In my previous post some people got a small case of the butthurt at my implication that shoveling sidewalks was one of the neighborly duties of living inside the palisade.
Don't get me wrong: I don't think it should be a matter of law. After all, they don't give you a ticket if you're the kind of person who doesn't say "please" and "thank you" to cashiers and restaurant waitstaff, so I don't see why they should give you one for not clearing your walks of navigation hazards.
In a perfect world, you would have the option of tearing the sidewalk up and thereby signifying a desire to not play in our civilizational reindeer games, but as it stands, an ice-covered sidewalk is practically an attractive nuisance for adults and I and eleven of your other peers would probably look dimly on you should an injury arise because of your failure to maintain it.
I always thought that sidewalks in neighborhoods were there for the convenience of the property owner, so there wasn't a strip of dust/mire from beside the roadway, and that clearing it was an act of good manners.
ReplyDeleteWhen I lived in New York, I used the tractor to clear neighbours' driveways before dawn. Fun surprise!
Well, as a proud owner of a Sidewalk, since I do make the effort to remove the Global Warming off of it, would all the Dog Owners who take Fido with them on their Stroll to the Local Latte Express CLEAN UP YOUR DOG CRAP!
ReplyDeleteI guess we all have that issue that we get all butthurt over, but compelled sidewalk shoveling is pretty low on my list. Not that you were suggesting that and I read the post in question and not once thought "Tam turned commie!" or "How DARE she!"
ReplyDeleteCommon courtesy, who'd a thunk it... :-) When I was a kid (and the two times I saw snow), us kids were out at the crack of dawn to shovel walks for $2...
ReplyDeleteBubblehead Les,
ReplyDelete"Well, as a proud owner of a Sidewalk, since I do make the effort to remove the Global Warming off of it, would all the Dog Owners who take Fido with them on their Stroll to the Local Latte Express CLEAN UP YOUR DOG CRAP!"
I have had dog owners let their dogs defecate on the lawn with me sitting right there on the porch reading.
It is, sadly, not acceptable to shoot the dog right there, so other remedies must be applied, ranging from loudly calling in a cheerful tone "Oh, it's okay, I'll pick that up for you and Fluffy!" (works best if there are lots of neighbors out doing yardwork and suchlike) to bringing the miscreant some Kroger bags I just so happened to have handy, saying "Oh, here, I see you forgot yours." with a friendly and helpful smile.
I just go the mental image of Tam doing the whole Galadriel "All will love me and despair" thing. Awesome.
ReplyDeletes
Do unto others is always the best policy even if they dont do unto you
ReplyDeleteat least for me
Here in the People's Democratic Republic of Maryland, many counties *do* mandate clearance of sidewalks. In my neighborhood, many of us will help those who are older or disabled by clearing all or part of their sidewalk. Not because of a law, but because it's the right thing to do. Which I think was the point of your post.
ReplyDeleteChris,
ReplyDeleteIt's a city ordinance here, too, but, you know, "Stop Snitchin'"... :D
I shovel the Democrat Next Door's walks in the winter. She mows Roseholme's front lawn in the summer. Most years I get the better end of the deal. ;)
Google isn't much help here.
ReplyDeleteWhat is this 'snow' stuff you people keep yammering on about?
"It is, sadly, not acceptable to shoot the dog right there "
ReplyDeleteSo how 'bout a paintball at the dog-walker? It's really their bad manners; the dogs are jsut bein dogs...
The idea of not getting up and shoveling the sidewalk is so foreign that I find it all most unbelievable.
ReplyDeleteMy dad worked in a steel mill and if it snowed we were up to shovel out his car so he could go to work. Standing orders were to finish shoveling the side walk and the walk to the house before school or as soon as we got home. Yes boys and girls, on our planet we went to school in the man-made global wetness because they put chains on the school buses. After our neighbors’ husband died we did her walks and driveway as well. We were allowed to take a mug of hot chocolate but never any money for the keeping her place cleaned up.
I do realize some people are medically incapable of shoveling heavy wet snow. The rest are just too fat or lazy to be bothered.
Gerry
Here in the socialist-paradise of Minnesnowta, the major city Minnepoopalis has that same 24-hour ordinance. It's fascinating to note that the middle-class neighborhoods uniformly have shoveled walks, while both the ghettos and the wealthy 'hoods go largely uncleared. As I've noted before, in really big snowfalls I'm usually out there with the big 'blower, cleaning my drive, the neighbors on all four sides (including across the alley), and then making a couple of passes up and down the whole block out in front. Once you've got the thing fired up, the incremental cost (time and gas) to do that is almost nothing, and it pays off with grateful neighbors.
ReplyDeleteMy pet peeve of late has been the parking in front. I take great pains to shovel the walk from street-to-sidewalk clear to the edges, since you never know when a fire hose or ambulance gurney will need to make it through there. If everybody does it right, we can get two vehicles on each side of the cleared space, leaving it open for people to use.
Lately the a$$holes have been parking their SUV's right smack in front of the cleared area. Maybe the passenger can get out and onto the sidewalk, but nobody else can. With nobody in front of them, all they'd have had to do is pull up another 5 feet, and everybody could get through to the street. I don't know if they're stupid or venal, since the end result is so similar.
I've been informed that pulling the valves out of their tires may be a slight over-reaction to such behavior. It's everything I can do to not fall to the temptation of dropping the truck into 4-wheel low, and just SHOVING their vehicle forward the 5-feet to clear the entry. Sigh.
All you butthurts: This isn't complicated. There are things you should do in order to live in a cultured society, and things you should be punished for if you don't. They are not necessarily the same set of things.
ReplyDeleteBeing unable to distinguish between the two is guaranteed to get you a police state.
jf
On the other hand, I am a proponent of the 8 hour daytime "rule".
ReplyDeleteI.e. you have a business day to clear the walk after the snow ceases to fall.
Some people do not have time/energy/courage in the morning darkness to year the walks, I get it, and they can do it when they get home from pushing electrons uphill.
Also old folks have a blanket pass. I don't need Mr. OldFart dropping dead from heart attack.
When I lived in Iowa (40 mi south of the MN border, aka the Lutefisk Line) you had until 10:00 AM to clear your sidewalk and drive, then it was $10 per hour fine after that, not to exceed $1000. A bunch of college students and other people would contract with the snowbirds to shovel the walks and drives of the empty houses at either a flat fee per snow, or $X per month on retainer. I may or may not be on record for having had uncharitable thoughts about the city snowplow driver who covered part of my apartment's drive and walk after I'd cleaned it (I got a rent discount for helping).
ReplyDeleteLittleRed1
I have had dog owners let their dogs defecate on the lawn with me sitting right there on the porch reading.
ReplyDeleteYep. One had the mild decendy to at least look embarrassed, say she'd "forgotten" her bags, and say she'd come back later to clean it up. (World of shock, she was lying.)
If I didn't think it'd result in broken windows on my cars, I've been tempted at times to say "Hey, you've got hands. Your lack of planning is not my problem. I bet you'll remember next time."
Ah well.
As far as shovelling the walks goes... I don't own a snow shovel, here in New Mexico. But the problem usually takes care of itself by noonish anyway.
PER THE NYC ADMINISTRATIVE CODE THE PROPERTY OWNER IS REQUIRED TO CLEAR THE SIDEWALK WITHIN 4 HOURS AFTER THE PASSAGE OF THE STORM
ReplyDeleteAS TO LEAVING CANINE WASTE IN SITU THE DOG OWNER IS ALSO REQUIRED TO CLEAN UP AFTER THEIR DOG
THE CITY HAS LEGIONS OF SUMMONS WRITERS TO GENERATE REVENUE AND SCORES AND OF ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGES TO ADMINISTER "DUE PROCESS" MAJOR CREDIT CARDS ACCEPTED JUST LIKE PARKING TICKETS
THEN THERE ARE BATTALIONS OF SLIP AND FALL LAWYERS...
I have neither sidewalks to clear nor neighbors to be bothered by uncleared sidewalks. It's a win for everyone involved.
ReplyDeleteIn February, Kansas City put out the word about the city ordinance through the local news outlets, including the phone number to call to report uncleared sidewalks. I suspect they received more calls about city owned property than they expected; I have not heard a peep about the issue since our storm this past weekend.
ReplyDeleteI mow the snow on my sidewalk and walkway to avoid have the postman or some jogger sue my ass off for slipping in front of my house.
ReplyDeleteThis is like having the state order me to wear a seatbelt, or to breath and not hold my breath until I pass out.
Annoying nannyists ordering me to do something I would have done anyway.
Like Blackwing1 I'm in Minneapolis. I grew up with a father that made it clear moving snow is the upright thing to do. When it's deep enough to get the snow blower out of the garage I do the block at the same time. Neighbors remember the courtesy.
ReplyDeleteWalking our two golden retrievers twice a day you get to know the assholes who don't clear their walk ways. Apparently, many of them work for the city's park system. I gotta get out of this place.
PS: Yes, people that don't pick up after their dogs should find themselves right next to child molesters and people that talk in the theater when they get to hell.
I haven't read through all the comments, but one issue is that there have been court cases where the property owner is liable should they decide to clear their sidewalk and somebody slips and gets hurt, while you are safe if you let mother nature run her course.
ReplyDeleteI personally clear mine and several neighbors if it's enough to get the power equipment out, but every time I do, I think about the liability issues and am thankful for my $1M umbrella policy.
DarrenS,
ReplyDeleteIf you've made a good faith effort at clearing, then you want me on the jury.
(Conversely, if you haven't, you don't. ;) )
ReplyDeleteRe: Philadelphia, what Navigator said, time limits and all.
ReplyDeleteMy sidewalk is 15 feet wide, and if I get to it soon enough after the snow ends, I can use one of those outdoor push-brooms. Quiet, efficient and I don't have to lift a shovel.
Stay safe
When I lived in town, I grumped about while clearing my sidewalk when it snowed...finally moved out in the middle of nowhere...now I have to get out the tractor and clear the 1.5 mile stretch of the dirt road that runs east-west and drifts badly. It takes much more time, but I am happier doing it.
ReplyDeleteSnow plow on the 4-wheeler. Plowing my sidewalk takes one pass - all of about 15 seconds if I take my time, and it cleans a swath 48" wide in one pass.
ReplyDeleteit's also very fun. I will neither confirm nor deny that turning donuts on a compacted ice street at 6 in the morning out in front of my house on a 4-wheeler is a stupid amount of fun.
Generally speaking, it is easier to remove snow if you start when it gets to just a couple inches or so. Depends somewhat on the type of snow. Heavy, wet stuff, get to it sooner.
ReplyDeleteEven with power equipment, some variation of this should be used. Less wear/tear on the system, so less breakdowns, and longer life expectancy of it.
You can usually move faster, so the total time involved may not be that much different. Plus, if you break your equipment, or yourself, while moving a maximum amount at once, the time it will cost you is typically not insignificant.
I don't live in snow country, but I get it.
ReplyDeleteOTOH, I've watched legions of doogie poo criminals. I find that returning it to them inside a flaming brown paper sack on their front step as they sit down to dinner ususally solves the problem, and soothes my own sense of cosmic justice.
Captain Passive Aggressive, at your service!
In my miscreant youth, possessed of both an AR and a shoebox full of blanks, I can state for the record than many breeds, unattended and caught in the act, demonstrate the ability in mid-effort to suck it in, and relocate to parts unknown at high rates of speed in response to loud noise.
Well, if you are physically [or financially] capable of clearing a walkway along your property it is a good idea.
ReplyDeleteIt is the legal bits that got to me a while back where I used to live. The concrete sidewalk is, in good weather, the property of the loca government: i.e. if you repair a crack you have violated the law and pay a fine. But in bad weather, that sidewalk belongs to you, and if you do not clear it tyou have violated the law and pay a ($600, smoe years ago!) fine.
Thgis was even more complicated because I rented the second floor of a house from the property owner. The laws mentioned meant he used his snowblower at the front on the main road, but the side road's walk was up to me, presumably because his entrance was at the front while mine was at the side.
I never did find out what was done for absentee-owner multiple-dwelling apartment-rental places.
I will admit to not cleaning up after my dog when we go for our walk.
ReplyDeleteIn my defense, the "yard" he uses is a large cow pasture, so I suspect it's not noticed. And if it is, it's probably written off as coming from the coyotes that live in the same pasture.
Well, yeah. If one is a Jew, or a Christian (as I profess to be), being a good neighbor is _required_. It's also just prudent, so as to keep up one's reputation in society.
ReplyDeleteI'm with Rob K. I prefer to live in a place where I can set up a shooting range in my back yard.
ReplyDeleteGenerally places with sidewalks frown on that.
Of course if Tam were Empress there would probably be a community range within walking distance of most everyone.
Scott J.,
ReplyDelete"I'm with Rob K. I prefer to live in a place where I can set up a shooting range in my back yard."
I want to live either someplace where I can shoot off my back porch, or someplace where I can order takeout Kazakhstani food at 0100 on a weekday.
It's the vast suburbs in between that hold no attraction for me, perhaps because I was trapped there for the first twenty-odd years of my life. :)
Too bad you can't have both backyard shooting and esoteric food delivery in the same place, eh?
ReplyDeleteThe biggest downside to my living out in the sticks is my commute. 37 miles each way currently.
I've always hoped as an IT guy to make that telecommuting thing happen but 17 years into my career I have given up hope on that.
Correction to my last post. Commute is 27 each way. I didn't realize I'd hit the 3.
ReplyDeleteShow?? When I'm Empress of the Universaroid there will be NO snow except in Snow-Cones, so all you sno-shovellin' bastages will have to rake lawns or pull cactus to have something else to argue about.
ReplyDeleteSNOW? When I am Empress of the Tropic Island Universaloid with turtles all the way down, there will only be snow in brightly colored sugar-syrup Sno-Cones (Shave-Ice) and all you walk-shovellers will have to argue about disagreeablities like thistles (or chestnut husks) in the lawn and cactus, things which anyone can be freely torch with a flame-thrower.
ReplyDeleteI wish we could have some snow where I have to live, in southern Flarduh. I love the 50-60 Fahrenheit days we've had for a coupla weeks. I am dreading July and August, with ninety-nine degree temperatures and ninety-nine percent humididity.
ReplyDeleteAnd insects.
And damyankee golfers. Contrary to what some people think, large numbers of them stay here year 'round.
Why, why, will nobody hire me to plant anti-personnel mines on golf courses? That is a job which _so_ needs doing!
I had fun this winter. take a 12" mirrored tile, surround it with six of it's kindred. Aim them all at the exact same point. Get some more just like it. Aim them all at the exact same point. self cleaning sidewalks. They also boost the efficency of solar ovens, and solar cells.
ReplyDeleteJohn B, that reminds me of that Clarke story about the South American soccer game, with the shiny covers of the program literature.
ReplyDelete