. I eagerly read my review copy as soon as it arrived.Some people have complained that the books are thinly-disguised "How To" guides with a story built around them like scaffolding, and others have made note of the preachifying in books that are, after all, written by a deeply religious man. If those were absolute turn-offs, well, Founders will be like going to the zoo: Either you're happy to see the giraffes again, or you're not.
Myself, I enjoyed the book, since it included more backstory on the beginnings of The Collapse, as well as covering the adventures of characters that took place "off-screen" in the first book, thereby filling in the story and tying up loose ends neatly.
If you enjoyed Survivors and Patriots, you'll need no urging to buy this one, and if you haven't tried them, I'd at least suggest reading them with an open mind. There is much useful in there, and you get a page-turning post-apocalyptic Mad-Max-meets-Red-Dawn storyline, to boot.
Never read (or even heard of) Survivors, but I did read Patriots. After the first ten pages or so it was like doing an act of contrition for past sins. Really vile sins.
ReplyDeleteThe notion of writing a 'thinly-disguised "How To" guide with a story built around it like scaffolding' does not offend me particularly. But the story shouldn't ever suck that bad.
Now you tell me there's more? No, thank you.
Joel,
ReplyDeleteBased on other comments, I am guessing that your tastes are more discerning than mine. For instance, I honestly enjoyed Alongside Night, enough to have read it a second time. :o
Ordered two copies this morning.
ReplyDeleteMy taste is somewhat discerning and I had my Bride read "Survivors" rather than "Patriots" simply because I think it's a better read, not for any other reason. Both are excellent and very useful books that I refer to regularly. I expect "Founders" will be such and I expect Rawles' story telling has likewise improved.
If one can't get past the first ten pages of "Patriots" without feeling castigated for past sins, perhaps one might start working on that...
Thanks for the reminder.
ReplyDeleteca
wrsa
Will there be colanders on faces?
ReplyDeleteMike James
I liked Patriots but didn't care that much for Survivors. The second book seemed like Rawles was just calling it in. It definitely could have used a good editor to bring things together better.
ReplyDeleteJWR is too black and white - e.g. good guys attend church, bad guys wear tattoos.
ReplyDeleteAlso, the characters in Patriots and Survivors lacked real flaws. That made them difficult to relate to, which makes the plot difficult to care about.
Not sure if I should waste money on this after reading the other 2.
Better collapse authors:
Matthew Bracken
Glen Tate
Bracken is excellent. I only recently read his published stuff. The covers fo the first three were too evocative of the Turner Diaries for me to look past them. Wasn't till Tam commended a free Kindle download that I tried them and have since bought all of them in multiple copies.
ReplyDeleteI'll still be eagerly looking for the two copies of Founders I ordered today.
Since I have NO published books, I'll try not to complain too much. The books are good for what they are, and each of them have several very entertaining passages.
ReplyDeleteGiven the choice, I'm probably more the 'Unintended Consequences' type than the 'Patriots' type...but I think Rawles creates the more product.
The only real problem I have with Unintended Consequences was that Ross writes what he knows -- and he doesn't appear to know any women that aren't either bitter, vicious ex-wives or strippers.
ReplyDeleteI haven't read any of the , Rawles books. Tam won't share review copies, as they are released to specific individuals.
Received my Kindle version of Founders yesterday...
ReplyDeleteLoved Patriots.
Liked Survivors.
We shall see with Founders...
Rawles and I share many paths, to include serving in the same ASA organization. He settled in Idaho for his retreat, I grew up there. Yet consider it a poor choice in a grid down situation. Yet he is by far way ahead of the curve, compared to most folk.
One could never go wrong reading his material, to include his daily blog IMHO.
Roberta X - You make Ross sound like the luckiest man in the world.
ReplyDeleteThe way JWR writes is simply painful to read.
ReplyDeleteI recall recoiling in horror in one scene, wherein a young guy toting an M-14 comes across the main group of characters. The young guy is detained, disarmed, and is then sat down, and ordered to tell about himself starting with the words, "I was born," and then procedes to do just that.
It goes on for pages and pages and pages, in a seemingly unending exercise in literary agony and butchery.
JWR writes exactly like you would expect a former military intelligence analyst who's only learned about novels from watching too many B-movies would write.
Other than that, the books aren't that bad....
Tam:
ReplyDeleteIf you'll excuse me for being melodramatic for a minute, over the years the cordial, respectful interblogs relationship I've seen between you and Rawles, despite your glaring differences in the most fundamental atoms of your worldviews, has been a learning experience for me.
I read Patriots a few years ago. I found it lacked grounding in reality. The sheer notion that humans in By God America will help each other out in a time of need (as long as we are all out in the country), is in my humble opinion, lunacy. I spoke of the book to my boss, who provided me with a book he was reading, historical non-fiction, about the realities of occupied France during WWII in the French countryside. Any guesses where the non-parallels, between history and fiction began? Well, here is a hint, nobody helped each other.
ReplyDeleteArguably, we here in By God America, aren't French, and are at times a bit more sociable with one another. But Rawles' book reinforced one notion for me that I have experienced again and again in America, you are not welcome, if you have the wrong religion, and the end result will be the same, you won't be helped. Now that part was grounded in some reality.
-Rob
I gave Patriots a try, but couldn't finish it. Too preachy, the villains seemed motivated solely For The Evulz (For example, even dyed in the wool Commies generally don't go cannibal when they've still got a ton of canned goods), and the dialog was as stilted and as bad as my own. The textbooks I'm studying for my CCNA make for better reading.
ReplyDeleteJohn Ross is not the luckiest guy in the world, although I think he has had some interesting times, he makes me sad.
ReplyDeleteStill have a full plate in the library, but will look to see, most get the end wrong, the only way to win is muddle through.
My copy was waiting on me when I got home early yesterday. I finished it before going to bed. While I think it wasn't on the level of his first or second, it was an entertaining quick read. Well worth the time spent.
ReplyDeleteWith respect to all who have commented here, it doesn't have to be deathless prose for me to lose a few hours over a book.
ReplyDeleteI first read "Patriots" online in segments, as "the Grey Nineties", and later as "Triple Ought", bought "Patriots" to have in dead-treeware. I think I got "Survivors" on recommendation of someone online, may have been here. I found it enjoyable. You want a thinly veiled engineering report/product placement festival, try Jerry Ahern's early works. But that doesn't mean I didn't read and enjoy them all, even the hank Frost stuff he wrote as Axel Kilgore. Yeah, they both needed an editor, but nobody stopped to release the safety on their silencer-equipped revolvers. I also read stories on wethearmed.com and enjoy them.
I don't recall bitter, vicious ex-wives in the Ross book, have to re-read it and avert my gaze from the fallen women.
Stay safe
I plan on reading Founders as soon as I can get a copy. In regard to poor writing, I have read a good bit of $h!t that was written well and a good bit of useful information that was written poorly. I consider J. W. Rawles writing style somewhat utilitarian, but very useful and practical. Thank you Tam and Mr. Rawles.
ReplyDeleteI loved Patriots, but I was disappointed to find out in Survivors that if the collapse comes during my upcoming trip to the 'Stan, my most likely survival tactic is going to be to die in place unless I can get a flight out with some friendly Germans. :-/
ReplyDeleteWill be reading mine on the train to Springfield next weekend. If nothing else, it'll make a great conversation ender with 'others'.
ReplyDelete@ Roberta X said...
ReplyDelete> Ross writes what he knows -- and he doesn't appear to know any women that aren't either bitter, vicious ex-wives or strippers.
LOL!
Tam - I have purchased a couple other books based upon your positive reviews, but I'm seriously questioning your judgment on this one. I was a reader of the ,Rawles serials in the 90's so I went into this with my eyes wide open but without reading 1 & 2 of the expanded series. Sheesh, he's learned NOTHING about writing narrative in 15+ years.
ReplyDeleteI trusted your high standards, and now feel betrayed.