...I know nothing about doctoring, lawyering, accounting, or network managing, yet every doctor, lawyer, accountant, and network manager knows more about the gun business and guns in general than I do?
"Why don't you post on the gun boards anymore, Tam?"
Because when someone makes an idiotic remark there, I can't just say "You're an idiot. Shut up. Grownups are talking here." Here, I can. And have. And will.
Ayup......
ReplyDeletebut, but, but.... my cocoon of ignorance? Wha happa?
ReplyDeleteHow about because a very large minority (at least) of the denizens of gun-boards are bigoted idiots?
ReplyDeleteBigoted against anyone and everything that isn't white, male, Christian.
I discovered firearms boards back when I bought my first gun around 1999. I made an effort to try and figure out which posters seemed to have some idea of what they were talking about and made a point of reading their comments. When you used to post on THR etc. you were one of those people whose comments I consistently read.
ReplyDeleteAdd that to a bit of reading, a bit of puzzling out on my own, and no shame at all when it comes to using the phrase "Hey, can you show me what the hell I'm doing wrong here?", and today I consider myself to be reasonably better informed on the subject than the average schmuck. I still consider myself to be an amateur in the classic sense, though.
I'll have go with Tam on this one,
ReplyDeleteI also enjoy the ones that don't bother to read any posts, & the same question is posted over & over & over.
There are one or two good gun boards out there, well-moderated with members who are polite and welcoming to the new people and to each other. But they're small.
ReplyDeleteI used to be a top-poster on a dirtbike board, and I'm still an idiot even after I quit.
ReplyDeleteBeen reading THR and TFL for years. That's exactly why I'm not a member. Apparently it's "not very high road" to tell someone that clearly they're a fucking moron, but it's perfectly okay for said fucking moron(s) to constantly confuse ballistic coefficient with sectional density, tell everyone that hogs really are dangerous game (they're North American rhinos, I tells ya!), or that you absolutely need at least a .300 Win Mag to kill a whitetail cleanly.
ReplyDeleteZendo Deb said...
Bigoted against anyone and everything that isn't white, male, Christian.
8:43 AM, January 15, 2008
One often finds what one looks for.
And to avoid the typical internet screeching contest that centers around my ox getting gored, I'm a mix of white and red, indeed male, and don't identify with religion.
The reason that gun forums are no fun
ReplyDeleteand are a complete waste of time is that
there is a ridiculous anomaly that takes place. Somehow, moderators think that
they're deities.
You should be able to tell idiots to shut up and that grown ups are talking, but some goody two shoes moderator will end up banning you for speaking the truth. Because.......
(tam voice)You can't handle the truth!(/tam voice)
And gosh, you don't want to offend some anonymous douche by putting them in their place, because.....uh...."that's not taking the high road"......or something.
Been a member of THR for awhile. Rarely visit it anymore. I do miss Zack Smith, Cosmoline, Tuner, but at least I can still come here straight to the source for snark and the Sunday Morning Smith.
ReplyDeleteSo? When are we finally going to see the opening of Tamara's Armory, Nuthouse, Steel Tools, Ales And Freedom Library? (Dig the acronym.)
ReplyDelete"And gosh, you don't want to offend some anonymous douche by putting them in their place, because.....uh...."that's not taking the high road"......or something."
ReplyDeleteFunny thing, Anonymous--
We've seen it before where people take the gloves off and spew vitriol without moderation. It's pretty bad. So we expect some High Road behavior on THR, in the HOPES of reducing the noise in the signal. If you can smack down a weinie while still taking the high road, you're welcome to do so. It has been done. It has been done a LOT. I can think of some threads where Tamara did it, with pictures, even.
It just takes more effort.
The accountability thing makes it harder to hit [flame] and run, there. But not here, obviously, Anonymous.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWhen in doubt, snark.
ReplyDelete"You should be able to tell idiots to shut up and that grown ups are talking, but some goody two shoes moderator will end up banning you for speaking the truth."
ReplyDelete{nod} Happened to me at The Les Paul Forum. One of the fave posters over there just summarily stomped the shit out of a newbie -- and was dead wrong, to boot -- and I told the guy he was an asshole, which was the truth. My account was yanked in seconds. (Really.)
No great big loss, really, but very illuminating of herd dynamics.
Matt: "We've seen it before where people take the gloves off and spew vitriol without moderation."
Here's the thing: any moderator worth a damn in his given subject area ought to be able to sort out the truth -- and stand on it -- even when its dripping in vitriol. "You: your style really grates, but you're right. You: you're as sweet as you can be, but you're a fucking idiot. You're out of the pool."
How hard can it be to sort out what's right?
Me? I'm not a "peace at any costs" kind of guy, because I know what it can cost.
HARMony? Good manners, good intentions and too often just wrong. Expert I am not.
ReplyDeleteyet every doctor, lawyer, accountant, and network manager knows more about the gun business and guns in general than I do?
ReplyDeleteBecause, of course, YOU'RE A GIRL!!!! :)
(Hee!)
I've given up reading most gun boards because it seems that most new members are kids whose "real-life experience" (and biases) consists only of Halo, Half-Life, and SOCOM. They seem more interested in bragging to other gamers than actually discussing the REAL hobby.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I already know all the answers to 45ACP v. 9mm, 1911 v. glock and AR v. AK.
I think most everything worth saying was said by 2003.
Keith
ps. How's the book coming , Tam?
Isn't that "network managerering"?
ReplyDeleteI thought Tam was talking about Chris Byrne.
ReplyDeleteChris Byrne?
ReplyDelete¿Que?
Chris Byrne is a networking consultant and blogger who moderates a gun board I post on and maybe moderates others. He expresses himself forcefully now and then. I've never seen him stomp anyone who didn't really, really need it.
ReplyDeleteHe's one of those guys you occasionally meet who seems to retain and understand everything he sees, reads, or experiences and who seems to function at a slightly higher speed than the rest of us.
He's taking a beating hither and yon on the internet right now (or at least the small portion of it I wander about on). I, personally, don't believe he deserves the beating.
"The high road" my obese luminescent gluteus maximus.
ReplyDeleteThere's only one board worth posting to, and that's The Gunthing. Everyone there treats you like family.
Well, when I first read this post, I thought Tam wasn't being snarky. I thought she was actually meeting people who know as much as her.
ReplyDeleteSo, I immediately thought of Chris Byrne, who is a network/IT consultant with a doctorate(?) in aerospace engineering.
I should have known there is no "off setting" for snark.
Didn't you just post at TFL about 6 hours ago? Not stalking - I just posted on that topic.
ReplyDeleteI gave up on posting on the gun boards. I still search for info sometimes, but I no longer post.
ReplyDeleteToo much drama and too many trolls.
kbarret, THAT is one 1911 that you will never have to worry about the safety slipping to off while holstered...
ReplyDeleteTHR and TFL will do that to one. Whence comes Tam's keenly-developed sense of snark, methinks, and it seems to have developed even more since the early days when she started on those forums as a moderator.
ReplyDeleteI actually stop by here to see the snark in action, as a sort of gauge.
(The VA's got me on Bupropion for PTSD now. It's doing an OK job of keeping the anger and unbridled snark minimized so far...)
Company "filter" has
ReplyDeletehttp://anarchangel.blogspot.com/
blocked of "raceism and hate" I've read the anarchangel for a while and never seen either. I don't know what triggers the filter but I think it's a product of a narrow mind. Jim B
"There's only one board worth posting to, and that's The Gunthing. Everyone there treats you like family."
ReplyDeleteShhh! You'll have everyone there.
Weetabix said...
ReplyDelete...
[Chris Byrne is] one of those guys you occasionally meet who seems to retain and understand everything he sees, reads, or experiences and who seems to function at a slightly higher speed than the rest of us.
He's taking a beating hither and yon on the internet right now (or at least the small portion of it I wander about on). I, personally, don't believe he deserves the beating.
--
This is the same guy who used Korans for target practice then got upset when he was fired for posting photos of it on his blog, right? The same blog where he brags about kidnapping a guy his friend accused of raping her and then leaving him naked in the middle of the desert to die?
Clearly on another level entirely.
To get back on topic, a lot of the uninformed pontification on guns can be chalked up to the phenomenon that when someone knows next to nothing about something, it's impossible to quantify how little one knows. Thus, those who are prone to high opinions of their own opinions or exercise little critical self-analysis will present as fact whatever pops into their heads.
The last guy who made a habit of demonstrating this was forced to drink hemlock, though, so the practice continues.
From John
ReplyDeleteI'm not a firearms or ballistics expert, just an ordinary hunter / shooter with about 50 years experience missing stuff:-(
I too have spent a lot of time on gun boards.
No, Tam, it's not "cuz you're a girl".
Your posts, and those of literate others-Art, Steve, Ian, Peter, Matt, Lee, Dave (and more)have taught me a lot.
Still lurk, still think Oleg had a great idea-as Rich did-but the Net is like a dignified discussion group which suddenly opens its doors to all.
No vetting of prospective members, just a free-for-all.
H. L. Mencken, where are you in our hour of need?
Ahh..forgot...you already had it right!
What a sad comment the gun boards represent on the current state of education.
I, for one, refuse to read illeterates.
John
It reminds me that such "civility and decorum" takes place even in scientifc society - as the head of the Paleogeophysics and Geodynamics department at a National University says, "Climate scientists are notoriously touchy about non-climate folks "meddling" in their profession, but they have no such qualms when they venture off into statistics or geology or even astrophysics without much knowledge of what they are doing."
ReplyDeleteLook, Oleg originally started THR as a replacement for TFL, when it went down. He wanted to keep the signal to noise ration favorable to the signal side, hence the no-flaming policies. Sure, there's people there who are wrong, and some that are dicks from time to time, but flaming them will not change this one bit.
ReplyDeleteIf you permit such things, then forums will rapidly turn into cesspools, in which case the mods will have to crack down, and this will tend to run off newbies since they're 'not one of the crowd.'
I've seen such things happen time and time again. But take heart, idiots can be weeded out by placing them on your ignore list, or if they're truly bad they can be removed by the moderators.
Again, flaming/snarking newbies or clueless fools isn't productive and doesn't really mesh with Olegs original goal: That of having a rational, somewhat family friendly forum that shows gun owners in a good light, not a cesspool of flamage / snark / verbiage that makes fence sitters and etc. think we're all a bunch of immature dolts.... with guns!
Oh, and it's network manglers> :D
I found THR entirely too prissy to suit me -- but I'm a mean, opinionated type who does not especially care if I look "too scary" to the GFWs of the world.
ReplyDeleteAs I recall, when I pointed out that most men are stronger than I am and that therefore in my own home I will shoot first and ask later, I was soundly chided for my horrible wickedness; it was suggested that the genuinely good-hearted alwys consider if, perhaps, someone might enter their home uninvited by honest mistake (why, my heavens, what if it were a Peace Officer out to Do Me Good?). Hey, could be a little oopsie, despite my locked doors; but they won't be making any more.
Guess I'd've been better off fighting the good fight: Glock vs. 1911! That's what really matters, right?
I refuse to fight about guns. There are any number of self proclaimed experts out there and their advice and expertise is worth exactly what you pay for it. Never pass up a chance to shut up and listen, though.
ReplyDeleteThe best gun in the world is the one you have. Until you can put them all in the black every time, you have no business worrying about what the other guys is shooting.
The small boards are the best.