tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post831453456565334894..comments2023-11-10T04:17:00.492-05:00Comments on View From The Porch: Here's a conundrum...Tamhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.comBlogger53125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-79716139658344991892010-09-21T20:26:12.763-04:002010-09-21T20:26:12.763-04:00If you are talking about countries that have a sin...If you are talking about countries that have a single national police force that could well be controlled by that country's military, paramilitary organizations could survive within the police structure. <br /><br />In the United States, where over <br />40,000 police departments exist under the "civilian" supervision of elected members of state and local governments, or civilian control boards, the idea that American police departments are paramilitary in any definition of the word other than than that of hierarchal organization is nonsense.<br /><br />Every police organization is comprised of sworn and civilian personnel. The black helicopter types who get their panties in a twist over the "civilian" term are applying a "military" connotation to the word where none exists. I have authority and obligations granted BY STATUTE that a "non-sworn" does not. On and off duty. If ya'll would prefer me to refer to people as "non-sworn" rather than "civilian" thats fine but it seems like a needless hair split.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-42208779340727432112010-09-20T23:10:17.078-04:002010-09-20T23:10:17.078-04:00Kristopher and Gewehr98,
Yes, they are. When I bo...Kristopher and Gewehr98,<br /><br />Yes, they are. When I bought my BM-59 in 1980 or '81 for $750 it was the most expensive gun I had ever bought (would that I could say that now), but it came with 5 mags.<br /><br />I thought I ought to get at least 4more while I could and encountered a little sticker shock when I priced them, but ponied up the money when I realized how hard they were to come by.<br /><br />Having recently priced a couple of BM-59's and some mags I'm glad I did. BTW, all the mags still work great as they are of excellent quality (although I don't shoot it much anymore).Montiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17926708261895308192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-39492987220478408372010-09-19T08:47:50.971-04:002010-09-19T08:47:50.971-04:00Well said. Similar to the Cato institutes conclusi...Well said. Similar to the Cato institutes conclusion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-19553101635633136052010-09-19T00:27:46.243-04:002010-09-19T00:27:46.243-04:00tgace said: "...at it's root all "pa...tgace said: "...at it's root all "paramilitary" means is organized in a military manner."<br /><br />Sir, first let me thank you for your service. But with all due respect, "organization" as it applies to levels of command or hierarchal structure is not at all what is meant by the term "paramilitary" as it is applied here. The following are the top five dictionary definitions of the prefix "para", all of which apply in one manner or another to the morphing of the keeping of municipal law and order, into something entirely different and disturbing: <br /><br />1.Beside; near; alongside.<br />2.Beyond; as in paranormal.<br />3.Incorrect; abnormal.<br />4.Similar to; resembling.<br />5.Subsidiary or assistant, as in paraprofessional<br /><br />Enough said. The problem is systemic and epidemic and is affecting and infecting every aspect of law enforcement from administration down to the beat cop.<br /><br />Domestic law enforcement is not a military seek-and-destroy mission aimed at enemies of our sovereign state, but when military equipment, tactics, and mindset are adopted and turned against our own citizens as if it were...that, Sir, is paramilitary policing. It is a terrifying prospect, and it is *not* something to aspire to or be proud of.<br /><br />Al TeregoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-49477962022330057092010-09-18T21:18:55.676-04:002010-09-18T21:18:55.676-04:00That system of checks and balances wokred real goo...That system of checks and balances wokred real good for officer Basard.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-31764569507603970052010-09-18T16:51:55.384-04:002010-09-18T16:51:55.384-04:00"And cops are considered paramilitary because..."And cops are considered paramilitary because they are."<br /><br />Exactly. The black helicopter crowd likes to use the word to imply some sort of evil intent, but at it's root all "paramilitary" means is organized in a military manner. We (LE) have patrolmen supervised by sergeants who are supervised by Lieutenants, who are supervised by Captains and lead by a Chief.<br /><br />Even fire departments are paramilitary..organized into companies...brigades...etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-5057537452752027832010-09-18T16:05:23.019-04:002010-09-18T16:05:23.019-04:00Personally - any firearm that a private citizen wh...Personally - any firearm that a private citizen who is not disqualified by reason of mental incapacitation or the commission of a violent crime can afford and can carry should be - no permit, no questions asked legal to own, possess, and carry. <br /><br />That eliminates hand grenades, mines, and other devices which properly come under the heading of "petards." Those, and howitzers, mortars, and similar weapons might justify a permit system. Or not, in a sufficiently well armed society. <br /><br />And cops are considered paramilitary because they are. <br /><br />StrangerStrangerhttp://extranosalley.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-66250794576516959722010-09-18T13:48:43.978-04:002010-09-18T13:48:43.978-04:00Yeah, the 4 I got were $85.00 each. Of course, I ...Yeah, the 4 I got were $85.00 each. Of course, I baby my BM-59 and would poop myself if I ever boogered up the Tricompensator out front.Gewehr98https://www.blogger.com/profile/14440119702457734221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-83396522096484812342010-09-18T11:43:10.763-04:002010-09-18T11:43:10.763-04:00Those BM-59 mags are a bit spendy ...Those BM-59 mags are a bit spendy ...Kristophrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08370888276707569365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-36788919146715311142010-09-18T08:47:41.666-04:002010-09-18T08:47:41.666-04:00Select fire is unnecessary for police work aimed f...Select fire is unnecessary for police work aimed fire is vastly supperior. Area denial has no place in an urban enviroment. In the U.S. anyway. Too random with risk of collateral damage too great. Militarize the police? The Cato institute has a good article on that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-1248822338850228292010-09-18T07:14:34.048-04:002010-09-18T07:14:34.048-04:00A .223 sure wouldn't be my first choice to anc...A .223 sure wouldn't be my first choice to anchor a half-ton plus of cranky bovine, either. (But I'd choose it over buckshot.)Tamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-4823230697944215662010-09-17T22:17:31.081-04:002010-09-17T22:17:31.081-04:00A 223 is not a humane kill on a cow, unless it'...A 223 is not a humane kill on a cow, unless it's a head shot. I'm glad they got to the head shot quickly. <br /><br />Having to use it to take out a cow is inconvenient, but it can obviously be efficiently done. Since the officer is a lot more likely to encounter a two legged "target" than a four, it's a safe bet the 223 is still the best choice of firearm for LEO purposes.oghttp://www.neanderpundit.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-52847387432100972102010-09-17T21:59:11.528-04:002010-09-17T21:59:11.528-04:00tomcatshanger:
You make valid points; your insigh...tomcatshanger:<br /><br />You make valid points; your insight is beyond my years.<br /><br />Glad to make your acquaintance; I salute you, sir.<br /><br />cap'n chumbucketAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-74411454481671365142010-09-17T21:21:16.239-04:002010-09-17T21:21:16.239-04:00What she said...What she said...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-56825657706489146852010-09-17T21:05:00.511-04:002010-09-17T21:05:00.511-04:00"Is an AR15 (or M16) better or worse than an ..."<i>Is an AR15 (or M16) better or worse than an 870 (or 500 0r 12 or whatever) pump?<br />Easier to train on?<br />More effective?</i>"<br /><br />1) Generally, yes.<br />2) Definitely.<br />3) Depends.<br /><br />;)<br /><br />All things considered, for any shot farther away than inside a phone booth, I'd rather see most any shooter with a dot-sighted carbine than a pistol. At least they'll probably hit with the carbine...Tamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07285540310465422476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-15777244411110396562010-09-17T18:16:21.004-04:002010-09-17T18:16:21.004-04:00Is an AR15 (or M16) better or worse than an 870 (o...Is an AR15 (or M16) better or worse than an 870 (or 500 0r 12 or whatever) pump?<br />Easier to train on?<br />More effective?<br />Remember, most of us here are more familiar with firearms than your average police officer OR soldier, our opinions and experiences are not necessarily relevant.Dranghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08082177597135236652noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-15650686176492186722010-09-17T17:30:58.951-04:002010-09-17T17:30:58.951-04:00FYI.
Nutter takes hostages at Discovery Channel H...FYI.<br /><br />Nutter takes hostages at Discovery Channel HQ = SWAT team<br /><br />Heavily armed bank robbers spraying automatic fire down main street = Patrol Officer<br /><br />Or you get a call to respond to an armed person and this happens:<br /><br />http://www.tooshocking.com/videos/426/Cop_Vs_Marine<br /><br />or this<br /><br />http://www.metacafe.com/watch/158562/cops_vs_ak_47/<br /><br />=Patrol Officer. SWAT will never make it till it;s too late.<br /><br />Perhaps some would prefer that I have nothing but a .40 cal pea shooter available to deal with situations like this and could care less if I get sent back to my wife and kids in a bag due to their issues with law enforcements possession of rifles, but I will continue to load my AR into my squad nonetheless.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-19745764712595862072010-09-17T17:26:29.108-04:002010-09-17T17:26:29.108-04:00Tam,
I'm a little late to this party due to b...Tam,<br /><br />I'm a little late to this party due to being away from civilization for the last two days, but as one of the "militarized Mayberry" types, I wanted to throw in my two cents.<br /><br />I have spoken here before on my dismay at the increased militarization of the civilian police in this country since I started doing police work 25 years ago (this month as a matter of fact). But sometimes a rifle is the best tool for the job.<br /><br />A few years ago I had to shoot an angry steer who was charging me while another officer and I were trying to get it and several of its compadres off the highway and back behind the fence they had broken out of (angry due to an ijury received in a collison with a car).<br /><br />I managed to dispatch it quite handily with a couple of rounds of .45 ACP from my issued 4506.<br />I did not feel particularly disadvantaged or undergunned at that point.<br /><br />A couple of months later I was out on a perimeter around a house with several other officers dealing with a barracaded suspect who was armed with a 30-'06 Remington Mod. 740 Semi-auto. We did not issue patrol rifles at that time but could get approval for using our own rifles, so several officers had their personally owned AR's and Mini-14's out. Always one to be different, I was using my Beretta BM-59. After two cars on the perimeter were shot broadside with full penetration, I was damn glad to be equally armed if I needed to penetrate an exterior wall of his wood-frame house. I will say though that eventually SWAT showed up and tear-gassed him out of the house. <br /><br />We began to be issued patrol rifles after an officer on the midnight shift tried to stop a car and his patrol unit was shot full of holes by two passengers in the suspect vehicle armed with (of course) AK's. While we eventually captured them, the brass saw the need for issuing "patrol rifles" (although I'm not sure having a rifle would have helped the officer much, as he was forced to lay down in the seat below dash level until the barrage stopped and they drove away).Montiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17926708261895308192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-76205126308756873602010-09-17T17:18:07.134-04:002010-09-17T17:18:07.134-04:00WTF? An AR as a "primary patrol weapon"?...WTF? An AR as a "primary patrol weapon"? What PD's have officers working the street with slung AR's? <br /><br />Here they are secured in the squad, just like the good old shotguns have since time immemorial. Big Deal.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-52673394786374599862010-09-17T15:32:05.065-04:002010-09-17T15:32:05.065-04:00Actually, an MG for cow was appropriate.
Many sto...Actually, an MG for cow was appropriate.<br /><br />Many stockyards and slaughterhouses used to keep a Thompson up on pegs within reach to deal with panicking cattle effectively.Kristophrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08370888276707569365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-67118130383139741262010-09-17T14:55:39.192-04:002010-09-17T14:55:39.192-04:00Not to promote thread veer, but I understand the r...Not to promote thread veer, but I understand the rent-a-cops at military base front gates. That's only because during the heavy deployment tempo, my last base was severely short-handed on SPs. They were also short-handed on Security Force military augmentees, who happened to be deploying at a similar rate to their SP brethren. Until manpower authorizations got ramped up to cover the lack of troops at home drome, the best solution was rent-a-cop. <br /><br />I volunteered for a few months, brand new FN-made M16A2 in hand. I had plenty of acquaintances I waved through asking me if I'd rather be carrying my beloved 1903A1 that I used to "steal" their John C. Garand Match trophies from them the weekends prior... <br /><br />Green Tip 5.56mm works fine for the intended purpose, which was to safely sidestep the incoming 2+ ton steel/rubber/glass projectile as it blew past the guard shack, then let the vehicle attempt to navigate the tortuous Jersey Barricade maze, firing for the rear of the driver's seat through the back window. The first round was to shatter the window, allowing remaining rounds to go through the driver's seatback, etc. We had 120rds at our immediate disposal for the task. <br /><br />Since then, they've also installed those monster barricades that pop up from the asphalt at the press of a button, and are rated to rip the undercarriage out from underneath an 18 wheeler at full tilt boogie.Gewehr98https://www.blogger.com/profile/14440119702457734221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-53448890967055574162010-09-17T14:09:20.373-04:002010-09-17T14:09:20.373-04:00I haven't been paying that close attention. Is...I haven't been paying that close attention. Is it really the same people talking about sport utility rifles and paramilitary rifles, or two separate groups with otherwise similar views?Bruce H.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-63539970040884442552010-09-17T13:46:30.315-04:002010-09-17T13:46:30.315-04:00I don't mind the police having access to milit...I don't mind the police having access to military-grade equipment, as long as they're held accountable for their action with said equipment. The term "paramilitary" is very subjective and can, in some minds, include groups such as the local fire department and the Boy Scouts.Themadlemminghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05921762800761829300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-20872848903607637572010-09-17T13:12:15.341-04:002010-09-17T13:12:15.341-04:00"The po po at the Hollywood bank robbery sure..."The po po at the Hollywood bank robbery sure wished they had a coupla ARs."<br /><br />Yep, and that once-in-a-blue-moon incident has been used to "justify" the Militarization of Mayberry to the great detriment of citizens and budgets everywhere.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15907727.post-80091201749785360312010-09-17T12:56:17.929-04:002010-09-17T12:56:17.929-04:00The po po at the Hollywood bank robbery sure wishe...The po po at the Hollywood bank robbery sure wished they had a coupla ARs.Skiphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05684179171065794525noreply@blogger.com