Also FWIW, they make bike frames with Scandium. Salsa is one brand that comes to mind. The frames aren't *that* much lighter than plain aluminum (maybe half a pound tops), but they're stiffer. Not that much more expensive either.
The Salsa scandium hardtail frame runs about $700ish. A plain aluminum frame from a big name maker would be pretty close to that. So, it appears there isn't much of a price premium for Scandium in the bike industry at least.
6 years of Metallurgical engineering and this is the first use I hear of Scandium.
I'll have the reaserch that, I can't imagine what use tensile strength is in a nose cone. ( mostly compressive forces) Perhaps it helps with formability.
Looks like me and Anonymous tried to post at the same time and my post got borked.
What I tried to say is since scandium increases the strength of aluminum, doesn't that mean you can use less Al and get the same strength but in a lighter piece?
I'll admit I haven't paid much attention to Scandium.
Fatigue resistance is increased quite a bit as well, which is not unusual for alloys of most metals, but you're right about the extremely small amounts that are necessary to get those dramatic increases in tensile performance.
Truly a situation of getting more out of the product than was put in, in most every regard.
Acerbic Anti-EU Brit-Blogger and Kim DuToit fan Tim Worstall is something of a specialist in scandium, and in the scandium business. He and some guys runs a metal trading company out of Moscow (did in 2004 anyhow) called The Low Hanging Fruit Company. My impression was that for a while they owned the European distribution rights. He's on "our" side in many, many ways. :-)
Drat - that's the trashy "Tabloid Site" - IMO the much more interesting one discussing economics and fiscal policy issues (economics interesting?) is at http://timworstall.com/ - my bad.
Also FWIW, they make bike frames with Scandium. Salsa is one brand that comes to mind. The frames aren't *that* much lighter than plain aluminum (maybe half a pound tops), but they're stiffer. Not that much more expensive either.
ReplyDeleteChris
Ok, just did a quick price check...
ReplyDeleteThe Salsa scandium hardtail frame runs about $700ish. A plain aluminum frame from a big name maker would be pretty close to that. So, it appears there isn't much of a price premium for Scandium in the bike industry at least.
Chris
Scandium doesn't make aluminum lighter, but it does increase its tensile strength dramatically...
ReplyDeleteHuh.
ReplyDelete6 years of Metallurgical engineering and this is the first use I hear of Scandium.
I'll have the reaserch that, I can't imagine what use tensile strength is in a nose cone. ( mostly compressive forces) Perhaps it helps with formability.
Looks like me and Anonymous tried to post at the same time and my post got borked.
ReplyDeleteWhat I tried to say is since scandium increases the strength of aluminum, doesn't that mean you can use less Al and get the same strength but in a lighter piece?
I'll admit I haven't paid much attention to Scandium.
Chris
Fatigue resistance is increased quite a bit as well, which is not unusual for alloys of most metals, but you're right about the extremely small amounts that are necessary to get those dramatic increases in tensile performance.
ReplyDeleteTruly a situation of getting more out of the product than was put in, in most every regard.
I think it sounds less cheap with the term "scandium alloy", than with "aluminum alloy"--however more accurate the latter may be.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.scandium.org/Sc-Al.html
ReplyDeleteThe key is reduced grain size... which ends up as higher yield strength and better fatique resistance.
(note: The Dr. is not a metallurgist, or a Dr., but would eventually like to be either)
Acerbic Anti-EU Brit-Blogger and Kim DuToit fan Tim Worstall is something of a specialist in scandium, and in the scandium business. He and some guys runs a metal trading company out of Moscow (did in 2004 anyhow) called The Low Hanging Fruit Company. My impression was that for a while they owned the European distribution rights. He's on "our" side in many, many ways.
ReplyDelete:-)
Drat - that's the trashy "Tabloid Site" - IMO the much more interesting one discussing economics and fiscal policy issues (economics interesting?) is at http://timworstall.com/ - my bad.
ReplyDelete