tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post6882335528492781346..comments2023-11-10T04:17:00.492-05:00Comments on View From The Porch: Death From Above...Tamhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-43279559428256750792010-03-20T10:51:39.220-04:002010-03-20T10:51:39.220-04:00I was hit by a hang glider in the '70s at Mich...I was hit by a hang glider in the '70s at Michigan's Warren Dunes state park. The idiot pilot flared out and smacked me across the back of the legs as I was lying in the sand with the center spar. All I heard coming was a flapping of the fabric then a shadow and I was trying to dig for China.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-35893284576349396412010-03-19T20:51:42.372-04:002010-03-19T20:51:42.372-04:00BTW, the highest scoring (28 air kills) American p...BTW, the highest scoring (28 air kills) American pilot in Europe, Col. Francis "Gabby" Gabreski, miscalculated while strafing a German plane. His P-47's prop touched the grass field, initiating a 5 day E&E until capture in late July '44.Willhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00722792638246578812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-72370755850969323512010-03-19T16:46:07.220-04:002010-03-19T16:46:07.220-04:00When son was in Civil Air Patrol, I got to sit in ...When son was in Civil Air Patrol, I got to sit in on some of the 'How aircraft work' lessons, and in the single-engine planes they used the advice I remember was "If the engine dies, you get it to the first piece of level ground, or the closest thing to it, as soon as possible. Or else."<br /><br />I definitely remember the twin-engine advice: "If you lose one engine, you always have enough power to get to the scene of the crash, but not enough to keep flying."Firehandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04562365951182027709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-64448115501787420262010-03-19T02:45:14.838-04:002010-03-19T02:45:14.838-04:00Staghounds:
From everything I've r...Staghounds:<br /> <br /> From everything I've read about combat aircraft of WWII, any contact with the prop is sufficient to let the pilot know about it. Bullet strikes, tree branches, wires, birds, water splashes, debris from shot up aircraft, etc.<br /><br />Frankly, I probably would have pulled up, myself. Mangling a blade from hitting a human might have caused enough performance loss to keep it from making it back to base. Loosing a blade would have probably caused an immediate crash from the immense vibration of an unbalanced prop. Even if he didn't crash instantly, he would have not glided very far, since he was already at ground level. <br />I've seen the result of a lost prop blade on a P-51 at heavy throttle. It ripped the engine off the mounts. The only thing keeping it connected to the plane was a safety cable just for that purpose. He was on fire as he dropped out of sight, but he made it to the emergency strip. <br />If the engine falls off a single engine plane, it stops flying and becomes a kite without a string, due to center of gravity shift.Willhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00722792638246578812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-22270201034895034492010-03-19T00:12:47.910-04:002010-03-19T00:12:47.910-04:00More on my golf course comment:
Back in the eight...More on my golf course comment:<br /><br />Back in the eighties, I think it was, I helped a friend of my Dad work on the brakes on his Grumman Widgeon (the very same Widgeon from which pictures of the sinking Andrea Doria were snapped). As a reward, he took me up in it, and let me fly it for a little while. <br /><br />He was already pretty old and gray, and I did think about the heart-attack possibilities. Now, the Widgeon had one of those throw-over control wheels, so only one guy could fly at a time. There were no rudder pedals on my side, just a stub shaft sticking up from the floor to accept a rudder bar, which was stowed out of reach.<br /><br />Had the guy stroked out on me, I would have been crazy to attempt a landing on a paved runway, as that might have killed me too, and rolled up the airplane into a ball. This airplane had the famous Grumman Groundloop Apparatus, as seen in the F4F. (you should have seen him dance a jig on the rudder pedals while landing)<br /><br />So. I determined that if had to fly the thing down myself, I had two choices:<br /><br />1. If sure he was irreparably dead, hell, it's a flying boat, bring it down slowly on the Gulf, taking several miles to do so if necessary.<br /><br />2. If it looked like he might live, well, the Beach Club golf course was a coupla blocks from the hospital, and a flying boat could prolly survive that, with the wheels up. <br /><br />AND! I might have gotten to kill some golfers! (they are the worst thing about Florida, after Real Estate MFs.)<br /><br />I mentioned my golfer-hatred to Andrea Harris, and she replied that having to live in Florida makes one a misanthrope. She has escaped, to Virginia, I believe.Justthisguyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17277333206171756636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-28965671588595392832010-03-18T23:25:34.811-04:002010-03-18T23:25:34.811-04:00" but I wonder if hitting Fritz would have pr..." but I wonder if hitting Fritz would have produced any pilot-detectable effects."<br /><br />Smack a meat watermelon wrapped in a steel pot with a prop tip moving ~400mph and I don't think it'll "buff right out" of either object.<br /><br />Our man Hans though was probably last seen fishing his appendix out of his issue skivvies... probably had his buds donating rations for a week to make up for 'lost content'. Best fast diet plan I've heard of... want to lose weight fast? Stand here, and for God's sake don't plug your ears if you like your elbows...Dr. StrangeGunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03349076338197668654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-25216563260278109952010-03-18T23:19:20.004-04:002010-03-18T23:19:20.004-04:00Mr. Schiavo may be a former NTSB investigator for ...Mr. Schiavo may be a former NTSB investigator for a reason. <br /><br />Open the window and yell?<br /><br />The Lancair IV-P (P for PRESSURIZED) has fixed windows. Unless you propose cracking the door on a streamlined aircraft in an unpowered glide that close to the ground is *wise*...Dr. StrangeGunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03349076338197668654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-78091795119663202572010-03-18T10:26:48.453-04:002010-03-18T10:26:48.453-04:00Also, re: the pilot seeing the jogger:
If you'...Also, re: the pilot seeing the jogger:<br /><br />If you've never been in a small plane like that, you can't actually see the ground directly in front of you - the instrument panel sticks up higher than you would think, and blocks your view, especially as you get closer to your landing and have to raise the nose.Jake (formerly Riposte3)https://www.blogger.com/profile/02976718318892210404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-12590381093741328142010-03-18T09:30:48.208-04:002010-03-18T09:30:48.208-04:00staghounds said...
"In this sort of event, ...staghounds said... <br /><br />"In this sort of event, aren't pilots taught to aim for the place least likely to contain innocent bystanders?"<br /><br />NO, Staghounds, they most definitely are NOT taught to "...aim for the place least likely to contain innocent bystanders".<br /><br />In every flight school class taught by every single certified instructor and by every experienced pilot, they are taught that when the engine stops, you stick the nose down, and land as straight ahead as is humanly possible. Even if it's straight into the trees. Trying to turn around will almost always kill you, and trying to miss stuff ON the ground WILL kill you. You don't have the airspeed or the time to screw around.<br /><br />I have friends that did land straight into trees after engine failure on takeoff, and while they were injured, they lived to fly another day.<br /><br />For those who might remember, A Mr. Jim Wright had a propeller governor run away while flying his Hughes H-1 Racer back from Oshkosh. He stuck the nose down, had a passable spot to land (in Yellowstone National Park), and at the last moment, he saw some tourists, tried to swerve to avoid them, and wound up a flaming fireball. His wife had to take over the family machine shop business.<br /><br />Take a class.<br /><br />BoxStockRacerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-89751515007299597052010-03-18T08:53:36.617-04:002010-03-18T08:53:36.617-04:00Staghounds: So your classmate's sister was Gin...Staghounds: So your classmate's sister was Ginger Meadows?<br /><br />Even if I am thinking of another incident, THAT one gave rise to the CLASSIC crocodile joke.<br /><br />What do crocodiles eat? <br />Anything with a touch of ginger.<br /><br />BTW Aussie crocs are now in plague proportions, fearless of humans, and invading people habitats as a result of a 30+ year long total ban on hunting them.Sendariushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13286039362709773644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-4099818228465141012010-03-18T08:14:04.829-04:002010-03-18T08:14:04.829-04:00Holy cr@p.
On the "lucky soldier" thing...Holy cr@p.<br /><br />On the "lucky soldier" thing, it's a good story, but I wonder if hitting Fritz would have produced any pilot-detectable effects. That's a lot of horsepower and velocity, with plenty of insulation.<br /><br />But I like the story, so I'll believe it. And that the German went on to raise a happy family.staghoundshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05976667812875074135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-62267468935810978452010-03-18T01:59:09.973-04:002010-03-18T01:59:09.973-04:00There's another candidate for Bizarrest Death ...There's <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/7358857/Australian-woman-decapitated-during-freak-lawnmower-accident.html" rel="nofollow">another candidate</a> for Bizarrest Death of '10.Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04720409839023747889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-81062583260816916872010-03-18T01:57:49.018-04:002010-03-18T01:57:49.018-04:00For some reason, the story about the airplane, a p...For some reason, the story about the airplane, a propeller, and an impact with a person on the ground brought to mind the story "WWII's Luckiest Soldier" by W E Thompson. 1st Lt Philip Savides was strafing a German rail yard in a P-47 when he elected to exit the area by staying right at ground level, instead of climbing, to elude fire by flak guns. A German soldier running toward him stopped upright, frozen in fear, judging by his expression. Not wanting to pop up into view of the many flak guns, Savides stayed low, so low he was leaving an airborne trail of dirt and dust thrown up by his 4 bladed prop. Unable to turn without striking the ground with a wingtip, he watched the helmeted head disappear close under the engine cowl. There was no indication that the 13ft diameter prop had hit the soldier. Puzzled by that lack, he held it low for a mile, and then pulled the stick back and went to full throttle to catch up to the rest of the group.<br />Years later, he calculated that at 250mph, 2250rpm, that the prop tips would hit the six o'clock position 2.44ft ahead of each other. <br />THAT is what you could call a close shave!Willhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00722792638246578812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-34546203004382772012010-03-17T22:57:12.937-04:002010-03-17T22:57:12.937-04:00I often tell my kids:
Ya know, you could be mindi...I often tell my kids:<br /><br />Ya know, you could be mindin' yer own business, and an airplane could fall out of the sky and squash you .... not likely, but it could happen. If, on the other hand, you are running up and down the runways at O'Hare blindfolded with earplugs in and muffs on.... it'd kinda be your fault.... Those (insert item/persons associated with risky behavior) look kinda like earmuffs and I hear jet noise.... <br /><br />I pointed out this story and got "Wow. It COULD happen!"jimbob86noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-75850861814091115002010-03-17T19:02:54.605-04:002010-03-17T19:02:54.605-04:00I admit, it'd make a pretty good tombstone: &...I admit, it'd make a pretty good tombstone: "Seems death only winged him."<br /><br />Wait, too soon?<br /><br />JimAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-76696144390181252412010-03-17T16:50:23.431-04:002010-03-17T16:50:23.431-04:00Yes, there's that.
Which would you rather be...Yes, there's that. <br /><br />Which would you rather be, a grieving widow or a grieving widow with a couple of million dollars?<br /><br />And, like my classmate's sister who was eaten by crocodiles in Australia, he will be the only picture album that EVERYONE in the family knows who he is three hundred years from now.staghoundshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05976667812875074135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-2830598738341599472010-03-17T15:47:11.809-04:002010-03-17T15:47:11.809-04:00Shit happens, you just never know when, where, or ...Shit happens, you just never know when, where, or to whom.<br /><br />But all in all, checking out while having fun on vacation, with no prior mental anguish or long-term suffering, and leaving the family with double-indemnity now and a fat settlement later, wouldn't be at the top of my list of possible ignominious exits.<br /><br />ATAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-79018797625926632402010-03-17T15:18:50.841-04:002010-03-17T15:18:50.841-04:00Not going to comment on the liability of such an a...Not going to comment on the liability of such an action.<br /><br />But ditching in the ocean isn't a high percentage activity. As a choice I'd put it only above landing on top of a flock of nuns.GuardDuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08622236339096746029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-92145506395042890712010-03-17T15:10:15.652-04:002010-03-17T15:10:15.652-04:00Or legislative body.Or legislative body.staghoundshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05976667812875074135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-40523223745631298612010-03-17T15:04:07.200-04:002010-03-17T15:04:07.200-04:00Stag is right. He should have tried for a golf cou...Stag is right. He should have tried for a golf course.Justthisguyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17277333206171756636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-73811082568410589342010-03-17T14:52:45.484-04:002010-03-17T14:52:45.484-04:00In this sort of event, aren't pilots taught to...In this sort of event, aren't pilots taught to aim for the place least likely to contain innocent bystanders?staghoundshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05976667812875074135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-30538432216794836642010-03-17T14:25:03.022-04:002010-03-17T14:25:03.022-04:00Landing on the beach is a much better/safer option...Landing on the beach is a much better/safer option than ditching. It sounds to me like he did a great job. <br /><br />I think that if the guy didn't have his music blasting he would have heard something I'd imagine that it wouldn't be heard to pickup the high pitched whistling sound over the surf.<br /><br />To me it sounds like a terrible tragedy for both parties. <br /><br />tisonicJeffnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-13735423883022701532010-03-17T14:06:26.683-04:002010-03-17T14:06:26.683-04:00I wrote unclearly, I should have said
"Chos...I wrote unclearly, I should have said <br /><br />"Chose to risk killing an innocent stranger to save himself, and did."<br /><br />I'm assuming he didn't know the man was there, or that he was unable to avoid him upon seeing him. He must feel awful.<br /><br />But the piloty sounding people above suggest that there was some element of control to the descent, and praise his skills. They, and I, assume he picked maybe occupied beach over far less likely to be occupied sea.<br /><br />I don't have enough knowledge to have an opinion, but that makes sense.<br /><br />I do know some law though.<br /><br />The above posters seem to think that he is not fully civilly liable for the man's death, or that the dead man somehow had a responsibility to avoid it, or that good maintenance records will prevent civil liability.<br /><br />Isn't this is a res ipsa case? The instrumentality of the harm was entirely within the pilot's control, and the risk was entirely unforeseeable from the victim's viewpoint. <br /><br />The pilot may be able to go after his propeller installer or someone else, but he's fully liable to the victim for compensatory damages. <br /><br />Dropping airplanes on people is pretty much strict liability, isn't it?<br /><br />(My civil law is not what it might be, I'm open to correction.)staghoundshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05976667812875074135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-87183400974632553852010-03-17T13:39:18.888-04:002010-03-17T13:39:18.888-04:00Uh, staghounds? The windscreen was covered in oil....Uh, staghounds? The windscreen was covered in oil. You're assuming he saw the jogger and landed anyway; from everything I've heard so far, that was pretty much impossible.Joannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10952078709114872197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-16646611692545878442010-03-17T13:33:29.065-04:002010-03-17T13:33:29.065-04:00I mean, really!
"An admirable job of pilotin...I mean, really!<br /><br />"An admirable job of piloting by Mr. Smith just getting it to a nice flat spot. Not much he could have done about our blissfully unaware jogger without rolling the IV-P and himself up in a little ball."<br /><br />What, the dead man provided a cushion?<br /><br />Plenty of nice flat ocean with NO PEOPLE ON IT.staghoundshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05976667812875074135noreply@blogger.com