continuum". The police officer has the same right to respond to a deadly assault with lethal force as any other citizen, <i>and our side would do well to remember that lest our words come back to haunt us in a self-defense case some day</i>.<br /><br />"Well, Mr. J, why didn't you think to equip yourself with a Tazer? In a statement you made on October 4th of last year, you said, and I quote..."Tamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-37854348852719937312013-10-04T11:57:21.845-04:002013-10-04T11:57:21.845-04:00That lady reminded me of Michelle Obama...That lady reminded me of Michelle Obama...LLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05538854359365988863noreply@blogger.com