tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post6539458863054047049..comments2023-11-10T04:17:00.492-05:00Comments on View From The Porch: Place your bets...Tamhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.comBlogger65125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-73648230354094176512013-07-08T15:53:27.203-04:002013-07-08T15:53:27.203-04:00Joseph -- Nope.
The Articles of Confederation die...Joseph -- Nope.<br /><br />The Articles of Confederation died for good once every single state that was bound by them ratified the Constitution, "amending" the Articles by 100% substitution of the Constitution. Including removing the statement of "perpetual union" and not replacing it.<br /><br />Article 13 -- And the Articles of this Confederation shall be inviolably observed by every State, and the Union shall be perpetual; nor shall any alteration at any time hereafter be made in any of them; <b>unless such alteration be agreed to in a Congress of the United States, and be afterwards confirmed by the legislatures of every State.</b>Geodkythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17340718574781403778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-38047569713761917372013-07-07T22:56:48.923-04:002013-07-07T22:56:48.923-04:00Yeah, well, Franklin. We have had a coupla lizard...Yeah, well, Franklin. We have had a coupla lizards in the house we put up with, because they eat insects, but they are still nasty reptiles, so we named them Woodrow and Franklin.<br /><br /><br />Later I was in church when I saw a tiger gecko in front of me on the floor and picked him up. He clung to my hand all through Communion and all the way home. He proceeded to hang out in my room and do tremendous execution among the roaches. He is a Holy Gecko. I have named him Grover, after the last real Democrat we had for President.<br /><br />It's a shame you had to shut down comments on the other post. I dunno about others, but I was really trying to Play Nice, that post's subject being one about which I care very much, much more than I care about our individual differences.Justthisguyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17277333206171756636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-2085732200816118652013-07-07T21:00:17.790-04:002013-07-07T21:00:17.790-04:00Too easy. It is 2016, when America elects Vladimr...Too easy. It is 2016, when America elects Vladimr Putin as president (Joe Biden still VP). If you are wondering about the natural born citizen clause - shut up, racist h8r.dustydognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-27153680484355443492013-07-07T09:44:28.330-04:002013-07-07T09:44:28.330-04:00I'd draw the line at Wilson, roughly around 19...I'd draw the line at Wilson, roughly around 1913, and the passage of the 16th and 17th Amendments.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04711185139044531012noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-61112226352955445952013-07-07T03:09:34.896-04:002013-07-07T03:09:34.896-04:00You still had non-governmental decisions happening...You still had non-governmental decisions happening, though. Prohibition, its repeal, the steel seizure case, the end of Vietnam, and Nixon's fall were all at least arguably things the people wanted in defiance of their masters, or that the Court did in defiance of the executive.<br />I would put the proof of inevitabiliy date at 1996, when a new congress was elected with a specific mandate for change and the people returned it although nothing actually was changed. staghoundshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05976667812875074135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-8142171083149282322013-07-07T01:09:42.574-04:002013-07-07T01:09:42.574-04:00If a state withdrew from the Constitution, would t...If a state withdrew from the Constitution, would that mean the <a href="http://www.law.ou.edu/ushistory/artconf.shtml" rel="nofollow">Articles of Confederation and <i>perpetual</i> Union</a> would be in effect?Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04720409839023747889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-29044057250177439942013-07-07T00:52:22.002-04:002013-07-07T00:52:22.002-04:00O.K., Lincoln was a consummate politician (read ly...O.K., Lincoln was a consummate politician (read lying hypocritical scumbag), but he got the British out of the south, where they ruled through a proxy group called Factors. <br /><br />In 1828 the Feds introduced a brutal tariff system against European imports, to build up the U.S. industrial base. The south was tied to Britain by the loans the London Factors (predominantly the same gents who underwrote Lloyds Of London) You were given all the money you needed, with your slaves as security (the primary value of slaves, as you get far more work out of a free and hungry man).<br /><br />You moved west as the land petered out, cutting down the forest and burning it to ashes, then ran water through the ashes and boiled it down to lye. Lye to tan leather. <br /><br />Leather to make the drive belts that turned water or steam power into manufactured goods. Leather to make the pump seals that kept the water out of the mines, and leather for harnesses to put draft horses in front of wagons. The plastic of it's day.<br /><br />After making money selling off the forest (Kentucky is Indian for High Dark Place, now it grazes horses) the remaining ash enriched the soil for another decade or so. Then the worked out soil was peddled for a song to crackers who owed nothing to London. <br /><br />And Massa went even deeper into debt to the factors, and moved on towards the Big Muddy. <br /><br />A plantation owner wasn't only in debt for loans. Everything he owned, every rake and shovel, every dress and suit and pistol and dish, was shipped from Britain, through the Factor, at a solid markup.<br /><br />He was forced to pay the extra cost engendered by the 1828 Tariff Act, and it was an economic groin kick to the south.<br /><br />As much as I admire Southern courage and skill, we were better off with the factor system broken, and it took a war to do it. <br /><br />Lincoln wasn't against slavery, his wife owned quite a few, as did General Grant. In point of fact, he was a bitter racist and very much despised Blacks. Check out some of his comments during the Lincoln-Douglas debates. Presumably why the Henry Fonda flick Young Abe Lincoln isn't shown on the Boob Toob anymore.<br /><br />So the damage done to the country was considerable, by his suspension of Habeus Corpus, his rounding up and imprisoning hundreds of Democratic politicians without charges (Hmmm... :-)) and his pre-war military occupation of critical areas of Maryland and Kentucky to keep them from going Confederate. <br /><br />But that, and the blockading U.S. Navy, guaranteed the British stranglehold on American finances was broken forever, and that might have been a decent tradeoff. <br /><br />I lean toward 1911/12/13, with Wilson and FDR or someone like them being as inevitable as cockroaches in a bin full of crumbs.Ed Fosterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09676740819579030462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-87274147877874771552013-07-06T22:49:50.216-04:002013-07-06T22:49:50.216-04:00April 6, 1861?
On the contrary, Federal supremacy...April 6, 1861?<br /><br />On the contrary, Federal supremacy was established on <a href="en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ableman_v._Booth" rel="nofollow">March 7, 1859</a>.Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04720409839023747889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-84241581373782886462013-07-06T18:25:58.974-04:002013-07-06T18:25:58.974-04:00RevolverRob, your point is very well taken. Howeve...RevolverRob, your point is very well taken. However, without Lincoln's needless war, not only is Grant never elected, but "reconstruction" (so-called) never takes place. The resulting abuse then, never happens. Without war it's certainly conceivable that we may even have seen re-unification (and I strongly believe that would have happened once slavery left the stage). But that re-unification would have to have strengthened State autonomy, not weakened it as Lincoln's war did.<br /><br />The Freeholder also makes a very critical observation, IMHO. I would disagree that the Constitution itself was the problem, however. Rather, the various federal actors who've refused to constrain themselves to the limits of the Constitution - and the low-info electorate which continually lets that slide - were, and continue to be, the problem.<br /><br />The proposition as I understood it was to identify a specific point in time where the Republic ended and an empire replaced it. To my mind, that point is Lincoln's choice to use <i>unauthorized force</i>, by ordering the naval invasion of Charleston Harbor, rather than recognizing So. Carolina's <i>State sovereignty</i> and sending an empty troop ship to evacuate Ft. Sumter, which he could just as easily have done. <br /><br />After that point, what was then left of the U.S. - and then, later, the collection of States bound together after 1865 - went from a nation built upon voluntary membership in a self-governing Republic, to an empire held together by military force and ruled by an oligarchy in Washington, D.C.<br /><br />I can't think of any other specific point in our history which identifies such a massive, <b>fundamental transformation</b> from Republic to empire.<br />AGoyAndHisBloghttp://www.agoyandhisblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-70683745629712327862013-07-06T15:48:39.999-04:002013-07-06T15:48:39.999-04:00You're all delusional. The day everything sta...You're all delusional. The day everything started going to pot was when the monolith appeared and taught that monkey how to go all James Yeager with a femur bone.<br /><br />jfAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-33986535626369828102013-07-06T14:25:44.918-04:002013-07-06T14:25:44.918-04:00Febuary 25, 1791
As soon as Hamilton won the Impl...Febuary 25, 1791<br /><br />As soon as Hamilton won the Implied Powers aurgument with Washington, and he signed into law authorizing The First Bank of the United States. This left the constitution open for debate allowing Gov't to grant itself powers not expressly granted, by just saying implied.<br /><br />So, were we ever even truly a republic?<br /><br />My question is not when did it die, but has it been a fiction all a long?<br /><br />I put forth.<br /><br />No Treason<br /><br />The Constitution of No Authority<br /><br />by Lysander Spooner (1869)<br /><br />http://jim.com/treason.htm<br /><br />Hmmm...Josh Kruschkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09288700371539530398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-2694794799159533662013-07-06T13:47:47.452-04:002013-07-06T13:47:47.452-04:00Lincoln is a clear example of the fact that the wi...Lincoln is a clear example of the fact that the winning side writes the history books, for the most part. Asshole didn't win a war, he lost a country.Willhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00722792638246578812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-91972212663727160162013-07-06T13:27:16.034-04:002013-07-06T13:27:16.034-04:00Anonymous 0938.
Lincoln created some precedents bu...Anonymous 0938.<br /><i>Lincoln created some precedents but there was rollback after the war was over.</i><br />I'm not seeing that.<br /><br />Lincoln forever upended the Constitutional principle that the federal government was a creature of the several States.<br /><br />After 1861, states were creatures of the Federal government.<br /><br />And while people believe that grade-school horseshit about Lincoln freeing the slaves, no one today is taught in school that Lincoln jailed newspaper editors for daring to oppose him in print.<br /><br />Lincoln was truly a tyrant, and this country would have been far better off had Booth done his thing in 1861 instead of four years later.marinerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03435598676103731157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-43449256125656874022013-07-06T13:12:52.269-04:002013-07-06T13:12:52.269-04:00AGoyandHisBlog,
Drawing the line is pretty easy, ...AGoyandHisBlog,<br /><br /><i>Drawing the line is pretty easy, actually.<br /><br />It's April 6, 1861.<br /><br />http://bit.ly/17WpPrB<br /></i><br /><br />I agree. The other was the Supreme Court decision in <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Clara_County_v._Southern_Pacific_Railroad" rel="nofollow">Santa Clara v. Southern Pacific</a>, holding that corporations are persons.marinerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03435598676103731157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-63494459888546591692013-07-06T12:57:02.255-04:002013-07-06T12:57:02.255-04:00As an aside, pop culture concern over wiretapping ...As an aside, pop culture concern over wiretapping is present as far back as the Eagles' "On the Border" and likely much further.Dan Fnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-882069734289516942013-07-06T09:38:58.147-04:002013-07-06T09:38:58.147-04:00Sept 1901 when TR became President. Lincoln creat...Sept 1901 when TR became President. Lincoln created some precedents but there was rollback after the war was over. Since 1901, it has been downhill, with pauses but not rollback. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-34003037660665035452013-07-06T00:55:13.460-04:002013-07-06T00:55:13.460-04:00I vote for FDDR and the 1937 court-packing scandal...I vote for FDDR and the 1937 court-packing scandal. That paved the way for all the administrative law anti-liberty and everything else you all mention as happening after that. 1940 engendered far less howling from constitutionalists and the other party. FDDR's picture was already in people's homes a la Hitler, Stalin and the other dictators by that time. <br /><br />And I saw the typo but left it in as a sort of political allusion.Windy Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01951254236693386401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-47058383813441791282013-07-06T00:40:23.834-04:002013-07-06T00:40:23.834-04:00It certainly is easy to suggest 1861 with Lincoln....It certainly is easy to suggest 1861 with Lincoln. But I would actually suggest 1866 with the election of Grant, who enforced radical Republican policies of reconstruction. Never before had the rights of states been so severely curtailed, beaten down, and corrupted by the Federal government, until the Reconstruction era. In Texas it took nearly 40 years to push those "damn carpetbaggers" out, with their political cronyism, corruption, and greed. The South was not reconstructed so much as it was occupied by an Imperial force and subverted through political rule by a single party. <br /><br />Post Reconstruction is actually when you see the real fruits sowed from the Manifest Destiny philosophy of 50 years before. True American Imperialism, and rule by a dictatorial regimes that broadly influenced global policy, without care for the Republic was already the norm. <br /><br />-Rob <br /><br />RevolverRobnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-47258744056787181652013-07-05T22:54:49.197-04:002013-07-05T22:54:49.197-04:00Now that I've typed that, I can't help but...Now that I've typed that, I can't help but picture myself in a long whit dress saying "Obiwan, you're our only hope." And I'm a pretty ugly dude.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-55946956720853938962013-07-05T22:40:30.588-04:002013-07-05T22:40:30.588-04:00A lot of great suggestions, along with the realiza...A lot of great suggestions, along with the realization that there is no ONE thing, but the smart historians will have to key in on 1913 as the clear year of demise for the republic. The end of lower case federalism (17th ammendment) and the ascendency of capital letter Federal (16th ammendment and Federal Reserve). Amazing (and amazingly ironic at only first glance) how populism kills democracies--democratic republics especially. The elder Roosevelt (and Wilson) will be the seen as the more the more significant villians (guess my longterm optimism for the next democratic republic is showing).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-38885831971349021862013-07-05T22:40:26.891-04:002013-07-05T22:40:26.891-04:00March 4, 1789, the date that the US Constitution w...March 4, 1789, the date that the US Constitution went into effect. Up until that time, the Articles of Confederation has successfully prevented a strong central government from emerging. By 1791, the new central government was flexing its muscles (see the Whiskey Rebellion) and pushing it's limits outward. Since then, nothing has changed except the pace.The Freeholderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09989697995675652792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-87229086312358266522013-07-05T22:21:14.586-04:002013-07-05T22:21:14.586-04:00Chris adds three more reasons to hate Wilson, 17th...Chris adds three more reasons to hate Wilson, 17th amendment is one I should have remembered. <br /><br />Billf, not my border, I was born in California and therefore neutral, but well played, Sir, very well played. I went over the wall when I was three and though I live within spitting distance of the border, it's been years since my last visit. deadcenternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-3583920726466540652013-07-05T22:17:32.941-04:002013-07-05T22:17:32.941-04:001913? I think y'all are a bit late on the dat...1913? I think y'all are a bit late on the date. I'd have to go with some time around or before July 1861.<br /><br />That might just be the southern perspective, though.Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13151671152905882898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-86773450541139663772013-07-05T22:05:09.848-04:002013-07-05T22:05:09.848-04:00somewhere between febuary 3rd and april 8th 1913. ...somewhere between febuary 3rd and april 8th 1913. two giant death blows. everything since then has been footnotes<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-24041294750850647382013-07-05T21:41:22.022-04:002013-07-05T21:41:22.022-04:00Deadcenter,Re: Lincoln kept his indescretions with...Deadcenter,Re: Lincoln kept his indescretions within out own borders;Nope,sorry,in 1861 your southern border was Virginia.<br />Lincoln invaded the South,as sure as Bush invaded Iraq.<br />Billfbillfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01088484063488751057noreply@blogger.com