So the media is practically decorating its collective cupcakes over the "sweeping gun legislation" passed in Connecticut and Maryland.
Thus far, with the exception of "swing state" Colorado, this rash of
"sweeping gun control legislation" has just seen blue states with bans
ban things even bannier. With double secret bans on top.
Meanwhile other states continue moving in the other direction; here in the Hoosier state, for instance, some Democrats in the statehouse may want gun bans, but they want them in much the same way people in hell want ice water.
We are truly a House Divided, and if you're a gun nut living on the
wrong side of the duplex, you might want to give serious thought to
moving your bed unless you think you can serve the cause better by
becoming a test case.
Like civil rights in the '60s, this is going to come down to the Feds in the end, barring a black swan event like balkanization or somesuch.
I got to listen to one of our local opinion page editors on the radio this morning telling a caller that this legislation did not infringe on the right to carry arms, it was merely an inconvenience, and the constitution didn't guarantee convenience for anyone.
ReplyDeleteI think that's a rather specious argument, especially when requiring citizens to go to DMV and get a non-driver's ID to vote is considered an insuperable barrier to allowing people their right to vote. And forgetting that the constitution doesn't actually list a right to vote, it just lists reasons which can't be used to disenfranchise someone.
If I could move the bed I likely would.
ReplyDeleteAnd in Alabama, the state Senate just passed a bill that would expand gun rights against the wishes of the Sheriff's Association and Business Council
ReplyDeleteI'm gonna wait till 2014 before I think about moving out of CO. Expecting a major "swing" and I want to be here to try to make it happen.
ReplyDeleteLibrary-Gryffon, never mind that inconvenience IS infringement. The 2A doesn't say "shall not be completely destroyed", it says "shall not be infringed".
ReplyDeleteIf you eat some of my cake, you are infringing on my cake, even if you leave a few crumbs for me.
s
I live and work in NJ. A suggestion that we would retire in NJ would be met with howls of laughter from my wife and me.
ReplyDeleteAt some point we'll be in PA, NH (as long as they stay red), or somewhere farther west.
Right now we are just trying to hold the line in NJ - no longer anywhere near the worst for gun control. It will be interesting to see how Christie handles it given his GOP Presidential hopes.
we're stuck until we can sell the house.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately here in MD it only takes the delegates of 2 counties (out of 23) and the city of Baltimore to pretty much do whatever they want. Those of us in the Eastern half of the state and those in the Western half are pretty much screwed by those in the middle on a regular basis.
ReplyDeleteDuring the last committee hearing one of the delegates introduced an amendment that would have dropped "good time" for any criminal using a gun. On the first vote it passed. Then some of the Dems that voted for it were pulled into a side room and apparently given their marching orders. The committee chairman then declared that there had been a "miscount" and they had to take another vote. Guess which way it went that time ?
If I could afford it I'd be moving out of this state faster then it takes to dump a 30 round mag. But then again, I've lived here all of my 50 years and it pisses me off that I even have to consider moving just so I'm not treated like a criminal-in-waiting.
My first thought when Heller came down was "...and we'll spend the next forty years deciding on the exact definition of the word 'infringed'."
ReplyDeleteBut seeing a lot of parallels between the gun rights battle and the civil rights campaigns of the 60's. With the same party having heir heels dug in on the anti-liberty side.
I think it's racist for you to refer to a black swan and civil rights. Why's it gotta be a BLACK swan? And if it's gotta be a BLACK SWAN, I think it would be less hurtful to call it a Swan of Color.
ReplyDelete(Yes, I know who Taleb is.)
House Divided is certaintly correct. After these last couple of days I'm reminded of the last part of book three of Bracken's Enemies trilogy. The girl who was the main character in book 2 is describing the US as basically existing in name only, that if the people in New England/Mid-Atlantic regions want a socialist government they can have it, as long as they don't try to force the Mountain West/Pacific Northwest regions to participate.
ReplyDelete@matt; which area ya in? I'm stuck in S.Anne Arundel Co., with the dubious pleasure of Speaker Busch being one of my 3 delagates, and Steny(God give me strength)Hoyer as my Congress-critter. Fun. Tam, it's gettin' ta be an H.L. Menkin quote back here; " Comes the time in every man's life, when he spits in his palms, hoists the Black Flag and commences to cutting throats."
ReplyDeleteThroat-cuttin' time is approachin'. Rapidly...fingerprints to buy a gun? really? I guess we all look like Chester da Molester.....
Even the One-Party state of Cali-Lotus is Balkanized. There are counties that would fit better in the Mid-West or South than the Coastal-BlueElites would like, and the Northwest is CrazyTown and always has been. The Socialist Coastal Elites are not immune or safe either, since they cannot maintain their vast wealth by giving too much away - their power depends on patronage and the subservient indentured who live in the shadows - Amnesty will backfire and cost them more. But I'm moving to the part where the Balkans have all the guns, and not the sideways City-Glocks of Socialist Oakland and LA-Compton. The Hippies shall not endure or win this, and we shall smite them from the hilltops when the Black flag goes up.
ReplyDeleteI know far too many people like Pete of WRSA and Mike V. Of Sipsey Street who say we aren't voting our way out of this.
ReplyDeleteI don't want them to be right but I'm afraid they are.
I'm frequently reminded of a line from Ambassador Kosh of "Babylon 5" I stumbled across in a YouTube wander recently: "The avalanche has already begun. It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
Hippie Smiting should be an Olympic sport.
ReplyDelete"Like civil rights in the '60s, this is going to come down to the Feds in the end..."
ReplyDeleteThe problem maybe Das Feds come down on the Nanny State side of the issue and happily restrict civil rights of those of us in fly over country.
Gerry
"barring a black swan event like balkanization"
ReplyDeleteNot looking like a Black Swan at all. The 2nd A. fight may be the defining starting point of a hard divide between left and right.
Wait wait wait...
ReplyDeleteNot a single comment wishing that CONNECTICUT will fall into the ocean?
Not even a peep about those collected crazy people in COLORADO the rest of the country would be so much better off without??
Not so much as one stray electron's worth of love for the wish to secede the entire rest of the union from those damned MARYLANDERS and NYFC???
Pretty bitchin, sitting here in Califrutopia. Now I know how Jimmy Carter feels, every time he reads about what Fat Bill and Hopey Dopey get up to doing.
And exactly how many Californicans moved to Connecticut and Maryland and Colorado since 2010, and screwed things up for them'uns, exactly?
So I'm thinking, just spitballing, really, that unless we're all supposed to move to Texas, maybe "run and hide" as a 2d Amendment strategy might more profitably be replaced by "We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never, never, never surrender..."
If anyone's still in contact with them, maybe forward the suggestion to the NRA. Especially since, given their current and past behavior, it has the virtue of never having been tried by them.
BTW, it's 78 and clear here all week, and I can still see some snow on the distant mountains from the beach. The local fun store has a rack full of ARs and G-3 clones. And of all the emotions, jealousy is the least attractive.
Just sayin'.
The BIG problem for those of us live in solid Red states like HoosierLand is taveling.
ReplyDeletePretty much limited to revolvers and single column 1911 pistols or manually operated rifles and shotguns if you like to travel 'heeled'.
Even then we must avoid New Yark like the plague as well as few other of these areas.
It would really suck to have a traffic accident in one of these areas during a brief foray into this 'enemy' territory.
Just my 2 cents worth...
All The Best,
Frank W. James
Frank,
ReplyDeleteThat's the reason I drove to TX via TN and AR. I won't set foot in IL if I can help it. Hell, I won't change planes in Chicago, Boston, or NYFC...
Aesop,
ReplyDelete"BTW, it's 78 and clear here all week"
The guy on the top bunk in cellblock D is supposed to be a really good kisser, too. ;)
http://blogs.wsj.com/metropolis/2013/04/03/as-connecticut-gun-vote-nears-security-concerns-for-malloy/
ReplyDeleteWhy should they be scared if they aren't doing anything wrong? I guess they don't like that arguement thrown back at them.
Malloy is supposed to be visiting my daughter's high school this morning. I have no idea why, but it's requiring roping off large areas of the minimal parting lot. I'll ask the kid when she gets home if she saw him or found out what he was doing down here rather than doing his job up in Hartford.
ReplyDeleteThough given the damage he does when he's there, maybe we should encourage more of this travelling...
My best bud in the Army is a through-&-through rural Californian: Grew up on a ranch in the Sierras and has lived up in the Redding/Oroville area since his
ReplyDeletereturn. Rifle builder, dealer, 'smith and serious match shooter, worked for the Huntingtons in O'ville and has
-usually- put a good face on what seem to me to be huge travails for Kal gunnies...
...Had a long catch-up phone talk
with him the other day and he floored me by saying, "Next time we talk, I'll likely be a Texan.."
Self, wife and 3 adult kids are all
done with Califrnia Dreamin'...
Library-Gryffon, I've had the misfortune of meeting Malloy, and quelle surprise!, yes he has armed bodyguards. Hypocrisy...
ReplyDeleteMoving to a better state is attractive, though not an option for me. It also, seems to me, to be in the long run a method guaranteed to fail. It reinforces the Us/Them on both sides; and the demographic weight is against gun owners.
Fear of the unknown is a huge motivator. If the only people with guns in CT (or other Blue-states) that the average person meets are either cops or criminals, then the probability of getting them to believe that people with guns are not imminent threats is pretty much zero.
Fewer gun-owners begets few gun-owners. As a recent convert to gun-ownership, my opinion is that more attempts at 'conversion' need to happen, not self-imposed balkanization.
Having said that, I totally understand leaving!
Tam,
ReplyDeleteDon't fret, didn't Punksutawney Phil say your snowy purgatory is about due to end?
That guy in cellblock D will be more of a concern for one of Bloomberg's Mayors Against Free Americans then, won't he?
We're so broke here, they're letting all the guys in the cellblocks out so they can keep paying the $100K/yr pensions to the retired govt. union file clerks.
Next up, when things get all uncivilized, we'll see what happened to all those 99% unregistered A Salt weapons they been getting all twisted up about.
Aesop,
ReplyDelete"Don't fret, didn't Punksutawney Phil say your snowy purgatory is about due to end?"
Actually, having just walked back in shirtsleeves from the local taproom, I am pleased to report that the difference in temperature between here and there is less than one degree per round in the magazine of my CCW. :)
...for which my no-training-required lifetime permit cost 75 bucks. I mentioned that part,right?
ReplyDeleteWhen the Big Rumbling hits the Coast and all the Hipster creeps start running like rats, we'll dynamite the freeway and stop them on the plains...
ReplyDeleteWhat the beleaguered citizens of NY/MA/CA/et al don't seem to understand is that, in MOST states, we have spent the last twenty years, not defending our Second Amendment rights, but EXPANDING them...
ReplyDeleteOh hell ☮ we don't even have to do that. We'll just file a lawsuit against the EvilCorporateFreeway (#Occupy Freeway!) saying there's a bevvy of Red-bellied Thrushwings or Green-toed hoplalongs and the Hipsters will close the freeway themselves.
ReplyDeleteDamned l'esprit d'escalier:
ReplyDelete"But in the morning, ma'am, I shall be sober..." ;)
"12:47 PM, April 05, 2013"
ReplyDeleteThread winner.
Well, until those VolksRepubliks can be Liberated, I've been suggesting the Following "Plan B" to all my buddies stuck behind Enemy Lines.
ReplyDeleteA) Go through the Bill line-by-line (which will be more than 98% of the Scumbags who voted for it in the first place did, BTW). See just what the Central Committee has allowed you to keep.
B) Take the rest of your Arsenal of Mass Child Killing and get it across the Iron Curtain to Sanctuary ASAP. Some of you know my offer, and it still stands. Call me.
C) Move if you can, Vote if it will help, but don't let them take away your Property for the "Good of the State."
D) Have patience, and get as much practice with your Old School "Non-Assault" Firearms as you can, and make every shot count.
As for those of us in Free States, don't give in an Inch. If the local Parks and Rec Board tries to impose a "Gun Free Zone" in Violation of State Law, Fight them Tooth and Nail. The Courts will be where the Main Thrust of the War for Freedom will be fought, but we have to cover our section of the Line.
Hope this helps.
"The guy on the top bunk in cellblock D is supposed to be a really good kisser, too. ;)"
ReplyDeleteLo humidity and sunny day dittos Tam! And thanks for supplying the proper context.
Our County Sheriff is on record stating she won't enforce any new Federal Restrictions. Of course she has no problem enforcing the years old California assault weapons and magazine ban.
To her credit, she has turned Fresno County into the closest thing to "shall issue" to be found in the entire state.
Still we have gone ahead and informed cousin Rob in Corinth that he is our designated Texan.
We're stuck out here in Kaliforniastan until my wife can retire, another 6 years minimum, but more likely 9.
ReplyDeleteUnless of course everything turns to doo-doo, and goes down the tubes, in which case we'll head for the Wyoming hill's where her son's GF and family live.
Tam's post at 2:48 PM is best. response. evar.
ReplyDeleteOuch, Tam.
ReplyDeleteBut all that savings helps cover the heating bills, huh?
And of course, the temp difference is even less for Illinois, Maryland, Connecticut, and Colorado.
My point is that we'uns v. them'uns is always a stupid tack as an actual strategy.
Folks need to fight the tards everywhere, not run away to Imaginary Nevernerverland. Because they breed, and they move. (Lord knows, that's how things got this way here.)
Granted, it's not nearly as much self-congratulatory fun as shooting fish in a barrel. But as you've noticed, travel options keep getting slimmer and more annoying.
The commenter who's going to "stop 'em at the plains" was good for a belly laugh though.
That's obviously going to work when they've already taken over in Colorado and Illinois. Geography fail.
There's a bright spot in all this. Places like Sportsmen's Guide and Cheaper Than Dirt will soon be able to simply note on their shipping restrictions page that they won't sell anything to anyone not actually standing in front of them. Which will be quite a relief to brick and mortar shops coast to coast.
Aesop,
ReplyDelete"My point is that we'uns v. them'uns..."
Nobody is suggesting 'we'uns v. them'uns' as a strategy.
However, the political reality on the ground is that a clear dividing line on 2A issues opened some 20 years ago in this country and denying its existence is denying reality.
A mere handful of states (CA, MA, NY, CT, MD, MA) have been relentlessly tightening their gun laws since the late '80s.
Conversely, most states have been loosening them over the same time frame.
To most of America, your "Fight them on the beaches!" Churchillian speech is as... dissonant... as if Winnie had given it on the deck of the Missouri in Tokyo bay.
The only danger in the statistical majority of states comes from CANYILMDMA senators and reps in DC, not from their own statehouses.
"travel options keep getting slimmer and more annoying."
ReplyDeleteActually, travel options have been broadening for most of us, and continue to broaden.
More and more states get added to the reciprocity list all the time. Yours will never be one of them, outside of a SCOTUS miracle.
A shame, really, as there are friends in Cali and places I'd like to see. :(
bluesun, Laura, farm.dad:
ReplyDeleteStart a recall petition on your state rep and senator now.
The bar for recall petitions is very low, and even an unsuccessful recall attempt can damage a politician enough to make them lose the next election.
I'm starting to think that secession isn't the right idea, we should be working on kicking those states out of the U.S.A.
ReplyDelete"And exactly how many Californicans moved to Connecticut and Maryland and Colorado since 2010, and screwed things up for them'uns, exactly?"
ReplyDeleteRe: Colorado- The "Snowflakes*" have been drifting in over the mountains to the Front Range for nigh 4 decades now, fleeing high taxes and .gov micro-management of their failed welfare state ..... and having fouled their nest there, they came to the Front Range and proceeded to turn CO into the hellhole they just left. They now have a legislative majority.
Re: Balkanization- On the bright side, when the currency collapses, the Red part of the country will be able to feed itself...... the Blue? Not so much......
-jimbob86
*Snowflakes- Pretty to look at when they first started wafting in, but downright annoying when you are up to your neck in them!
@ JohninMD On the eastern shore in Wicomico County but I'm seriously consider diving south about 45 miles and moving to VA. The damn libs have such a lock on the state house all the fighting in the world won't help.
ReplyDeleteWhen they had public discussion on the bill over 1300 pro-gunners signed up to speak and only about 30 antis did. Even with that kind of turnout we were basically told "screw you" and hardly a damn thing in the bill changed
One SCOTUS miracle coming up....
ReplyDeleteKachalsky cert decision should be revealed April 15th.
Calguns Foundation leadership's on record predicting that with Kachalsky or one of the other carry cases hitting SCOTUS, the result will be a decision by 2014 obligating California counties to be functionally shall-issue for CCW/LTC -- of course we'll still have to litigate some recalcitrant counties (like mine, which includes Berkeley, heh heh) into submission, but that's just mopping up.
It's not always so good in a red state either.
ReplyDeleteI bet darn close to half or more of the population here in Alabama would vote to repeal the 21st amendment.
I can't seem to get many of my fellow Baptists to understand the Bible says nothing about backing up your moral beliefs with the police power of government.
It's my opinion that CA is a lost cause. Even if they repealed every single firearms law they currently have on the books, the coming fiscal meltdown would still make it a losing proposition to live there.
ReplyDeleteCalifornians were moving into Colorado Springs when I was stationed at Ft Cartoon in 1992. The price of real estate skyrocketed, home prices doubled in the course of two or three months.
ReplyDeleteOTOH, and FWIW, the ACLU has 1) begun reconsidering it's collective rights interpretation of the Second Amendment
and 2) expressed doubts about Harry Reid's gun bill.
I saw people at tonight's gun club meeting who had never been there in the last 18 years. We're putting our (the club's) money where our collective mouth is, and making ties with some teabaggers to see what little suprises we can spring on the gutless Republican party bosses come this primary season. Obviously the Demoncrats are hopeless.
ReplyDeleteConnecticut isn't so much a liberal state (outside the "Gold Coast" down near New York, plus Hartford and New Haven, which are both dangerous Welfare Dumps after 5:30 p.m.) as it is a bitterly divided place filled with complacent Republicans and the 40% of our citizens who call themselves Independents.
The Independents run mostly conservative to scary far right, and rarely vote, preferring to say "A pox on both your houses" as the ship sinks. But I think that utter swine Malloy might have stepped on his own dooley this time.
Geographically, this is a mostly rural and small town state. In terms of population, perhaps 20% urban, 30% 'burbs. The 'burbs split politically around 60/40 Democrat/Republican, so change is possible, but we're gonna need a LaGuardia or Reagan to pull all the disparate elements together.
And three weeks ago I turned down a job offer from SIG in New Hampshire. Burned bridges I guess.
Interesting. By January One, we have to make an accounting to the State government on how many magazines we have that hold more than 10 rounds. We can't buy any more of them here in CT, but nothing seems to be hindering us from rolling up to Hampton Beach NH this summer, skipping over the bridge to the Kittery Trading Post, and loading up on cheap PMags.
"Those Officer?" "Oh yeah, I've been loading up over the last several years". "Feel free to serialize every one of my hundred and twelve magazines, I'll just sneak out for a beer or two".
I do feel sorry for the cops though. They're almost completely virulent pro-gunners, and this will just take more money out of their budgets for law enforcement and give them more paperwork and heartburn.
I know the gun laws in most of the US have been going in the right direction for the past 20 years. It's to the credit of a lot of hardworking people. I'm in their debt as a newcomer.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I still feel that there is a potentially lethal demographic imbalance. I'll just take my generation of close family incl. cousins/in-laws (under 35 and all college educated) of about 20 people scattered across the country: LA,TX,NH,MA,ME,CT,CA,OK,CO,WI, AZ...I am the Only one who owns a gun. In my parents' generation, there are only two. Now, the other salient point is that almost all of those people? Urbanites. They like being city people (d---ed if I know why), and I think the stats are pretty clear that urbanization is going to continue. Now it seems to me that unless we as gun owners can figure out how to overcome the culturally engrained idea of guns and city life as diametric opposites eventually, even if the laws are on our side, we will lose. Not in ten years, not in twenty, but eventually.
Maybe that doesn't matter. Maybe the Red states will have happily split off and gotten rid of the their urban areas. Course, last I checked seccessions never ended happily for anyone.
To John and Matt, I live just outside Baltimore, and my state senator was a co-sponsor of the damned bill. And she, like all three of my delegates, are from the city. (For those not from MD, Baltimore City is a separate political entity from Baltimore County, in which I reside.) One way or another, I am likely to end up as a test case. Probably as a statistic. But I don't have the option to move at this time (money and family concerns). So I get to "play the cards" I've been dealt.
ReplyDeleteI'm in the same boat, Chris; as much as I'd love to get to Wyoming, I'm probably stuck until it becomes a good day to die. that's the most infuriating part; they keep calling for the lightning, and WHEN it happens, they won't understand what they did.....
DeleteThis is going to continue until it either blows up or ends up in front of SCOTUS...
ReplyDeleteRemember folks, the Democratic Party has decided that they can do as they wish, as they continue to get re-elected despite themselves. If you notice, they do not even bother letting people discuss the legislation or for the legislators to read the legislation. Let us see what is next on the agenda if you let them continue unchecked.
ReplyDeleteThe yellow dog Democrats have moved north and west:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_dog_Democrat
I see from comments Colorado has turned blue because liberals have been fleeing California. O how we wish...
ReplyDeleteThat's pretty much like arguing that the ship is sinking here because the water is leaking out.
But never is a long time, Tam. I take a more hopeful view. And for those that see catastrophe looming in a financial crash, I take the contrarian view. A financial crash hereabouts is the only way to burn down the welfare hellhole bottomless pit, defund the vote pump, and retake the state when the rats leave the ship.
After all we've put up with here, I think we've earned the right to see the statues of Marx and Lenin pulled down.
Even Olympic-class dope Bill Maher was caught noticing that his confiscatory tax rate has finally gotten too high.
So I'll wait and see where sentiments about CCWs go in this state after a court decision or three, and some good old fashioned welfare riots. (Which would be poetic justice, since what ended open and concealed carry in this state wasn't so much liberals gone wild, but rather uptight conservative law-and-order types getting nervous about carloads of black folks - all wearing black berets - carrying, and monitoring police stops for DWB in the '60s. Yet another case of be careful what you wish for.)
It is an us v them scenario. Not one that we wanted, and still not one that we act like we're in, but that's how they've been running the game, so we might as well get hip.
ReplyDeleteIn essence (with much oversimplification) this is a culture war. The anti gunners see the firearm as a totem of our tribe. Their aim is to diminish that, & (so they think) that'll diminish & extinguish the culture that they see as so threatening. They don't hate gun per se, they just hate serious gun owners, along with our small government mentalities. No; not every gunny votes repub or wants smaller government, but I'm relaying what they operate on.
I'd argue the extent that we've been winning the last few decades. Yes; reciprocity has increased, but having more states honor a permission slip gained by begging, jumping through hoops & paying a bribe ain't respecting a Right - it's merely liberalizing a privilege. Only 3 states have went permitless in the last 100 years, bringing the total up to 4.
In Colorado the californians were a large part of it, but so were locals that got entranced by being progressiver than thou. To quote an old bluesman, "bright lights, big city, have gone to my baby's head". Still, califorming is culpable. But more prominent is Bloomie the Hut aiming his quad mounted credit card at our dems, threatening to primary any who lose religion.
Personally I'm torn twixt evacuating or being part of the resistance.
But remember, what happened in Colorado could happen to you. & the main point of what happened in Colorado was to pass a universal background check. That's what Biden, et al really want, & by it passing in a pro gun western state they'll use it to bolster support in other states as well as federally.
Methinks (& I haz enough ego to think I'm correct) the only & best thing we can do is become absolutist in a hurry, and not only demand our reps say no to any new gun owner control, but push for repeals of all prior restraint based gun owner control laws currently on the books. That means replacing CCW permits with constitutional carry among other things. & that won't be easy considering the gun owner opposition to such ideas I've seen around here.
Oh, recalls won't work for farmdad & others who live away from the cities. Their reps & senators likely voted against these bills. Most (but not all) that did are in very safe dem districts where the constituents actually believe these laws will reduce crime and would like to see magpul & other gun related businesses move elsewhere.
& I don't feel sorry for the cops in these places. The Denver PD for example, enforces a ban on open carry that's forbidden by not 1, but 2 constitutions. They value a paycheck over a fundamental enumerated Right. That doesn't engender pity; that creates contempt. I'd argue you can't be virulently pro-gun if you enforce prior restraint based gun owner control laws. Makes as much sense as being pro capitalist but working for the KGB.
o/t but it might give you a laugh...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/9969670/Do-guns-make-women-any-safer.html
JonT
acairfearann,
ReplyDelete" They like being city people (d---ed if I know why), and I think the stats are pretty clear that urbanization is going to continue. Now it seems to me that unless we as gun owners can figure out how to overcome the culturally engrained idea of guns and city life as diametric opposites..."
Goddamned city-dwellers! ;)
But see, the latter has been happening: Top Shot, prepping, Call of Duty, the zombie fad... Guns have been becoming hip and cool and edgy, which is part of the reason that the mainstream anti- movement has been so fired up lately; trying to keep the lid on the box before it pops open and gets away from them.
publicola,
ReplyDelete"That means replacing CCW permits with constitutional carry among other things."
Yes, but that generally follows a logical chain of lily pads: May Issue to Shall Issue with lots of restrictions to Shall Issue with few restrictions to Constitutional Carry.
IN has had very liberal CCW laws for a long time and recently added a lifetime permit. The fact that we have no training requirement hampers reciprocity and so there's a movement underway trying to introduce a special higher-tier permit with a training requirement in order to get reciprocity in more states (currently the savvy Hoosier traveler holds a UT or FL non-res permit for this purpose).
The politically clever solution here is to go to Constitutional Carry within the state and add a "Training Required" travel permit, much like there currently is in AK or AZ. Unfortunately, this plan is not being helped by the people who think that typing "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!" on the internet and voting for Ron Paul every four years while not even being able to name their state rep is how one goes about defending their freedoms...
To a degree the various gun shows such as Top Shot suggest that guns are more popular. But the fact that those shows immediately vanished from the networks after Newtown and stayed gone, leaving only the hunting shows buried on some obscure channel does not suggest any level of in-depth acceptance.
ReplyDeleteThere is an image problem. There is no reason why a gun-owner can't be a twenty-something loft dweller, metro-sexual, vegetarian, who thinks zombies are stupid, and couldn't camp to save their life. It shouldn't change the basics: the 2nd Amendment is a constitutional right, shooting is an enjoyable sport, and guns are interesting both for aesthetics and engineering.
Now, I am probably entirely incorrect (I would love to be wrong in fact)...but I haven't encountered that many gun-owners of that stripe.
" But the fact that those shows immediately vanished from the networks after Newtown and stayed gone..."
ReplyDeleteWas that due to a loss of popularity with the target demographic, or a loss of intestinal fortitude on the part of network execs who wished to remain on guest lists in their social circle?
CO might get turned around. MD, NJ, NY, CT... don't seem so likely. As mentioned, while CA is beautiful, weather wise, even if they fix their idiotic gun laws, I think they're fucked anyway, financially.
ReplyDeleteAs you mentioned, you just gotta keep paying those $100k/yr file clerk pensions, and CA had a lot of file clerks.
As far as "stand and fight!" vs: "run away!"... I'm torn. On one hand, I think fighting is the only way to win. (Obviously.) On the other hand, it's easy for me to say that, living in a state that's damned unlikely to pass any major stupid anti-gun legislation. And when I'm not the one who has to live in a place that has cops show up and demand entry to the gun safe because they saw a picture of a kid holding a rifle.
As ever, things are probably going to get a lot worse before they get better.
Miss Tam,
ReplyDeleteI get the no-issue to may-issue to shall-issue to constitutional carry thing (though I disagree with it - for example here our old may issue system was more liberal than our current shall issue system - but I digest...). The problem ain't folks typing "SNBI!!!shiftpluselentytimesfourteen!! (and RP rocks)" & doing nothing else. It's folks who prefer a permit system. For example out here the last few years the loudest critics (or at least the most quoted by the MSM) of any constitutional carry push were permit holders or instructors. I mean hell, look around the net for posts & comments congratulating people on getting their state issued permission slip, instead of offering condolences that they had to go through such an indignity to exercise a Right.
Ma'am, I've been reading you for nigh on a decade, and I don't know exactly where your views are, so this ain't an indictment against you. It's that a lot of gun owners seem to think Shall Issue is the grail. They're also the ones that think some kinda background check is okay and the NFA is a fine system that just needs some tweaking, certainly not repeal. They're appalled at the idea of felons, or domestic violence misdemeanants being able to buy a gun despite how wide those nets are cast. That premise, that the state has any business being involved in mere possession, is what is so dangerous, and it's what the anti's have built on quite successfully for the last hundred years or so.
What's coming down on us now - at the state level in some places & maybe nationally real soon - is, as you put it, a reaction to the anti's usual demographic drifting over to our side on the gun thing. That's not something I think we can counter with an incrementalist approach. I could very well be wrong (despite my ego telling me such a thing is impossible) but if we keep playing defense & trying to be politically clever we'll end up doing nothing more than a holding action politically, as it's arguable we have been overall. A holding action will mean defeat in the long term.
It'll take convincing congresscritters at all levels, as well as judges, that prior restraint is a bad idea. But it also will involve convincing other gun owners along with the fence sitters that prior restraint is uncool. None of that will be easy, but I think if we push for the whole ball of wax it'll be a lot easier than dealing with the results of doing what we have been doing.
& just for the record, I do know who my rep is - I've been trying to forget though (it's perlmutter). & I haven't voted for ron paul in weeks ;)
" I could very well be wrong (despite my ego telling me such a thing is impossible) but if we keep playing defense..."
ReplyDeleteHow is getting a new pro-gun bill passed nearly every legislative session "playing defense"? That's like describing Sherman's actions in Georgia as a "tactical withdrawal"...
(But in answer to your larger question, no, I don't think needing a CCW permit or current firearms laws are good things, but I also don't hold out any hope for living in L. Neil Smith's NAC wookietopia in my lifetime, either. But that's not going to keep me from cheering each incremental step in that direction.
ReplyDeleteAs Robb Allen once put it, you can tell that football coaches aren't [libertarians/gun owners] because if they were, every play would be a Hail Mary...)
For those Californians who think we red staters are blowing smoke about californication:
ReplyDeleteTake a look at this.
Click on LA county, and wait a bit for the script to load.
If things are so great in California, then please stay there. Currently, the only immigration into LA is from the Boston-Washington corridor ... the fascist crap and socialist economic fail is the same in SoCal, but the weather is better there.
What pro gun bills have been passed? Nationally I see letting the AWB sunset, passing the lawful commerce in arms act, & lifting (albeit not as cleanly as I'd have liked) the prohibition on carry in National Parks.
ReplyDeleteOn the state level except for Alaska, Arizona & Wyoming all I've seen are tweaks to the permit system, coupled with a few castle doctrine & stand-your-ground type laws.
With those exceptions we've mainly been blocking, or trying to, more restrictions. Most of our victories have been repealing recently enacted gun owner control laws, not going after anything long standing. Hence playing defense.
I ain't exactly donning my wookie suit either (though ya gotta admit, that bandolier is kewl), but I think a lot of people settle for less than they could achieve. The good enough is damn sure the enemy of the perfect at times.
In 5 years maybe a lot of the stuff I'm trying very clumsily to type about will be a hail mary (though this definitely ain't football). Right now it's possible, just very difficult.
But I'm open to ideas; I want an end to as much of the prior restraint based gun owner laws as I can get, as quickly as I can get it. I think a hard push for eradication of all such laws is the way to go (that way if we "compromise" we'll still be gaining actual ground). I don't think the incremental approach is working for us. So, how do we get where I want us all to be? & if an incremental strategy is your answer, how will it get us there?
Publicola,
ReplyDeleteNationally? Nothing much. But neither have ani ANTI gun ones.
In most states? Not a year goes by without restaurant carry or parking lot bills or state preemption.
While the woodie suiters have been bemoaning the lack of a national law that repeals everything back past NFA 34, on the state level local organizations have been dutifully showing up every year and taking their half a loaf, knowing they can always come back next year for more. Shit, even Claire Wolfe has acknowledged the efficacy of this approach. After all, it worked for the other side.
Stupid iPad autocorrect... WOOKIE suiters.
ReplyDeleteMiss Tam,
ReplyDeleteToo late. "Woodie suiters" it is. Those damn memes get around the net way too fast sometimes... :D
Nationally we can agree we've been playing defense by & large?
Restaurant carry - a tweak of the permit system. I don't see how this would lead to constitutional carry.
Parking lot bills - a mistake. It tramples on property Rights. Again no path to constitutional carry that I can fathom.
Preemption - pragmatically good, but it's based on the premise (in most cases) that the state gets to trample on Rights, not the cities & counties. It'll help if a constitutional carry bill is passed, but I don't see how it helps until after a CC bill is passed.
So by my reckoning, with my goals in mind, I see it as playing defense at best, with the exceptions of Alaska, Arizona & Wyoming.
As I said, here in Colorado we traded a fairly liberal may issue bill for a more stringent shall issue bill, & ever since a lot of permit holders have been hollering against constitutional carry moves. Not just permit holders - some allegedly pro-gun orgs as well. Since then we've not done much except keep most anti gun owner bills from being passed. Until last month that is.
The incremental approach works when you're trying to enact a prohibition, or when you're trying to get something brand spankin' new recognized. When you're trying to restore something (by repealing restrictions) it's not as effective.
Lemme try it this way - in a state with open carry, pushing for a shall issue system pits pro gun owners against anti gun owners, both vying for those in the middle. The same would be true if instead of shall issue the push was for constitutional carry.
Now in a state with legal open carry & a shall issue system, you have 3 factions trying to get ahead. The anti gunners, which are much the same as before, but you have pro gunners who want CC & "pro gunners" who prefer a permit system. With those permit loving gun owners and orgs, politicians can dodge. Thus far in 36 out of 39 shall issue states, they've dodged if it even has come up.
Coming back the next year in the above scenario, from what I've seen, is typically the same. 3 states out of 39? If a step by baby step approach was viable, wouldn't Florida be constitutional carry by now? Or at least lift the prohibition on open carry?
So I not so humbly submit to you that overall, when you look at the anti gun owner bills that have passed in a lot of states, we have been playing defense in the big legislative picture. & that's partly why we're losing ground now. (In the courts we've been playing a better strategy, but one that's mainly produced qualified victories so far.)
Dream with me for a moment - Boehner gets passed a repeal of GCA 68 in its entirety. He sends a note to Reid that says "if you vote & have Obama sign our gun violence solution bill, then we'll take a vote on yours". Reid will blink & any new gun owner control will stall at the federal level.
Granted, Boehner would need a spinal implant, but something like that is not playing defense; it's counter-attacking. Would that be more effective than, say trying to tweak the universal background check bill in the senate & hope there's enough votes in the house to kill it? The latter would be defense, and what I'm afraid is gonna happen.
Now if you'll pardon me imma go put on my elm suit, play some Rush - perhaps something from Hemispheres - & wonder where my bread crumbs are since I know fo' sho' I ain't get no half a loaf this year. Besides, it's about time for my daily sackcloth & ash session over NFA 34 being still on the books. :)
I am actually in favor of the Balkanization, even on ethnic lines, if it could be done without brutality and bloodshed (I'm squeamish about killin' and like that there, and really too old to fight anyway).
ReplyDeleteIt ain't possible to do that without brutality and bloodshed, as the Turks proved to the Armenians, the Nazis proved to the Jews, the Hutus proved to the Tutsis...
There's no other way to do it though, I think, so we'll prolly go on doing what we're doing until the whole thing collapses of its own weight, so to speak.
Parking lot bills - a mistake. It tramples on property Rights.
ReplyDeletePoppycock. You don't own my car just because I park it at your restaurant.
perlhaqr: I agree that parking lot laws are the wrong way to go.
ReplyDeleteI would prefer to tax the unarmed by making them pay doubled sales taxes if they are failing to open carry.
And make them get an expensive permit to NOT open carry.
This will sort out the parking lot issues quickly.
When you come over to the dark side, and become a Republican Deathbeast, you have much more interesting options.
"A mere handful of states (CA, MA, NY, CT, MD, MA) have been relentlessly tightening their gun laws since the late '80s."
ReplyDeleteI see what you did there...
Dunno 'bout the "Farm Folk" State Senator, but we are passing recall petitions for Morse and Hudak right now. I'm pretty happy with the response I've gotten from folks here on "our" twit Morse.
ReplyDeleteI'ma gonna fight them on the beaches and landing fields - and I also remember the Brits had a stay-behind force planned too. My friends in the floppy-green-hats were originally trained to stay behind if the Soviets rolled through the Fulda - and a WHOLE BUNCH of them live here in "contested territory" now.
Enough of a coward/realist to be looking at plan B dirt out-of-state too...