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Tuesday, September 20, 2011
All guns break...
Have a classic "Made In West Germany" P-series SIG? How many rounds do you have through it? When's the last time you changed the roll pins that secure the breechblock in the slide?
That said, I doubt the roll pins need replacing unless you remove that breach block. Sig recommends NOT reusing them and I'd bet dollars to donuts that the owner of this wayward BB did reuse the roll pins since new ones are an absolute bitch to get in as Sig uses a roll pin inside a roll pin to keep this from happening.
Not following the manufacturer's recommended maintenance or service can result in awful failures and much shame.
Betcha Og could make up some solid pins in a blink of an eye. Hey, then he could open up an Aftermarket Repair Parts site....hmmm, I smell the Free Market at work.
Oh great. The ex-SWAT armorer-guy who changed my sights mentioned the difficulty of pressing in the new Sig sights - and that maintenance with the older guns was easier to do since the older ones have the roll-pin within a roll-pin which a capable person just might be able to remove with some good tooling and a bench, the newer ones (under new leadership) (2004-'05 etc.?) just have a single mongo roll-pin pressed in with a 2,000lb press (ok I kid and exaggerate) and *that* requires an upgraded bench and toolings to prevent severe damages. I has one of each Sig.
The same armorer tools & method remove the 'old' twin roll pins and the 'new' solid pins, except using a 'cupped' tip punch on the solid pins and a roll-pin punch for the twin pins. Diameters & lengths are the same.
The recommended interval for such service - replacing pins & springs - is 5K rounds or three years, whichever comes first. Either type of pin may fail over time, causing damage to the slide internals and - in the case shown for the older stamped-slide models - damage to the breechblock.
Last armorer class I went to (2009) we were told that SIG was returning to the twin-roll-pin application instead of the solid pin.
Guffaw, my 220 was stolen too. The baggage handlers at DCA even put a broken wrench in case so it felt almost right. Am sure it was in Anacostia before the plane left the tarmac.
I broke a 220 once. Broke a little circular spring that made the decocker run . . . . neutered the gun and the price of the part was about 2/3 shipping and handling, as I recall. Something like $22 total, with the spring costing about $7.
Since 1/3 of my 228's round count for the last three years was shot last weekend, I'm probably ok for a while. it shot so nice I have to shoot it more, though.
Thanks ALL again - and it appears that as of Sig has gone back and forth with different pins including for a while a "spiral pin" that replaced each. Apparently the solid pins broke if you're doing a lot of dry-firing (and no snap-cap), but were (prolly) easier to mfg. and install - until they started breaking...? And now they're back to dual-pins.
Oh oh! Better get MAACO!
ReplyDeleteThat'll buff right out. ;)
ReplyDeletethat's going to leave a mark... on someone's wallet...
ReplyDeleteSo you're saying the SIG went Sauer?
ReplyDeleteA1: ~1,900rnds
ReplyDeleteA2: 15 months ago or 500rnds
That said, I doubt the roll pins need replacing unless you remove that breach block. Sig recommends NOT reusing them and I'd bet dollars to donuts that the owner of this wayward BB did reuse the roll pins since new ones are an absolute bitch to get in as Sig uses a roll pin inside a roll pin to keep this from happening.
Not following the manufacturer's recommended maintenance or service can result in awful failures and much shame.
Joseph,
ReplyDeleteThis was a range rental. Doubt the roll pins had ever been out of the gun, but it did have many, many thousands of rounds through it.
I'd imagine that they probably god old enough that they got out of round and started walking, with the predictable results shown...
Pffft, silly goose, guns don't break. I read it on the Internet.
ReplyDeleteShootin' Buddy, aka "Archangel of Death to Guns"
I had a P220, marked West Germany,
ReplyDeletedidn't put all that many rounds through her, though.
She was in pretty good condition when she was stolen.
I just got a P-6 last month. 200 rds so far. Will keep an eye out for this issue, thanks for the heads up.
ReplyDeleteBetcha Og could make up some solid pins in a blink of an eye. Hey, then he could open up an Aftermarket Repair Parts site....hmmm, I smell the Free Market at work.
ReplyDeleteOh great. The ex-SWAT armorer-guy who changed my sights mentioned the difficulty of pressing in the new Sig sights - and that maintenance with the older guns was easier to do since the older ones have the roll-pin within a roll-pin which a capable person just might be able to remove with some good tooling and a bench, the newer ones (under new leadership) (2004-'05 etc.?) just have a single mongo roll-pin pressed in with a 2,000lb press (ok I kid and exaggerate) and *that* requires an upgraded bench and toolings to prevent severe damages. I has one of each Sig.
ReplyDeleteDirtcrashr,
ReplyDeleteAFAIK, the milled-slide SIGS do not have a separate breechblock, so this is not an issue.
(That should be "...none of the milled-slide SIGs". At least none of the ones of which I am aware.)
ReplyDeleteThe same armorer tools & method remove the 'old' twin roll pins and the 'new' solid pins, except using a 'cupped' tip punch on the solid pins and a roll-pin punch for the twin pins. Diameters & lengths are the same.
ReplyDeleteThe recommended interval for such service - replacing pins & springs - is 5K rounds or three years, whichever comes first. Either type of pin may fail over time, causing damage to the slide internals and - in the case shown for the older stamped-slide models - damage to the breechblock.
Last armorer class I went to (2009) we were told that SIG was returning to the twin-roll-pin application instead of the solid pin.
Guffaw, my 220 was stolen too.
ReplyDeleteThe baggage handlers at DCA even put a broken wrench in case so it felt almost right.
Am sure it was in Anacostia before the plane left the tarmac.
Thanks, I get it, and I see the difference - duh! I'll post a pic.
ReplyDeleteI broke a 220 once. Broke a little circular spring that made the decocker run . . . . neutered the gun and the price of the part was about 2/3 shipping and handling, as I recall. Something like $22 total, with the spring costing about $7.
ReplyDeleteSince 1/3 of my 228's round count for the last three years was shot last weekend, I'm probably ok for a while. it shot so nice I have to shoot it more, though.
ReplyDeleteMatt
St Paul
How do you know if you have a milled-slide SIG? I have a P226 I got used and you've made me slightly uneasy.
ReplyDeleteThanks ALL again - and it appears that as of Sig has gone back and forth with different pins including for a while a "spiral pin" that replaced each. Apparently the solid pins broke if you're doing a lot of dry-firing (and no snap-cap), but were (prolly) easier to mfg. and install - until they started breaking...? And now they're back to dual-pins.
ReplyDelete