Anybody who would use the endorsement of someone who has at the very best showed questionable target acquisition skills and at worst is the cold-blooded murderer of a mother with babe in arms, does not deserve my financial support or that of any other freedom-loving American.
What's next from HS Precision? A John Lee Malvo Signature Edition AR-15 stock?
It is hard to believe anyone could be that clueless and still remember to breathe. I've seen cows graze on lifeforms with more foresight.
BONUS!:
Ha. I just sent them a letter making that observation. Also suggested a Charles Whitman Signature Model.
ReplyDeleteWe all need to contact Remington, CZ and any others that we can dig up that use HS as an OEM vendor and let them know what we think.
Joe
Wow, are they *really* that damn clueless? Maybe they can get Obama to endorse them too, that should really boost their sales if they are fishing for a fedco contract.
ReplyDeleteGmac
Completely stupid!
ReplyDeleteI think about all the people in this industry that struggle to make a good impact and then you have a some douche bags like this come along! How earth do people like this stay in business?
Wheeee-oooooooo!!!
ReplyDeleteTalk about the worst ad choice in the world. Man, THAT is tasteless. What is it lately: Zumbo, Cooper Arms, and now H-S? Something in the Branch Water, that the 'shine couldn't kill?
Oh, wella. Let's see how long it takes for Horuchi to get peeled off their label. Heck, I'm surprised that Horuchi lives under his real name and isn't in some retired killer new identity program.
"Hi. I'm Lon, y'r new neighbor. Remember me for that terrific headshot I made on a mother holding her child in her arms? Yeah..I'm a hero, doncha know?"
Sweet Christly Saints!!!
John the Red, still not believing..bilnedia
Damn - that's incredibly poor judgment on the part of - someone - at HS Precision. Are they really that out of touch with American shooter sensibilities? Do they really think that we don't remember Lon Horiuchi's name? You'd think they'd at least be smart enough to simply take that letter and squirrel it away in the back of a drawer, and at most, only use the endorsement to sell other TLA agencies their own set of lady-shootin' rifles.
ReplyDeleteKsR
I am waiting for the Timothy McVeigh Explosive targets.
ReplyDeleteJust because they make neat toys, does not mean they are on our side.
ReplyDeleteWell, I wrote my letters to both HS Precision and CZ-USA. I wanted to write to Remington too, but they don't seem to have an email address posted on their website. Guess I won't be buying any more Remington firearms, if they don't even care enough to put up an email address to receive feedback from gun owners. They went the cowardly chicken-shit route and put up a FAQs page. Fucktards think we have all the time in the world to wade through 16 pages of Qs&As to find the answers we're looking for? I hope they read this blog so they can see how irked that makes me (us).
ReplyDeleteTommy Milner is the name of Remington's CEO. Give him a call...
ReplyDeleteTam: Have you verified that is in fact a "true" ad from H&S? And not something someone had photoshopped onto H&S's website? I would be interested in whether or not they make a comment as to the veracity of this situation.
ReplyDeleteIf true, it is horrible and worse than Zumbo's deal, but before cocking the hammer let's verify if it is in fact an H&S connected endorsement.
All The Best,
Frank W. James
So far, both Codrea and Caleb have rec'd confirmation from HS Precision via email.
ReplyDeleteHey, before we nuke them from orbit, let's give them the benefit of the doubt and see if they make it right.
ReplyDeleteIt's not hard to imagine a scenario where you have some clueless non-shooter from an ad company who puts together the ad which is then reviewed by H-S Precision employees who are also clueless (but not hostile) on RKBA for whatever reason. Maybe they just glanced at the endorser's title and it never occurred to them that anyone so unpopular among shooters could possibly occupy such a position.
I'm in grad school and I don't immediately Google the names of my professors, the authors of my textbooks, or of my co-workers. I found out a few years ago that the authors of one textbook I had during my Junior year were very anti-Semitic and controversial. Sometimes you're unaware of people's reputation, even within your field.
It's a string of cluelessness, but stranger things have happened. There's not necessarily malice or callousness involved in this ad; let's see how things shake out over the next few days.
Too late for me, The Remington LTR came with one of their stocks. However I'd be happy to change to a McMillan for, oh, about $600 :)
ReplyDeleteTam, once again I can only agree with your assessment and sit in awe at your way with words.
ReplyDelete--mariner
If confirmed, then nuke 'em.
ReplyDeleteAll The Best,
Frank W. James
So far, both Codrea and Caleb have rec'd confirmation from HS Precision via email.
ReplyDeletePoint of clarification--my confirmation was via a telephone call I made to them this morning.
Even if I had the money, I would NEVER buy ANYTHING from this sorry outfit...I'd rather buy a crossbow...
ReplyDeleteFirst Cooper, now HS.
ReplyDeleteDid not these people learn from earlier examples that pulling this kind of stab-us-in-the-back action would result in ruination of their companies?
Remember, it's
ReplyDeleteinfo@hsprecision.com
if you'd like to comment.
Peter made the point here that HS had to deal with someone at the FBI, and it happened to be Lon. There is therefore cause to finger the FBI for still employing the guy, and HS for not thinking through what to include in their ads. I mean, had HS not included his name, would anyone would have known, or looked it up? Honestly?
ReplyDelete"Hey, before we nuke them from orbit, let's give them the benefit of the doubt and see if they make it right."
ReplyDeleteI understand the sentiment, but this is one you just can't make right. Too much stupidity went into the decision. Kinda like Monsanto signing Tim McVeigh to endorse fertilizer.
Go ahead and nuke em from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
Vicki was my sister's friend, so this is a little personal. I've included the large scan site at:
ReplyDeletehttp://love-a-luddite.blogspot.com/
reflectoscope said...
ReplyDelete"Peter made the point here that HS had to deal with someone at the FBI, and it happened to be Lon. There is therefore cause to finger the FBI for still employing the guy, and HS for not thinking through what to include in their ads. I mean, had HS not included his name, would anyone would have known, or looked it up? Honestly?"
Fine, the FBI protected the guy from almost certain conviction on manslaughter charges, and HS had to work with him because they assigned him to a project. There's a long, LONG step between being forced to work with the guy on the one hand, and using his recommendation as the capstone of their annual marketing program on the other.
What's next? O.J. Simpson signature cutlery? Somebody call Gerber, I smell an endorsement deal!
Formerflyer
I think there's some overestimation of the fame of Lon Horiuchi. If I hadn't read Jeff Cooper then I'd have no idea who the guy is. I'll bet that even at THR(.us) and TFL less than half of the members, let alone folks who stumble in from Google, have any idea who he is. I'm 26: I was in elementary school when Waco happened, much less Ruby Ridge. If you get someone my age (five years out of college) who designs the ad then the odds are that they have no idea who Horiuchi is, and I doubt they reasonably should be expected to. I read various gun blogs but have never run a Google search on any of them; I presume none of them are objectionable but I've never checked. If any of you are Marines, does the name Jay Grodner ring any bells? I doubt it, but he's the guy who keyed a Marine's car last year and then was a jerk about it.
ReplyDeleteI think there's a strong presumption that someone holding an office with a government agency is your standard faceless bureaucrat. Unless you're pretty much a junkie on an issue, most names are pretty much unrecognizeable to most Americans.
HS Precision made a dumb move, but all we know right now is that they've made it. Let them know that they made it, but stupidity and malice are different things. Let's give them a few days to see what they do.
Keep in mind that they're in a very difficult position right now: if they leave the ad, they tick of gun enthusiasts. If they repudiate an acquitted government official then they risk future sales with a major customer. I don't know what they can do right now; a lot of commenters seem out for blood and are willing to let a company in the gun industry go out of business for what may have been a stupid but non-malicious mistake.
Wolfwood,
ReplyDelete"I'm 26: I was in elementary school when Waco happened, much less Ruby Ridge."
I wasn't born in 1966, but I'd be castigating them if they claimed Charles Whitman endorsed their product...
"If any of you are Marines, does the name Jay Grodner ring any bells? I doubt it, but he's the guy who keyed a Marine's car last year and then was a jerk about it. "
Car keying jerk vs. acquitted murderer under color of law... I'm not seeing the similarity here.
"I don't know what they can do right now..."
They could effin' apologize, admit the ad was tasteless, and make a donation to the NRA or GOA or the JPFO.
Did Jay Grodner kill an unarmed woman, in cold blood (and then lie about it)?
ReplyDeleteI had good luck in calling the marketing directors at Remington, CZ, and Savage. CZ hasn't used HS products in a few years (HS apparently couldn't deliver in sufficient quantity), and Remington and Savage both said they'd look into it. I was disappointed that director at Savage had almost know knowledge of Ruby Ridge (besides having heard the two words), but he did know the word "Zumbo."
ReplyDeletePerhaps the real lesson of this exercise is that "Marketing" people should have a good working knowledge of his "market," including cultural factors.
For those who would urge us to forgive and forget, consider this: would you forgive, say, Cold Steel for accepting an endorsement from OJ? He was actually acquitted; Mr. Horiuchi hid behind sovereign immunity to get the charges dropped.
"There is therefore cause to finger the FBI for still employing the guy"
ReplyDeleteSo a guy who doesn't have the basic skills in target acquisition and thinks that whole, "Know your target and what's beyond," thing is just for others, gets to help select what guns the FBI buys for precision shooters????
Can we now assume Dr. Kevorkian gets to select equipment for the ERs in Trauma Centers?
Wow! SOP for Uncle Sugar.
He is a 54 year old EX FBI sniper. He retired, according to the HS scan in 2006. Pinning "current-FBI sniper" or "There is therefore cause to finger the FBI for still employing the guy" on him is probably not fair. The fact he retired at age 54 might mean he was eased out after all the legal issues were resolved or dismissed on various technicalities.
ReplyDeleteI await the massive pull back at HS, announcing token firings of clueless marketing types and apologies for the misunderstandings. If/when that happens I will still have hard feelings, but it won't be the current gaurantee I'll never buy an HS connected product.
Ronnie Barrett makes fine sniper rifles and will NOT service the state of California or any of their agencies because of the way they misrepresented his product to the press. He even made them drive to his shop to fetch a rifle he refused to fix for them after their acts instead of shipping it to them.
ReplyDeleteH-S Precision knowingly or unknowingly put Lon in their advertising.
Who would you rather buy a thousand yard shooter or sniper rifle from?
I say we feed them what Zumbo and Cooper ate just like we did S&W when they f*cked up. Us gunnies have a long history of holding grudges. I don't see that changing any time soon.
I wouldn't piss in their ears if their brains were on fire.
"Economic downturn, less sales of high end rifles....HEY, I've got an idea! LET'S BITE THE HANDS THAT FEED US!"
FBI and even all US LEOs combined don't buy near as many precision rifles and optics as we do.
H-S Precision must have slept through their Econ courses in college.
The dogs of death have been loosed on H-S precision. I see firings and layoffs in their future.
As I mentioned earlier, this is somewhat personal with me. I rant a little at
ReplyDeletehttp://love-a luddite.blogspot.com/
That bastard.
Jim
If Wikipedia is correct, Lon wasn't acquitted; the case was dismissed.
ReplyDeleteYeah, by the claim of sovereign immunity...
ReplyDeleteThe dismissal was by a black-robed prostitute named Edward Lodge.
ReplyDeleteA Bush mk.1 appointee, btw. Somehow managed to get past an ethics violation probe ( doing his relative's bankruptcy ) to remain on the 9th bench, immediately after doing this bit of dirty work.
"Hey, before we nuke them from orbit, let's give them the benefit of the doubt and see if they make it right."
ReplyDeleteWhat gets drummed into every second-year law school student regarding courtroom procedures: "You CAN'T un-ring a bell."
When I was in High School one of my buddies came from out of state. They had to move from their East Coast home because his dad had done a business deal for a big company and made a lot of money - so what could have been so wrong? His dad had made a really big commission selling a piece of real estate for Hooker Chemical Company - it was called Love Canal.
ReplyDeleteHe was a good friend but his dad was a bit of a cold-blooded asshole and his mom was a country-club queen.
HS Precision can go suck a can of carburetor cleaner.
The Love Canal messwasn't what's commonly assumed.
ReplyDeleteIt saddened me to have to tell members of the LAPD SWAT team that they would have to send someone for their rifle, because I refused to assist anyone or any organization that is in violation of the United States Constitution. In turn, the department arranged to pick up their un-serviced rifle.
ReplyDeleteRonnie Barrett
INCONTROVERTIBLE PRINCIPLES
That's what I look for in people I do business with.
The younger their marketing staff is, the more likely they are, it would seem, to have Google in their blood. And googling his name will pretty quickly net you some results that this guy may not be real popular.
ReplyDeleteI keep seeing people talk about CZ-USA here. How are they related?
Kristopher wrote:
ReplyDeleteThe dismissal was by a black-robed prostitute named Edward Lodge.
In 2001, after an en banc appeal (Idaho v. Horiuchi, 253 F.3d 359 (9th Cir. 2001)), the Circuit remanded the dismissal on sovereign immunity grounds back to District Court (Judge Lodge) consistant with the Circuits opinion. Horiuchi could have been prosecuted for involuntary manslaughter by the State, but the (then) newly elected County Prosecutor (Brett Benson) declined to continue the case and dismissed the charges (Benson now works full time for the Idaho AG's office - nice political move for him!). Stephen Yagman, the special prosecutor assigned to this case in 1997, vehemently disagreed with the decision. The Statute of limitations has run out, and Horiuchi can not now be charged.
Antipitas
[...] Why The Main Stream Media Is Dying [...]
ReplyDelete