Well, the British media exposed the NSA's phone records grabbing, or at least one phone company's worth; one may fairly safely assume that identical orders were received by AT&T, Sprint, Joe's Bait Shop & Telecommunications, and everybody else with a tin can and a string.
What with nominally conservative outlets on this side of the pond hitting this latest tidbit like a mako taking a minnow off a light line, ABCNNBCBS had to say something, and mostly what Chuck Todd and his ilk have said has been "But, but, but... George Bush!"
Sorry, guys, but "He did it too!" isn't any more of an effective excuse now than it was in the third grade.
This is exactly the kind of crap that had civil libertarians so disgusted with the previous administration that they decided to give Team Donk a chance, and look what they got in exchange: A bad punchline of an Executive branch. "They told me if I voted for McCain that secret intel organizations would Hoover up all the phone records of every American, and they were right!" Har-de-har-har. It was funny the first thirty-seven times.
And what's the Mainstream Media doing? Hiding smoking guns like a lovestruck teenager for her gangster boyfriend. If you guys were manning the bridge in '73, you'd be doing special investigative reports on why security guards should mind their own business when they see a taped door lock. It could be taped for national security reasons! And George Bush taped locks, too!
I defended W to a fault and even I was squeamish about the Patriot Act.
ReplyDeleteNot because I thought his administration would abuse it but because I knew a set of true statists would.
*snerk*
ReplyDeleteNo really, I actually snerked out loud at "And George Bush taped locks, too!" Well played, Tam, well played indeed. :D
WV -- "Figure visorsec": It's like peril sensitive sunglasses for your motorcycle helmet. When the MSM sees Team D doing something they shouldn't, the visor turns black so they can't see any more, and the words "But W did it too!" pop up in neon lights on the inside.
We're all suspect till proven guilty.
ReplyDeleteGerry
The phone lines were asking to be tapped. Did you see how they were dressed?
ReplyDeleteBut, but, but how ELSE can Obama get to the Bottom of all those Leaks? I mean, if one can't keep track of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy, why, they might even get more Congressional Power, and (SHUDDER!) might even have a shot at the Presidency in 2016!
ReplyDeleteI mean, so what if a few Rights are broken? The Fundamental Transformation of America (into the Union of Soviet Socialist Amerika) must NOT be allowed to be Derailed! We Can't Wait!
Well, we WERE bitching that some people were abusing their ObamaPho privileges and Teh iWon intends to get to the bottom of it...
ReplyDeleteWhenever our congresscritters write legislation, they never seem to envision it being enforced by their worst enemies.
Like we used to say when we heard static or clicking on the line during a phone call, back in the Bad Old Days: "Fuck Hoover!"
ReplyDeleteAlthough now I guess it's "Fuck Holder!"
I am also amazed at how many purportedly responsible parents trot out the "But Bush Did It Too!" argument when it works so well out of the mouths of their children.
ReplyDeleteI was 18 years old when the scandal hit Ol' Nix, and even then I recognized "they did it too!" out of the mouth of my Uncle was no defense.
I think this is Apropos here:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.libertylawsite.org/2013/06/06/the-security-state-as-security-blanket/
Just wait till they wade through transcripts of the 1994-1998 AOL IM's...some Boomers on Facebook are *really* gonna be embarrassed,
ReplyDeleteThe part that makes me nervous is, what about the other carriers? Did they just roll over and give up without a court order?
ReplyDeleteThis is exactly the kind of crap that had civil libertarians so disgusted with the previous administration that they decided to give Team Donk a chance, and look what they got in exchange
ReplyDeleteReminds me of the laughable noise from a few libertarians in 2008 that "I'm voting for the Democrats because they promised fiscal responsibility".
You idiots.
Seriously, who could have even believed that one for a second?
On civil liberties, it's a little more plausible, but... not very.
(On the other side, however, as noted at Volokh, this revelation isa secondary order, and thus we don't know what the context is; it may (emphasis on "may") be much more limited than Greenwald (remember, Glenn Greenwald is a hack, even when he's occasionally right) is telling us.
I wouldn't be too surprised at the Administration trying such a thing, but I might be somewhat surprised at Verizon just giving in to a call for "all records of all calls" without a challenge; that's facially amazingly broad.
Which adds credence to the suspicion that the Primary Order might limit the context of the captures more than is apparent.
Or maybe not.
As Kerr says, Potentially a huge story.)
It's for the children!
ReplyDeleteDon't you people have any feelings for them?
How else are you going to protect them if the NSA can't dig around and find out you called Aunt Gloria not once but TWICE last year?
Now shut up and get in the damn boxcar.
@ISHmininerd: that was funny!
Heh, I just tuned in Limbaugh and he's playing audio clips of Obama railing against this very sort of thing before he was President.
ReplyDeleteI think my irony meter is going to require re-calibration.
Funny enough, Nixion's excuse was "Kennedy Did It!"
ReplyDeleteWhile I agree "Bush did it too!" is a silly defense/excuse, perhaps "Eisenhower did it too!" is closer to the mark.
ReplyDeletePossibly the request for in-US calls is new, I don't know. But international communication snooping is one of the things NSA is supposed to do, and on as near to universality as possible. Asking providers to turn over [some] records may be something that NSA has to do periodically: I am old enough to remember when the IRS had to petition SSA every year to use the SocSec number to identify and match records.
Not saying I like it. Nor that re-considering the NSA mission statement should not be done. After all, theft of a loaf of bread used to be a hanging offense. And, the FBI used to attach devices at the old electro-mechanical switching stations - it was routine until someone blew the whistle that it was being done without warrants.
Anyone who could believe the Left deserves what they got. Some people just can't connect the dots, and will never learn to.
ReplyDeleteJD Rush,
ReplyDelete"The part that makes me nervous is, what about the other carriers? Did they just roll over and give up without a court order?"
What makes you think they didn't get court orders?
ReplyDeleteIf 10% of the people have Verizon telephones, and they make two calls a day, that's two billion calls a month.
Miniluv doubleplus busy!
Tam,
ReplyDelete"What makes you think they didn't get court orders?"
Upon reflection, they probably have court orders. Being secret, we just haven't heard about them yet. Considering the AP phone records story uncovering James Rosen being declared an unindicted co-conspirator in a leak case, I would be shocked if this story doesn't go there. As if that would make this fishing expedition more palatable.
uncovering= uncovered. Changed something and I proofread like crap
ReplyDeleteThis fun until you realize that one of the R's thinks that this is a great idea. Lindsey Graham thinks that that it's okay that their doing this and you shouldn't worry about if you don't have anything to hide.
ReplyDeleteThis statist crap is getting deep and my boat is leaking...
Joe R.
Now that the roosters are coming home to roost, it's not so pretty for the lefties...
ReplyDeleteWith respect to the NSA, CIA, and other 3-letter agencies inside the Beltway taking advantage of the Patriot Act - I'm gonna hazard that there are many more roosters IP Inbound to that roost target.
ReplyDeleteThings are breaking fast. Apparently it has been admitted that all phone carriers have been turning over data, that GOOGLE, YAHOO, and pretty much every web giant have been turning over data under a program called PRISM since 2009.
ReplyDeletehttp://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/did-prism-watch-me-create-this-blog-post/#comments
And apparently, Holder has been asked if he is reading Congressional phone calls, and will not answer.
One slight correction. The claim that it is covered by FISA or the Patriot Act is bogus, because those laws require specific phone accounts and probable cause, not "give us everything on everybody so we can see if they are doing something we don't like". But that would only count if we lived under the rule of law and the Constitution still was in force.
Subotai Bahadur
Are they getting all this stuff out there now in the hopes that the ADD-addled American public will forget about it by the next election? Or do they feel confident enough now in controlling electoral outcomes that they just no longer give a crap?
ReplyDeletejf
"But international communication snooping is one of the things NSA is supposed to do, and on as near to universality as possible."
ReplyDeleteFrom what I've read this isn't for international records...it's for domestic records.
Still not seeing the problem?
Things Not To Do
ReplyDeleteJoe R.,
ReplyDeleteThe main difference is, when an "R" does it, it'll be front page news for WEEKS.
We won't have to look to the NY Post and UK Guardian for this news.
Things not to do: start a blog? More like 'anything but go live in a cave for the rest of your life.'
ReplyDeleteAnd if you choose not to permanently sequester yourself, be sure to spout the party line frequently enough to keep yourself out of the government pogroms.
jf
wv: despotic. So apropos...
For an earlier history of some of this type of activity, see James Bamford's 1982 book "The Puzzle Palace".
ReplyDeleteThere was also an interesting 2006 interview with NSA whistleblower Russell Tice in "Reason":
ReplyDeletehttp://reason.com/archives/2006/01/13/inside-the-puzzle-palace
Quick, look, Trayvon trial!!
ReplyDeleteNice time to have an old computer without a camera or microphone!
ReplyDeleteThe O isn't just trotting out the lapdogs on this one; he was front and center on damage control at this morning's propaganda...I mean news conference. And what did he say? Yup, Georgie did it too! In code of course...
ReplyDelete"I think it's good thing we're having this conversation now (got our ass caught)...it shows we're a mature society (damn lackeys are lousy at hiding shit)...this wouldn't have happened five or six years ago ('cause Georgie's lackeys were way better at hiding shit).
We've seen the all before ... http://www.hulu.com/watch/63079#i1,p5,d0
ReplyDelete