It is immoral, especially at the levels we incur and for the reasons we incur it.
It's odd (although not unexpected thought) that people think that because you don't describe something the way they do that somehow you approve of the act.
And now, if you'll excuse me, I shall suffer extreme oppression under your CAPTCHA requirement.
.. can't Wookies incorporate themselves and then use the Double Dutch or Irish or whatever insignificant European country tax dodge to pay 1-2% taxes like some of the most profitable US corporations?
Something which has been missing from our National discourse has been the concept of civic duty. You never hear it as relates to taxation, or military service, or firearm ownership, or participation in governance.
Taxes are a responsibility of the citizen for the preservation of the state. Military service is the responsibility of the citizen for the defense of same. So is firearm ownership (when's the last time you ever saw a gun-rights advocate make a civic duty argument to an anti-gunner? Last one I saw do that effectively was Jeff Cooper). The Founding Fathers expected us to participate in our government, and they expected it because, as deTocqueville describes, that's exactly what was happening.
Somewhere along the line we lost sight of the relationship between the citizen and the state. We've focused so much on the "leave me alone" portion of the argument (often with very good reason) that we've forgot the intent that the citizen be an active participant in the life of the Nation.
The political class is only too happy to further such a loss of focus. "You just leave it to us and don't worry your pretty little head over it" should automatically start a run on tar-and-feathers but sadly, it doesn't.
Taxes are abhorrent - certainly the way the tax system is currently arranged and run - but taxation itself is the duty of the citizen to the state.
There's much, much more to the argument than this simple illustration but we'd have, I think, a much more intelligent conversation as a nation if we remembered that "civic duty" means more than taking your hat off when the Colors go by on the 4th of July parade.
global village idiot - is right Slaves don't pay taxes. During the Late Roman Empire, many in the lower classes were selling themselves into slavery to escape crushing taxes.
The Emperor decided to forbid the practice and prohibited low-class farmers from leaving their land (creating the medieval serf). So high taxes are a feature of serfdom, not slavery.
"taxation itself is the duty of the citizen to the state."
I feel differently.
In the Use of Deadly Force, Law Of War, When and Why to Turn The Keys, and numerous other classes given by federal attorneys I had to attend, the "old school" way of interpreting our system of government was that the State Had Duties and the Citizen Had Responsibilities.
Let us not overlook the fact that taxing income was declared, more than once, to be decidedly unconstitutional and not within the legitimate powers of the government.
Even after the 16th Amendment was passed, allegedly in a lawful manner, Supreme Court Judges ruled that it - the 16th - made no changes in the gov's authority to tax incomes which are earned by Americans inside the borders of the nation Only that earned otherwise was affected, or at least that's what the court records show. The IRS, of course, does not publicize that fact, nor own up to it when it is pointed out to them,. How could they, without admitting their complicity?
So no, I do not believe paying taxes is a Duty.
And you're right, technically it's not slavery per se, but Extortion and Blackmail done via Threat of Deadly force is still a criminal act even if it is declared otherwise by th9ose who commit the crime.
The Left contends that property is theft. But we in the Right (and all good wookie-suiters) know, per Ayn Rand, that property is life.
And we also know that, when life is taken, that is murder. (OK, oversimplification, but follow along, here.)
Meanwhile, back at the Treasury, as has been acknowledged herein, the IRS at the very least is administering the Income Tax in violation of the Constitution. IF the whole IRC is not unconstitutional on the face of it.
So taking taxes from the incomes of people via withholding (to take a shortcut in the interests of time) is ... theft. The unlawful taking of another's goods or money.
And, as noted above, property (and, by extension, money) is life. And the taking of life is... class? Class? Beuller?
Murder.
So, no. Taxation is not slavery. Taxation is murder.
nun huh, cause social contract democracy or something...
ReplyDeleteIt is immoral, especially at the levels we incur and for the reasons we incur it.
ReplyDeleteIt's odd (although not unexpected thought) that people think that because you don't describe something the way they do that somehow you approve of the act.
And now, if you'll excuse me, I shall suffer extreme oppression under your CAPTCHA requirement.
Robb,
ReplyDelete"And now, if you'll excuse me, I shall suffer extreme oppression under your CAPTCHA requirement."
Dude, I hate it too, but it was that or turn off comments when Skynet finally figured out how to bypass Blogger's spam filter.
Finally, I understand the wookie thing.
ReplyDeleteI have no problem with the concept of taxes for operating a government or civic projects.
ReplyDeleteMy problem is with the concept of "fair share" which means I pay more so others can pay less or not at all.
Gerry
.. can't Wookies incorporate themselves and then use the Double Dutch or Irish or whatever insignificant European country tax dodge to pay 1-2% taxes like some of the most profitable US corporations?
ReplyDelete-Garneau
Someone on Robb's blog said it best:
ReplyDeleteSlaves don't pay taxes.
Something which has been missing from our National discourse has been the concept of civic duty. You never hear it as relates to taxation, or military service, or firearm ownership, or participation in governance.
Taxes are a responsibility of the citizen for the preservation of the state. Military service is the responsibility of the citizen for the defense of same. So is firearm ownership (when's the last time you ever saw a gun-rights advocate make a civic duty argument to an anti-gunner? Last one I saw do that effectively was Jeff Cooper). The Founding Fathers expected us to participate in our government, and they expected it because, as deTocqueville describes, that's exactly what was happening.
Somewhere along the line we lost sight of the relationship between the citizen and the state. We've focused so much on the "leave me alone" portion of the argument (often with very good reason) that we've forgot the intent that the citizen be an active participant in the life of the Nation.
The political class is only too happy to further such a loss of focus. "You just leave it to us and don't worry your pretty little head over it" should automatically start a run on tar-and-feathers but sadly, it doesn't.
Taxes are abhorrent - certainly the way the tax system is currently arranged and run - but taxation itself is the duty of the citizen to the state.
There's much, much more to the argument than this simple illustration but we'd have, I think, a much more intelligent conversation as a nation if we remembered that "civic duty" means more than taking your hat off when the Colors go by on the 4th of July parade.
gvi
if not slavery, could it be compared to indentured servitude?
ReplyDeleteNicely put, gvi.
ReplyDeleteglobal village idiot - is right Slaves don't pay taxes. During the Late Roman Empire, many in the lower classes were selling themselves into slavery to escape crushing taxes.
ReplyDeleteThe Emperor decided to forbid the practice and prohibited low-class farmers from leaving their land (creating the medieval serf). So high taxes are a feature of serfdom, not slavery.
Not to say it's not theft some times but the more common method is extortion.
ReplyDeleteHow else would you enslave a nation but keep them from discovering that it's slavery.
ReplyDeleteJesus Christ, Anonymous Commenter 7:06, you're right! The scales have fallen from my eyes! I was a poor ignorant sheeple but now I can see!
ReplyDelete"taxation itself is the duty of the citizen to the state."
ReplyDeleteI feel differently.
In the Use of Deadly Force, Law Of War, When and Why to Turn The Keys, and numerous other classes given by federal attorneys I had to attend, the "old school" way of interpreting our system of government was that the State Had Duties and the Citizen Had Responsibilities.
Let us not overlook the fact that taxing income was declared, more than once, to be decidedly unconstitutional and not within the legitimate powers of the government.
Even after the 16th Amendment was passed, allegedly in a lawful manner, Supreme Court Judges ruled that it - the 16th - made no changes in the gov's authority to tax incomes which are earned by Americans inside the borders of the nation Only that earned otherwise was affected, or at least that's what the court records show. The IRS, of course, does not publicize that fact, nor own up to it when it is pointed out to them,. How could they, without admitting their complicity?
So no, I do not believe paying taxes is a Duty.
And you're right, technically it's not slavery per se, but Extortion and Blackmail done via Threat of Deadly force is still a criminal act even if it is declared otherwise by th9ose who commit the crime.
Just another point of view . . .
Nuh-uh. When the fruits of my labor are taken before I even get them, that's slavery, not theft....
ReplyDeleteNow, if I wasn't subject to withholding it might be a different story.
I think Robb is right. Attend the syllogism.
ReplyDeleteThe Left contends that property is theft. But we in the Right (and all good wookie-suiters) know, per Ayn Rand, that property is life.
And we also know that, when life is taken, that is murder. (OK, oversimplification, but follow along, here.)
Meanwhile, back at the Treasury, as has been acknowledged herein, the IRS at the very least is administering the Income Tax in violation of the Constitution. IF the whole IRC is not unconstitutional on the face of it.
So taking taxes from the incomes of people via withholding (to take a shortcut in the interests of time) is ... theft. The unlawful taking of another's goods or money.
And, as noted above, property (and, by extension, money) is life. And the taking of life is... class? Class? Beuller?
Murder.
So, no. Taxation is not slavery. Taxation is murder.
You are welcome.
M
Actually, it is armed robbery.
ReplyDelete