I could probably hie myself to MCF&G this week, too, and get the FACOG
atop the M&P15-22 dialed in like I've been meaning to do for a bleedin' year now.Caleb had a post up recently about the deuce-deuce M&P carbine as a defensive choice, which was interesting in that I had recently been musing that in a situation like that faced by the Korean shopkeepers in the '92 Los Angeles riots*, I'd hand my neighbor the .22 AR as a spare long gun without a qualm.
It looks scary and makes noise, which is important because the most important use of long guns in those scenarios was as a deterrent and, push-come-to-shove, it's a lot easier for a novice to operate and make hits with than any of the other spare long guns I have lying around. The thought of a marginally-trained person not much over five feet tall wrestling with a Garand or Mosin M44 on short notice is daunting; by comparison, a dot-sighted rimfire AR is practically an iGun.
*Laugh if you want, since there hasn't been an honest-to-gawd burning overturned cop cars in the streets riot within ten blocks of where I'm sitting in about fifteen years.
'Any gun is better than no gun', indeed. And a scary-looking EBR the neighbor can actually HIT somethig with, well, definite bonus points there!
ReplyDeleteAgreed - I think most rioters want to grab some loot and "stick it to the Man" rather than get into a pitched gun battle. Giving them an "OMG - I've been shot!" moment without being likely to kill them is good enough for me.
ReplyDelete*Laugh if you want, since there hasn't been an honest-to-gawd burning overturned cop cars in the streets riot within ten blocks of where I'm sitting in about fifteen years.
ReplyDeleteI haven't been near one since the summer of '67, but it's funny how you never leave the thought of them out of your preps ever afterward.
not much chance of the Thundering Herd happening here in Lower Alabama unless one counts the neighbor's cattle getting into the turnip field. of course, just any excuse to buy more ebil assault guns is welcome.
ReplyDelete"iGun"....man, I love that! "There's a caliber for that!"
ReplyDeleteYou may have a tough time getting your plinker back after they neighbor takes a few cracks at the rioters.
ReplyDeleteGerry
I went with the Bushnell TRS-25 on my S&W. Been a great combo thus far.
ReplyDeleteHey, I had a range day yesterday. Unfortunately I was having trouble keeping them all in the black of a SR-1 center from 100 with my '03-A3.
ReplyDeletehttp://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp182/ScottJ175/WP_000504.jpg
Don't know if the problem was my aging eyes or the new load I was testing. I should have brought some of a known good load to compare.
I was also surprised how busy my range got on a weekday.
Everything you said is true - but I keep thinking we can get the same benefit while using a skosh more...effective...cartridge? But no question, .22lr beats a sharp retort any day of the week. I'm still waitin' on a 20 - 30 rnd. capacity .22mag. - .32 - .380/9mm carbine I can afford, not nessisarily an AR platform, w/ quick-change box magazines....
ReplyDeleteI was in LA during the Rodney King riots, I am not laughing.
ReplyDelete"The thought of a marginally-trained person not much over five feet tall wrestling with a ... Mosin M44 on short notice is daunting...."
ReplyDeleteYes. but the fireball from the first shot of the Mosin 44 has a special deterrent effect all its own. Plus, bayonet!
"a dot-sighted rimfire AR is practically an iGun".
ReplyDeleteHeh. Love it. Of course, the iGun is only usable with Apple ammo from the Apple outlet...
What caliber for spammers?
ReplyDeleteKenO:
ReplyDeleteAutofire BB pellets to the groin on a minute per message rate?
Theoretically non-lethal and they have copper to turn into recycling as an added bonus!
Sklutch
JohninMd, here's your 30-rd .22 mag...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.americanrifleman.org/blogs/kel-tec-rmr-30/
Oh, yeah, one small problem......here in the P.D.R. of Md. (People's Dem. Rep. of Md.), we have what's known as the Handgun Roster Board. This entity's job is to prevent an unsuspecting subject er, citizen from purchasing an ebil saturday night special. If it ain't on "the list", no sellee in Md. then the Governer put this agust body in charge of " assult weapons". No magazine legal for sale over 20 rnds. Also these rifles go thru the same waiting period as pistolas. Sense a pattern here?
DeleteAlan J:
ReplyDelete.22LR is surprisingly lethal. Problem is that they might not die for many days. If they don't drop within a few seconds, they most likely are still going to be functional, which means still dangerous. In some cases, they may not realize they have been shot.
It's killed a hell of a lot of people around the world, but it's just not a good manstopper. Which is why you tell the shooter to keep hitting them until they fall down or run away. Lots of full magazines would be appropriate for this sort of scenario. And a mag loader.
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ReplyDeleteI believe the late Col. Cooper advocated for the 10/22 as a riot control weapon, especially if silenced.
ReplyDeleteYou get a low noise and flash signature. True, the .22 is not a great man-stopper, but in a riot situation, somebody takes a .22 LR to the lung; it isn't going to kill them right off, but it should definitely provide incentive to see a doctor pretty darn quick. "Coughing up blood" is a good deterrent for most people, I'd think.
I understand during the Infantida, the Israelis used suppressed 10-22 w scopes to do riot control. Idea was to find the instigators and shoot them in the knee for later collection. The practice apparently ended when the trigger pullers figured why bother with wound & collect when an eye shot settled the issue pemanently.
ReplyDeleteSaw the Rodney King Riots first hand ... Scared the bejeebus out of me. No rioters are getting within 100 yards of my position again.
ReplyDelete& my neighbors have excellent eye-hand coordination, too!
Ulises from CA
iGun...
ReplyDeleteThere's an app for that!
gfa
JohninMd.:
ReplyDeletea pistol caliber carbine in somethng other than .22, did ye say? well, have I got a deal for you!
http://www.justrightcarbines.com/
at you local firearms emporium.
iGun, love it, just like everybody else... And the .22 is amazingly effective for head shots.
ReplyDeleteOld NFO:
ReplyDeleteonly if it gets into the brain cavity. That requires precise placement. Eye socket or temple would be the locations for self defense applications. Brainstem from the rear, if you aren't concerned about possible legal ramifications. Forget the mouth, as teeth turn out to be fairly good at stopping bullets from getting to the brain.
A hit anywhere else most likely won't penetrate. It appears even .38 (most likely RNL) has the same problem. Lots of incidents where both calibers end up traveling under the scalp, and popping out on the other side of the head, causing a bloody mess. No real damage beyond a headache, or possible concussion. To the shooter, it looks like it was a fatal hit, though.
To the shooter, it looks like it was a fatal hit, though.
ReplyDeleteI bet to the shootee it's pretty disheartening as well.
Gerry: If it comes down to kill or be killed, the rifle is ultimately expendable.
ReplyDeleteReplacing a rifle lost to a grabby cop is much cheaper than taking a dirt nap.
I dated a girl who was shorter than my M91+bayonet. It was kinda funny.
ReplyDeleteOf course, that really is a giant goddamn boat oar of a rifle.
Fer wahtcha guys are talking 'bout a 10-22 would stop me from yer lawn.
ReplyDeleteJust sayin.
Now I'm wondering, would the Aguila SSS ammo penetrate skulls better? That 60-grain bullet just might.
ReplyDeleteDammit, I need more water jugs.
I'll note that the stuff runs quite well through my 15-22; not match-accurate, but does pretty well at 50 yards.
On optics, about a year ago Primary Arms had a sale on some factory seconds(marks on the body) of these:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_Arms_GEN_2_AA_Battery_Multi_Reticle_Red_Do_p/pam4g2m.htm
and I picked one up. So far, can't say a bad thing about it. Still on the original battery, and hasn't shifted zero or done anything else obnoxious.
Kristophr:
ReplyDeleteI interpreted Gerry's comment to mean that the neighbor wouldn't want to give it back to the loaner, after repelling boarders. Might be feeling a bit fond of it at that point.
He can pay for it now, or later on in small claims court.
ReplyDeleteNo free rifles or lunches.
The weather here in Southern Flarduh has been absolutely delightful for the last week or two; CAVU, and I mean Severe Clear, and about 70 F at the highest. Unfortunately, that just encourages Those People, as General Lee called them. It seems there are more of them here than ever.
ReplyDeleteI need to print up a bumper sticker I imagined years ago, to wit,
"Save South Florida! Bring back Yellow Fever!"
Shooting HVAC equipment prolly wouldn't hurt, either. I would spare the A/C equipment keeping important documents dry, of course.
I'll second the TRS25 recommendation. Mine has worked out pretty well on a CMMG 9mm AR.
ReplyDeleteScofflaw
A dot sighted U.S. carbine, caliber 30, M1 is pretty spanky too, for the same reasons. Lots of sweetness, light, and love for the new shooter. -- Lyle
ReplyDeleteperlhaqr said...
ReplyDeleteI dated a girl who was shorter than my M91+bayonet. It was kinda funny.
Of course, that really is a giant goddamn boat oar of a rifle.
Dude, I'm shorter than an 1891 Poison Maggot with cat-roasting-skewer attached. (Whaddya think those Uzbeks ATE in the ruins of Berlin until the 'B' echelon rolled in?)