tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post6559994704209313872..comments2023-11-10T04:17:00.492-05:00Comments on View From The Porch: Well, at least they're not trying to round off π again.Tamhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.comBlogger57125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-56740363801626437182011-12-04T11:47:03.765-05:002011-12-04T11:47:03.765-05:00"Full disclosure: I write with either hand.&q...<i>"Full disclosure: I write with either hand."</i><br /><br />I wish I could! Unfortunately, my teachers made me pick one or the other, so now if I write with my left hand it looks like a first or second grader's handwriting (about the time they made me choose). I'm still pissed about that!<br /><br />For those lefties who have had issues with handwriting: It's fairly well known nowadays, especially among the fountain pen aficionados, that the educational establishment has never been very well disposed towards the left handed, and that the usual methods of teaching lefties to write (curling the hand around to write from above, is the most notorious) are <a href="http://handedness.org/action/leftwrite.html" rel="nofollow">simply <i>wrong</i></a>. (I know I had one teacher try to force me to not angle the paper the correct way when I would write with my left hand.) That doesn't even count the very common practice of forcing a left handed person to write right handed. It's probably only the last 50 or 60 years that anyone in education really cared, and the general attitude before that was "left is wrong."Jake (formerly Riposte3)https://www.blogger.com/profile/02976718318892210404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-83993221090989082072011-12-04T09:40:34.709-05:002011-12-04T09:40:34.709-05:00I write cursive and draw printing, so I can commun...I write cursive and draw printing, so I can communicate faster and more coherently in cursive. And I can read older handwriting, something a number of my colleagues (20s into mid 30s) have great difficulty doing. To me cursive is a discipline and a way to reinforce basic language skills for those who learn by doing. Did I enjoy learning it? No, because I have a short term memory problem, which is why I write cursive but draw printing (as in, my mind and hand print letters the same way I draw pictures of things). Do the middle and high school students I work with suffer from being launched into typing and word processing without learning basic English grammar and composition? Oh yeah!<br /><br />Agreed with all that schools need to be teaching reading, writing (composition and handwriting) and basic math, then history, geography and government. Full disclosure: I write with either hand.<br /><br />LittleRed1Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-88151237332013239442011-12-04T02:33:57.864-05:002011-12-04T02:33:57.864-05:00I don't care that they don't teach them to...I don't care that they don't teach them to write in cursive: they have bigger fish to fry, as the kids in third grade now can't read, spell, tie their shoes, read an analog clock or make change.... all stuff I learned to do in first grade.<br /><br />Hell, there was a grown man (or he purported to be)on TFL today that could not figure out how to read the scale on a Lee powder scale....jimbob86noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-17310897503404268472011-12-04T01:05:24.152-05:002011-12-04T01:05:24.152-05:00Will, did you ever consider doing what Leonardo di...Will, did you ever consider doing what Leonardo did, and write from right to left? Were the "normals" to complain, you could just have told them, "Git a mirror!"<br /><br />A lot of airplanes today require the guy on the port side to fly left-handed, what with the side sticks and all. You might have an advantage in that kind of situation.Justthisguyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17277333206171756636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-31589964056083233452011-12-04T00:34:44.562-05:002011-12-04T00:34:44.562-05:00Left-handed Aspie here. Early on, school teachers ...Left-handed Aspie here. Early on, school teachers (late 50's) tried to get me to write with my right hand, but I refused. Learned to write with the paper and/or my wrist at lots of angles, to work with various desks and notebooks.<br /> <br />Never told anyone, but I taught myself to write right-handed before I was 10. Didn't care for it. Had no creative or emotional connection with my right hand. About 15 years ago, I took an hour intro flight in a sailplane. When the pilot in the rear realized I was using my left hand on the stick, he had me switch hands. Took all the fun out of it. Felt about as interesting as driving a Bug on the freeway. I never went back.Willhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00722792638246578812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-18159468924248982782011-12-03T20:04:07.862-05:002011-12-03T20:04:07.862-05:00I'm with Marko; If I had my druthers, I'd ...I'm with Marko; If I had my druthers, I'd do all of my writing with a real nib pen. It makes cursive fun. We were forbidden to use ball-points when I was learning cursive.<br /><br /> I do miss the old cheap Sheaffer cartridge-fed pens. I think I still have two or three, but the cartridges, if you can find them, are horrendously expensive. I refill them with one of Mom's old insulin syringes.Justthisguyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17277333206171756636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-13059717887878168022011-12-03T16:08:44.748-05:002011-12-03T16:08:44.748-05:00Wow. All these comments are really making me feel ...Wow. All these comments are really making me feel young. I have never had any classes in penmanship, and all papers longer than about 500 words were required to be typed. If they weren't typed you failed.<br /><br />But, I have gone out of my way to learn a legible print; if I am having to write it by hand, then having it be readable is pretty darn importantjetazhttp://gunsmithingandpolitics.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-57068359051341601882011-12-03T15:29:37.288-05:002011-12-03T15:29:37.288-05:00"it seems to me that a reasonably good hand i..."it seems to me that a reasonably good hand is as useful to a person's success as a reasonably good speaking ability. It doesn't help one's career prospects when he can't legibly fill out a job application."<br /><br />The sorts of jobs one can get by filling out a paper form in cursive can just as easily be gotten by filling out a paper form via neat printing. Thing is, there aren't many of those anymore; almost everyone these days wants digital resumes, submitted electronically.<br /><br />"Need I say that I completely agree? Certainly my high school math teacher certainly did: calculators were verboten. Even my college professors wanted us to draw our plots with pencil, ruler and french curve even though computers and printers were available for the task."<br /><br />I went to a school like that, unfortunately. They even taught us to do square roots on paper, and to use paper trig tables (in the mid to late 1980's!). My sister, on the other hand, went to a school that embraced calculators, graphing calculators, and computers.<br /><br />Guess which one of us was doing college prep advanced math by the time she graduated, and which one of us never got that far because of the months and years wasted learning the Old Ways. <br /><br />My sister went on to double major in mathematics and nuclear engineering, and I got a degree in English instead. I still resent having been held back by the Old School like that. Yeah, I can still find square roots if I'm ever shipwrecked on a deserted island without a calculator, but she knows how to do the stuff that calculators *can't* do. <br /><br />Learning archaic math and writing methods may build character, but learning useful things builds character too, and is a damn sight more useful, methinks. And if you want to instill knowledge for the sake of knowledge, literature/history/geography is a lot more mind-broadening than learning cursive, IMNSHO.benEzranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-63846792100852635442011-12-03T14:09:47.037-05:002011-12-03T14:09:47.037-05:00I do all my handwriting in cursive. We learned by ...I do all my handwriting in cursive. We learned by the Zaner-Bloser method, in third grade. As I went through the upper grades, it seemed that typing was a low-class thing for regimented office girls, and was taught as such. <br /><br /><br /> Fortunately, my Mom, who had made her living with a typewriter and collected old ones, had me take the non-regimented "enrichment" touch-typing class in the summer. It was neat; we could wear shorts, take breaks when we felt like it, etc. We all wanted to be there, and to learn.<br /><br /> When I went off to college, my folks bought me a typewriter. I think I only had the lid off it once or twice in five years. I went to an engineering school (Ga. Tech) and all of our essays, exams, etc. were done in longhand by everyone.<br /><br />Drafting and Surveying taught me to write neatly in block letters, but I despise to use them just to communicate.<br /><br />On the job application question: I'm just the opposite, and the cursive ones would go to the top of the stack.<br /><br />P.s. The blogspot WV is always in cursive.Justthisguyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17277333206171756636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-3088180301930216952011-12-03T10:21:44.832-05:002011-12-03T10:21:44.832-05:00I can no longer write in English. (Here I am usin...I can no longer write in English. (Here I am using the print/write distinction between block and cursive.) I used to be able to write, not the finest hand, but a decent one, in English. Boot camp, and the military in general, did wonders for my printing, but the military was death for my cursive.<br /><br />When I learned Russian, I started off block printing and then moved into cursive. Now, however, whenever I try to write (cursive) in English, I find myself dropping in the equivalent Cyrillic characters from time to time. That'll get people to scratch their heads, when contemplating a missive that suddenly goes all Russian on them.Lewisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-47558912514215536272011-12-02T23:30:39.663-05:002011-12-02T23:30:39.663-05:00Put me down in the pro-cursive camp. While I was ...Put me down in the pro-cursive camp. While I was taught it, I never did get the hang or cursive "r's", and I have always felt the lack.<br /><br />I think that the overly standardized Palmer method is responsible for a lot of frustrated third graders - if they would loosen up a little, and teach each student something that works for him, then they would achieve a better result. Unfortunately, that is a full time job for teachers who are caring and can give each student individual attention, and we only have part-time educators to do the work - the rest of the time they are doing political indoctrination and other vital work.<br /><br />As an interesting aside, I once heard that there were some experiments evaluating the handwriting of convicts (graphology?) analyzing their personalities, teaching them to write better, which had the side effect of making their personalities change for the better. (I know - my BS detector went off on that one when I heard it in the nineties. Still, if it worked, wouldn't it be cool?)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-4690043836982650702011-12-02T22:14:23.534-05:002011-12-02T22:14:23.534-05:00Much as I enjoy handwriting -- I returned to cursi...Much as I enjoy handwriting -- I returned to cursive a little over a year ago -- the 19th-century need to have "a fair hand" was slowly eroded by the typewriter and obliterated by the computer.<br /><br /> Cursive is splendid and wonderful and the various forms -- Egyptian Demotic, Russian, even Ancient Roman and Arabic -- all start to resemble one another. But it's redundant. It'd make a nice elective class for interested students but the rest of 'em can learn to print well, type and text.<br /><br /> (Demotic, interestingly, shows the same kinds of individual variation modern cursive does. Looking at a collection of examples is one of those freaky shortcuts-in-history experiences.)Roberta Xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09956807794520627885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-51434403483317864142011-12-02T21:22:34.853-05:002011-12-02T21:22:34.853-05:00Could there be a more ironic snippet of snark than...Could there be a more ironic snippet of snark than the one at 8:10?<br /><br />Myself, having spent 40 years doing industrial reports, pawn tickets, and 4473's in all block caps, it's the only way I write now.<br /><br />And I agree that an elective discipline based on obsolete business requirements and sadism (lefties must write right!?!), is absurd, and a thousand times more so when forced by gov mandate.<br /><br />But I would be interested to know how those uniquely American factors paralleled the learning curve, as it were, in 1970's West German schools?<br /><br />Because that commenter ain't no burger flipper, and his written hand is a primary and cherished element of his craft. Is it art for its own sake, or is it a vital component of his product? And why?the pawnbrokerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16643081755036536592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-71319899278321712012011-12-02T20:42:39.421-05:002011-12-02T20:42:39.421-05:00There is a theory that learning calculus, even whe...There is a theory that learning calculus, even when you will never ever use the subject in your lifetime, is important. It opens you to additional ways to solve problems.<br /><br />I think penmanship in block and cursive hands have more impact than simply getting another copy of the same old lessons on *your* assignment paper.<br /><br />Learning the difference between standard and my-first-try letter forms is a major step in learning and problem solving -- using feedback. Learning to improve what you are doing. Cursive should be considered a leap from simple communications to art. Just as poetry can be considered "higher density information" than common prose, a cursive hand adds an expression of appearance, implying respect and a gift of beauty in addition to the textual content of the missive.<br /><br />Latin and Greek would provide fundamental understandings of some of the origins of modern English and common communications today. My cousin had a class in rhetoric in high school, I have often wondered if it was a subject I should have taken, had it ever been available. My school was more "modern". Gaack.<br /><br />JFK back in the 1960s defined a new "preferred" path in education, that emphasized getting lots of engineers and scientists out their to build a new space rocket, or whatever was needed to put people on the moon. So-called "modern" education was overhauled by all the government money.<br /><br />Today schools count "success" by the number of students accepted into college. As I recall, mandatory education was started to produce a minimally educated voter. Thus, reading and writing to understand and exchange opinions and reports, enough math to follow a budget, even the US Government's budget (ha!). Civics and government, state and national history. Most of these have been compromised to suit more "modern" agendas, including deliberate social engineering that is intended to disparage parental values and lifestyles in favor of whatever flavor the education establishment is pushing this semester.<br /><br />I would consider cursive writing an art class, and place it in importance above sports, above calculus, and just barely below US History. It isn't about getting textual content onto paper or billboard, it is about growth of spirit. Even if you never again use it in life.<br /><br />Disclosure: I got a D+ in penmanship in 6th grade, the last time my penmanship was graded. I took a typing class in High School, but never really learned how until college, on a key punch machine.<br /><br />And anyone that things cursive writing is a painful way to express yourself, try using mark-sense IBM cards with a #2 pencil. Punched cards without the key punch, and consistent pencil smears for punches.Brad K.https://www.blogger.com/profile/18378344866487206569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-12035637303793618972011-12-02T20:20:46.983-05:002011-12-02T20:20:46.983-05:00The result of three years "Handwriting Drills...The result of three years "Handwriting Drills" from Sister Rose Michael (of the Dominican Order) who wielded her 18 inch ruler with wicked precision has resulted in my 60 year old script being called "girlie" because it is so neat. Hmmmp. The kids nowadays are just jealous because I can read my signature! Fu&#ing kids!MikeyBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12680293927380270484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-49680059637661326462011-12-02T19:51:53.079-05:002011-12-02T19:51:53.079-05:00I'm kinda wondering how many people who read t...I'm kinda wondering how many people who read this post either knew, or took the time to find out, who Austin Palmer was, and what was the significance of the date of his death.<br /><br />I'm sure those who did could write an explanation in a lovely Spencerian hand... ;)Tamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-33359845492664269492011-12-02T18:03:10.529-05:002011-12-02T18:03:10.529-05:00Cursive writing is the bayonet training of element...Cursive writing is the bayonet training of elementary school.Takashi Sheffieldnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-79549205185643977272011-12-02T17:55:16.096-05:002011-12-02T17:55:16.096-05:00The best reason for learning to write cursive is l...The best reason for learning to write cursive is learning to read it.<br /><br />I'm a land surveyor, and despite the fact that everything I do in the office and the field is in block caps (field notes, drafting etc.), yet I must know how to read it.<br /><br />My work requires that I do a lot of my own research in county courthouses. Records before about the 60s (and even much later in many counties) was entered into record books in cursive handwriting - some very beautiful, some utilitarian and simple, some barely legible. Yet I am able to read all this.<br /><br />Rendering records in digital form has made much of this work unnecessary, but we still must go back in time quite a bit to trace old records - counties on limited budgets will digitize their records only so far back in time. I'd be unable to do my job if I didn't know how to read it, and its dissimilarity to block printing or even typeset characters requires being versant in it.<br /><br />gviglobal village idiothttp://www.alpharubicon.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-91167683877171194292011-12-02T16:13:28.412-05:002011-12-02T16:13:28.412-05:00About the most I can manage is a semi-cursive-ish ...About the most I can manage is a semi-cursive-ish signature, when I really really try.<br /><br />I'm a southpaw as well, and it just doesn't really flow very well left-handed.<br /><br />We had some cursive teaching in school, in like 2nd grade, teacher gave up on me pretty quick.<br /><br />I had some teachers praise my precise (print) writing in junior high though.Mikaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04894602732468692375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-46375183394144670802011-12-02T16:09:14.716-05:002011-12-02T16:09:14.716-05:00In hindsight, I fell sorry for my elementary teach...In hindsight, I fell sorry for my elementary teachers for all their wasted class hours trying to get my younger, more aspie self to be able to write cursive, or anything, in a readable manner.<br /><br />Typing in jr. high, and Drafting in college were much much more productive. In fact, all my teachers celebrated when I got my first typewriter.Joe in PNGnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-53889360165448734162011-12-02T15:00:57.497-05:002011-12-02T15:00:57.497-05:00That's funny!
I'm an engineer and I had to...That's funny!<br />I'm an engineer and I had to learn blueprint lettering 35 years ago. I print everything. The only thing I write in cursive is my signature. My hands don't remember how to write anything else.Just My 2¢https://www.blogger.com/profile/01870976662057532723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-12236188970549456602011-12-02T14:53:07.228-05:002011-12-02T14:53:07.228-05:00Were I an employer, reviewing the applications of ...Were I an employer, reviewing the applications of prospective employees, all applications filled out in cursive would automatically go in the reject bin.<br /><br />I have never, in all the years since I finished the classes where I was taught cursive, had any need at all for it. When I've needed to write anything by hand, printing has served me perfectly well. The time wasted teaching me cursive handwriting would have been far more usefully invested in Latin and Greek.Rob Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15604826633798229422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-81507860031565229592011-12-02T14:30:08.341-05:002011-12-02T14:30:08.341-05:00Cursive is one of the most utterly useless things ...Cursive is one of the most utterly useless things I ever had to learn in school. Hours upon hours in elementary school, learning how my much my right hand <i>hurts</i> when I spend hours at a repetitive task...for what? My handwriting certainly didn't improve, and I never had to use cursive in middle school or high school.<br /><br />Screw it, have both block writing and typing taught in schools. Typing is actually frigging <i>relevant</i> to the real world now and normal writing is easier to read than cursive, anyway.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-40055486637930001672011-12-02T14:09:08.843-05:002011-12-02T14:09:08.843-05:00Who put the curse in cursive?
It's all about...Who put the curse in cursive? <br />It's all about injecting some kind of militaristic discipline in the kiddy curriculum and breaking the Will of socially-dominant Jocks, to make them subservient and pliable.NotClauswitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14358707844087117280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-22430583167902904932011-12-02T13:56:37.983-05:002011-12-02T13:56:37.983-05:00Stick with cursive, you Luddites. I'm going fo...Stick with cursive, you Luddites. I'm going for Gothic, using a right-handed goose quill and squid ink.<br /><br />Whilst in college, I used the VAX to compose a printed essay for my 18th Century English Class, rather than a typewriter, because I started it 35 minutes before class and I could more speedily correct typos on the monitor than using an IBM Selectric. Finishing it about 2 minutes before class started, I hit PRINT and watched it come out all in CAPS, despite looking properly formatted on the screen. The teacher laughed and laughed and yet gave me an A for content. As long as legibility is retained, formatting is less important than content.<br /><br />I was taught to read by phonics records and my mom at 5, taught to write cursive in 2nd semester, 1st grade by Sister Mary Concilia, and taught to type by Mrs. Morris, an aged Black female teacher at my public High School. These were three high quality women who made me channel my minimal skills into usable functionality.mikeenoreply@blogger.com