(two thumbs up and you should totally watch it super-twisty plot plus brief appearance by David Bowie as Nikolai Tesla...) apparently the gunternet was blowing up because the editor of RECOIL magazine went Full Zumbo and stampeded a whole herd of drama llamas off a cliff, saying scary things about why "civvies" shouldn't own HK MP7's.The ironic thing is that, thanks to the vagaries of 922(r) requirements, a semiauto MP7 clone here would be dumb, awkward, overpriced and just generally turn into eventual CDNN fodder* in the same fashion as the import-neutered G36 variant, the SL8.
So it would have been easy enough to say "HK doesn't manufacture a civilian-legal MP7A1 variant because pointless, that's why," but, no! RECOIL is based out of California, and their editor, Jerry Tsai, has one of those bad cases of Stockholm Syndrome that one sees occasionally in California gun owners that apparently comes from dealing with CA DOJ for too long: He went and blathered about "sporting purposes" and then defended his viewpoint on Facebook and frankly, it's looking like RECOIL magazine is fixing to become a collector's item after only four issues unless some serious damage control can be done.
Frankly, I have no interest in reading it anymore myself (I have purchased issues from the local newsstand) as long as I know that its editorial viewpoint is that Simple Civilians like me have no business with guns whose only purpose is, and I quote, "to put down scumbags". News flash, Jerry: The Glock in my belt isn't there to open Coke bottles.
*For those who don't know, CDNN buys manufacturers' overstock and blows it out at wholesale prices. If you're looking for that special Millard Filmore Commemorative Browning Citori in 28ga that you saw on the cover of American Rifleman two years ago and can't find one on your gun shop's shelves, it's probably because all those dogs wound up at CDNN. Ask your FFL to see their catalog and order you one, weirdo.
EDITED TO ADD:
Sebastian sums it up with a zinger I wish I'd typed:
So I’ll help spread the word, but I just don’t think these guys are a big deal. I’m also not sure this article is going to have much of an effect on their counterstrike kiddie subscriber base. Maybe if they said you shouldn’t own an Airsoft MP7 either, it would be enough to get their subscriber based really worked up.Ouch!
.
What I found...interesting, was that his 'apology' was essentially 'Hey, I'm just parroting Haitch Und Khay's party line.'
ReplyDeleteUm...this is supposed to help?
I am glad I do not own any stock in the company.
ReplyDeleteStranger
It's funny to find a Fudd amongst the pseudo-tactical types.
ReplyDeleteHey, I kinda LIKE CDNN. Where else you gonna find a take-down lever-action 1895 in .30-06 with color-case-hardened side plates?
I have a friend who is infatuated with H@K's, 91,93 and MP5 ,he loves them all. I think the 91 has way to much recoil, 93 is way to heavy for .556, but they do shoot nice. The MP5 is like a semi UZI, worthless in semi auto and without a short barrel. I wasn't really to impressed with the Recoil magazine eather..........;)
ReplyDeleteWhat I found interesting about this (and I was totally unaware of this drama on the gun/interweb because I don't follow that nonsense or even care...) is when I visited Kel-Tec in June I suggested to the marketing gurus that their little .22 Mag carbine was virtually a civilian legal version of the MP7 and as such it would be a hoot to play with.
ReplyDeleteBut what do I know about guns and shooters???...
All The Best,
Frank W. James
Frank W. James,
ReplyDeleteOf course, the Kel-Tec has the advantage of being domestically-produced and therefore getting to skip all that 922(r) garbage...
"whole herd of drama llamas off a cliff"
ReplyDeleteThat's on eof the signs of the Alpacalypse
meh. sounds like H&K went to the Jerry Springer School of How To Get Noticed. they got a bunch of notice so i guess it worked.
ReplyDeletei don't own any of their stuff so it's all academic to me.
(Alpacalypse. *snerk*)
Critter,
ReplyDeleteThis has nothing to do with HK and everything to do with the anti-2A editor of a supposed gun magazine.
Am I the only one who has never heard of "Recoil" magazine? Pretty funny to read about people getting huffy about a .22 mag.
ReplyDeleteNot sure I buy all of HK's 922(r) excuses. FNH seems to get all their scary looking guns into the U.S. intact, even their evil, cop-killing 5.7mm carbines and pistols.
There are 2 things that shock me about this...
ReplyDelete1) People still read magazines
2) No one has made a reference to "reducing recoil"
It also reminds me a great quote... "Nothing kills a bad restaurant faster than good marketing."
I slick name, good production quality and poor content will ensure it is short lived.
Bram,
ReplyDelete1) Count the "conspicuously protruding" pistol grips on a PS90 or FS2000. (That would be zero, which would allow for the flash hider.)
2) Are we sure the civvie PS90s are not manufactured at FNH's Columbia, SC plant?
3) There's nothing in 922(r) or GCA '68 that would affect the FiveSeveN pistol.
Of course, H&K's not the point, it's irrelevant, it could've been any gun that Zumbo Jr. was happy to have kept out of the 'slimy' hands of his customers.
ReplyDeleteIt's great to see how many gunnies have realized that quisling fudds who will happily compromise away anything without a sporting purpose(no, modern sports like IDPA aren't sporting purposes) are just as bad as the brady bunch. And enough of us hold this belief and are letting companies know that we will not buy from a company who advertises with Zumbo wannabes that the demise of Recoil will be an abject lesson.
If the other gun rags are paying attention, writers and editors pushing fudd views should become about as common as rifle companies running ads featuring Lon Horiuchi.
I owned and loved my PS 90, had to sell cause of debt. as for the HK variant, it looks like it'd turn out like a way overpriced Cobray. In a semi auto version with a stock and 16' barrel it might make a nice little home defense or small game/varmint number but you know it'll cost $3k if it costs a dollar and that alone would kill almost all interest.
ReplyDeleteI think it was the line about 'It comes with semi-automatic and full-auto firing modes only.' that annoyed the hell out of me: "What, you know a select-fire autoloader that DOESN'T?"
ReplyDeleteI'm amused with both the majority of H&K products and, as you so wonderfully put it, the practitioners of modern wankfare, but this is somewhat off-topic, so please forgive me.
ReplyDeleteThe Lefties are passing large bricks with very sharp corners over the haveblue.org receiver flap. Have you been to the site yet, and are you working on any relevent snarks?
Firehand, That one got me too. Is there a firing mode someone snuck in while I wasn't looking?
ReplyDeleteCDNN has a pretty good selection of hard to find magazines too. I have a couple of customers that order from there. They only cut us dealers a 10% break on their catalog prices. I guess if the had something I wanted for personal use they would be ok, but I get a better discount from Zanders.
I guess the H&K fanboy needs to explain to me how this machine pistol is deadly to Soviet body armor at 300 yards when a 22 mag is a 150 yard rifle on woodchucks.
ReplyDeleteGerry
Maybe I don't remember too clearly, but I could swear I got to handle something not unlike a civvie-compliant MP7 clone at the DSA booth a few years ago at the NRA convention in STL (not the one this year, but the last time).
ReplyDeleteI remember thinking of it like Tam- "Sure would be fun if not for that pesky NFA, but it's really big and bulky for what amounts to a semiauto pistol." It would be a nice little buzzsaw in full auto with a shoulder thing that goes up, but otherwise it just didn't interest me.
However, I do have a problem when somebody who is supposedly on my side of the gun enthusiasm issue is eager to look at certain guns as "just too dangerous" for me to own. I manage to not create mayhem with my already not insignificant personal arsenal of democracy, I doubt even a brand new aitchundkay subgun with the happy switch is going to take me over the edge.
The Raving Prophet,
ReplyDelete"Maybe I don't remember too clearly, but I could swear I got to handle something not unlike a civvie-compliant MP7 clone at the DSA booth a few years ago at the NRA convention in STL"
That's their civvie-market version of the Brügger & Thomet MP9, itself a copy of the earlier Steyr TMP, which was a wretched, malfunctioning ball of suck and fail.
"wretched, malfunctioning ball of suck and fail."
ReplyDeleteI was briefly temped, now I'm glad I saved the thousand bucks.
As far as the SP89 being a failure, I think it is more of a marketing failure than a flawed product. I have fired them, and as they will never take place of my trusty AR-15 style carbine, they are fun to shoot and with 9mm prices what they are, a relative bargain. The cheapest I have seen them at the gun show is $1600, far above their $1100 supposed market value.
ReplyDeleteI don't think this current magazine will be around long, but I'm sure Recoil will reform with the same players in a new reincarnation such as, Windage mothly, or such, and the same folks will subscribe.
Craig,
ReplyDeleteThe HK94 sold well, but the SP89s moved off dealer shelves with all the alacrity of a condemned man on his way to the chair.
It wasn't so much to do with marketing, but rather because it was a 9mm pistol that was as big as a house and was priced like a half-decent used car (late '80s dollars).
Someone wanting one of those ghey "assault pistols" could get a TEC-9 or M-11 for less than a third of the cash. Or they could spend a hundred more bucks and get an MP5 clone with a shoulder stock and a longer barrel in the HK94.
If it weren't for the Bush/Bennett imported AWB of '89, the SP89 would probably be a reasonably-priced discontinued oddity, a la the VP70, rather than the unimportable collector's rarity it is now.
Ah, your memory is better than mine. That looks about right, and 9mm sounds correct for the chambering.
ReplyDeleteI just remember thinking that the price was way out of line for something that was less useful than any plastic fantastic 9mm at less than half the price.
Actually got to handle what I assume was a dealer sample MP7 at the Knoxville Gun Show Saturday. I won't lie, I got a bit excited to see and handle one. I will say that for a PDW, it seemed well designed--comfortable to handle, and able to shrink to a nice compact package. Having never fired it or a P90, only handled them, I would probably vote for the HK, though it could still be better.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, I can't see paying FN or You suck and we hate you prices for either gun, even if 922(r) and NFA disappeared overnight. Especially since I've been disappointed enough with the poodle shooter when shooting raccoons and foxes. If I'm going to shell out that much money, I want something that hits with more authority--who knows, might be able to get something else, magazines, and a case of ammo for practice for just the cost of the HK Unicorn Tears 7.
"disappointed enough with the poodle shooter when shooting raccoons and foxes"
ReplyDeleteIf you think that's bad, I'll bet that .17 caliber Armor Piercing bullet would be underneath and looking up at 5.56 FMJ in terms of effectiveness. FWIW, the Georgia Arms 55 gr .223 loads with either Ballistic Tips or V-Max bullets works very well for small furry critter dis-assembly.
If ya ain't in the military, or talking about the military, that word "civilian" should not be uttered.
ReplyDeleteFirehand: The M-3 Greasegun had only one mode ... FA.
ReplyDeleteThe cocking handle was replaced with a simple finger-hole in the bolt for the M3A1.
Apology is up on his website ... meh.
ReplyDeleteOn the subject, is anyone else here annoyed with the fact that these guns, all made using the most transparently agressive cost savings measured, are so goddamned expensive? I mean if the barrel's $200 bucks then an entire Stamped, injection molded MIM'ed thing ought to cost $4-600
ReplyDeleteKristophr, sometimes it's easier to just say "civilian" rather than run down the assorted laws covering what we regular non-government citizens can buy without jumping through all kinds of regulatory hoops. Saying "semiauto, non-SBR, 922r compliant" and whatever else just takes forever and makes the sentence harder to follow. Saying "civilian-legal" may not be 100% accurate in every and all instances but it gets the point across.
ReplyDeleteNews flash, Jerry: The Glock in my belt isn't there to open Coke bottles.
ReplyDeleteIt could be.
(With one of these to bridge the gap.)
Sigivald:
ReplyDeleteYes, but isn't that what the Galil is there for?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=089bENVEN6U
ReplyDeleteGlock bottle opener.
-SM
I was going to have some fun with this post
ReplyDeletehttp://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2011/01/happy-new-year.html
But the photo is all gone.
Bummer
Terry
Fla.
ReplyDelete"2) Are we sure the civvie PS90s are not manufactured at FNH's Columbia, SC plant?"
My FS2000 purports to be made in Belgium. I can't think of anything different about the PS90 which would require over-here manufacture.
Firehand:
ReplyDeletein the interest of completeness, there's also the "burst" feature on a number of select-fire weapons. Prominent among them, of course, is the M16A2.
Woof! Let's not pound too hard on the poor working stiffs at CDNN! At least we don't sell bayonets for handguns (we came close though!)
ReplyDeleteYes ... a few of the CDNN minions keep a wary eye peeled on gun totin' female yanks ...
ReplyDeleteThere are exactly two HK products I geek out a bit about and that's the PSG1 and the 21E... and I'd still rather have a Knight Armaments SR25 than a PSG1(mostly because the PSG1 weighs nearly twice as much). I'm also fully aware the 21E has issues. I still geek out about it because it's a friggin machine gun that's accurate enough for sniper rifle duty if you scope it.
ReplyDeleteAnons 5:05 & 5:10,
ReplyDeleteHey, if it hadn't been for CDNN, I never would have owned a Mateba Unica 6! (Or the S&W 296 that rides in my purse to this day! :D)
Tam said...
ReplyDeleteAnons 5:05 & 5:10,
Hey, if it hadn't been for CDNN, I never would have owned a Mateba Unica 6!
I think I just had a geekgasm.
CDNN used to have Metalform 8 round 1911 .45 mags for under $13 each but I can't find them on the site now.
ReplyDeleteYes, I forgot about the burst setting on some.
ReplyDeleteHey, wouldn't that make it even MORE too dangerouser for us civvies to have?
Raving Prophet: And sometimes it is just easier to let statist thugs redefine the language.
ReplyDeleteI will continue to castigate anyone that uses the word "civilian" to describe people who do not work for a police department, and consider beating them to death with a hardbound copy of Robert Peele's signature work.
So if I get this; We are talking about a magazine from commi-fornia. That thinks I shoun't have an over-priced, overrated BB-gun, that dumps whole mags out at warpspeed? A wepon made to do somthing that a 1973 CAR-15 could do at 1/4 the price? P.S. VP 70s were awful. To heavy for a hand gun to light for a SMG very high ROF and sprayed round everywhere.
ReplyDelete"P.S. VP 70s were awful. To heavy for a hand gun to light for a SMG very high ROF and sprayed round everywhere."
ReplyDeleteWhile the VP70s were indeed awful, with wretched triggers that felt just like the ones on those kiddie guns that shot the plastic discs, the "M" variants with 'Da Switch' only fired semi or 3-rd burst, and the latter at a high enough cyclic rate that keeping all the rounds on paper wasn't much of a chore. It's not like you could do a mag dump over the berm...
Mikael - I really like the idea of the 21E too. Never a big fan of the open bolt light machine guns.
ReplyDeleteI always thought it would be a lot less training and confusion to have light machine guns with similar operating systems as rifles.
And, yeah - an MG that can snipe is cool.
It isn't the Millard Filmore Commemorative Browning Citori in 28ga that has my attention, it's the Chester Arthur Mossberg in 20 that I've a hankering for.
ReplyDeleteTam, if you really want to get your noggin tied into a pretzel, Google some of the theories about The Prestige (the movie version). Particularly the idea that Tesla's machine didn't really do what it supposedly did in the movie. Remember: all of that jazz was recounted in a diary that was ginned up to mess with the other guy's head.
ReplyDeleteWell, Bram, I'm a fan of belt-fed MGs that can lay down large volumes of support fire, yet can remain in overwatch indefinately afterwards without risking a cookoff. {grin}
ReplyDelete