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“I only regret that I have but one face to palm for my country.”
Thursday, December 19, 2013
Ya buncha weathervanes.
You have a right to free speech. You don't have a right to your own TV show. (I'm talking about Jim Zumbo; who'd you think I meant?)
— Tamara K. (@TamSlick) December 19, 2013
Phil's a good guy and a straight shooter. There is no pretense about him.
Knowing him as I do, I'd imagine that right now he's regretting the way he sounded, but not backing down one bit from his convictions. If that means losing the show, he'd probably walk away and not look back.
I can still respect that, even if I don't share his views.
Going out on a limb here and say that some semi-high profile member of the gay community visits DD crew on a very special episode where Phil returns and everyone learns something and the nation is healed. Well A&E's ratings go through the roof as they pull in even more conservatives and add on a healthy amount of LGBT.
As for staying or going, the money always colors things, and we find out that it is easy to establish what people are, it's just a matter of haggling about the price.
A setup? What do you mean a setup? He said the words, they were quoted. He even admits he said the words and then issued a public statement about it. What's setup about that? He was trapped by some GQ writer to run his mouth? Sorry, no. Some people in this world tend to open their mouths and insert their feet. It happens, all the time, we need look no further than the current idiot in charge of this country for examples of that.
Do you think A&E set this up? Because Duck Dynasty is their highest rated show. Nothing helps your bottom line like potentially having to can your best show, because of media and societal backlash.
Indeed, you do not have a right to your own TV show. However, it's not like A&E didn't know who they were hiring. I don't think anyone in the family has ever hidden who they are or what they believe. Isn't it an interesting contrast with Alec Baldwin, though? How many homosexual slurs Alec get before he got booted?
A&E cancels their only profitable show, or walks the whole thing back. (Either way, A&E loses)
GLAAD makes an example of a person quoting 1 Corinthians 6, and suddenly convinces 40,000,000 Christian rednecks who were content to live and let live that the LGBT lobby really is out to destroy them. (LGBT community loses)
The Robertsons continue selling books, T-shirts, hunting gear, to a rabid following, and get to claim victim status in the ongoing culture war. (Robertsons win)
Here's a hint folks: you never win an argument by telling some else to shut up.
I find his comments distasteful. I find the idea that we should drive anyone from the public sphere who simply states a distasteful opinion even more offensive.
What's bothering me isn't the actions of A+E but the unbelievable double standard going on. if you're a hip-hop artist that spouts off against gays, your records sell. If you're Alec Baldwin, you stay on "30 Rock", (although eventually you're banished to the 8th Circle of Hell and/or MSNBC). If you're Phil Robertson, you don't have a chance, you;re gone.
It's not about teh gey, it's about the culture. If this hadn't happened now, it would have happened about militant Islamism or Nelson Mandela's socialist past.
For comparison, it is much easier to demonstrate that Zumbo spoke in error without bringing up arguments about human nature, religious tradition, and the question of whether or not calling something a sin is a form of hate-speech.
However, your comparison is a valid one.
Someone got in trouble for disagreeing with a large segment of the public on a touchy issue. And lost his position related to a money-making TV show.
Let's see... the man is a self-employed, small-business, rural, BIBLE-BELIEVING, Evangelical Christian. He LIVES his Faith. I mean this next with NO disrespect, but what would you expect him to believe? Right or wrong he holds true to what he believes.
While not a person of Faith myself, I respect(maybe even envy) his devotion even if I don't agree with him.
There's one big difference between Zumbo and Robertson. Zumbo was explicitly calling for laws banning an object/activity that he disagrees with. Robertson merely pointed out that he things something is "wrong".
A&E is free to air what they want to, and to lose my eyeballs. But, there's a world of difference between the two comments. The current left can't tolerate anyone even disagreeing with them, even when gov policy is nowhere in the conversation.
I don't really think so. He gave his opinion. He said that a man/woman relationship is better than a same sex relationship.
I disagree with him, but that doesn't make what he said hateful.
He even went to far as to straight up say "I ain't judging or condemning anyone, it isn't my place, but this is my opinion."
There seems to be a lot of pearl-clutching going on about this and I don't get it - are people really that incapable of accepting that a person has a differing opinion from them?
Are gay people really that insecure that they absolutely MUST have the unconditional approval of every man, woman, and child on Earth?
Just to clarify, they HAVE my approval. But why does it bother them so much that they don't have Phil's?
Don't like what he said? Stop watching his show, stop buying his duck calls. Something tells me that he wasn't exactly making his fortune off of the GLBT community, anyway.
I think A&E acted like a bunch of wussies. Issue a statement - "What Phil said is Phil's opinion, not ours. Love lots. A&E"
The big losers in all of this are the more moderate gay rights advocates. They have spent the last few years trying to explain how there is no "gay agenda" and how acceptance of homosexuals won't lead to people losing their jobs for professing their faith. Now The extremist advocacy groups have just managed to get a person fired for honestly answering a question about his personal beliefs.
Robertson's statement, for people who can actually read before their knee jerks, boils down to him saying that no, he does not like anal sex, yes, the Bible forbids anal sex, and that ALL sinners can be forgiven.
When I see these things happen, I always wonder if those interviewed are allowed to see the final planned article, or production.
If so, their comments are placed in the public realm for scrutiny.
If not, then there's dishonesty involved and that's reason to be disdainful of those that either published, or produced what was finally printed, or aired.
These sorts of blow ups always leave me thinking thinking the same thing:
Christian man believes Christian teachings, film at 11. Stay tuned for our ground breaking investigative exposé "The Pope: A Secret Catholic" right after "Is Water Wet and Other Difficult Questions"
Most timely article schedule for the past couple of days has to be Reason, who published this for their december issue: http://reason.com/archives/2013/11/15/kindly-inquisitors-revisited
The gay community has been trying for years to assuage the fears of people touting the "gay agenda" and how they would be getting peopl fired for their beliefs and so forth.
Turns out those people we all thought were crazy nutcrackers were right.
I still think A&E totally fumbled this.
"Phil's opinion does not reflect the opinions of A&E. Have a nice day."
The question the money guys and the execs had to be asking themselves was, are the people who watch the show ironically outnumbered by the people who honestly identify with the show's main characters and their quaint worldview?
We know which way the execs have bet, so far. Now we just need to see what happens to the network and it's ratings to find out if they were right.
(Zumbo was in retrospect a no-brainier, but it would not have played out that way even a decade ago. That was a nice little wake up call for the dinosaurs in our industry.)
The biggest point Tam was trying to make here was that the government wasn't involved in punishing Robertson.
HUAC was the government.
There is no comparison between the two situations.
However, I still maintain that if the gay people that called for this reaction are pushing for everyone to see them as petty little whiners that require the unconditional approval of every person on Earth, they are doing a bang-up job.
Of course, if that isn't their plan, they might want to reconsider what they are doing here.
It's amazing to me that all someone has to say in this country is, essentially, "I disagree with certain types of behavior, but I don't judge, and love the person anyway" and all of a sudden everybody wets their pants because he said "homosexual" and "terrorist" without inserting a period between them. Is this really the most important thing going on in the country right now?
Touche, Tam. :-) And this blog is the exception to the insanity sweeping the country. I had Facebook and drudgereport in mind when I wrote that. It's like my FB feed has been vomiting Duck Dynasty all over me since the other day, and Drudge has been headlining the blow-by-blow non-stop.
And they have a right to lose money if they so desire.
ReplyDeletePhil's a good guy and a straight shooter. There is no pretense about him.
ReplyDeleteKnowing him as I do, I'd imagine that right now he's regretting the way he sounded, but not backing down one bit from his convictions. If that means losing the show, he'd probably walk away and not look back.
I can still respect that, even if I don't share his views.
Ambo Driver,
ReplyDeleteWorking in the field I do, I know a bunch just like him, and I agree with what you just wrote.
+1 with Ambulance Driver.
ReplyDeleteThe question for me will be what the rest of tribe Robertson will do.
Will they return to the Duck Commanders days of serious water fowlers or stay in the wacky Willie world of Duck Dynasty.
Gerry
+1 on AD... Sad and I can't help but wonder if this was a set up...
ReplyDeleteGoing out on a limb here and say that some semi-high profile member of the gay community visits DD crew on a very special episode where Phil returns and everyone learns something and the nation is healed. Well A&E's ratings go through the roof as they pull in even more conservatives and add on a healthy amount of LGBT.
ReplyDeleteCommercials would be interesting.
NFO, it always is.
ReplyDeleteAs for staying or going, the money always colors things, and we find out that it is easy to establish what people are, it's just a matter of haggling about the price.
A setup? What do you mean a setup? He said the words, they were quoted. He even admits he said the words and then issued a public statement about it. What's setup about that? He was trapped by some GQ writer to run his mouth? Sorry, no. Some people in this world tend to open their mouths and insert their feet. It happens, all the time, we need look no further than the current idiot in charge of this country for examples of that.
ReplyDeleteDo you think A&E set this up? Because Duck Dynasty is their highest rated show. Nothing helps your bottom line like potentially having to can your best show, because of media and societal backlash.
Sorry the logic here is escaping me.
-Rob
Indeed, you do not have a right to your own TV show. However, it's not like A&E didn't know who they were hiring. I don't think anyone in the family has ever hidden who they are or what they believe.
ReplyDeleteIsn't it an interesting contrast with Alec Baldwin, though? How many homosexual slurs Alec get before he got booted?
Summary:
ReplyDeleteA&E cancels their only profitable show, or walks the whole thing back. (Either way, A&E loses)
GLAAD makes an example of a person quoting 1 Corinthians 6, and suddenly convinces 40,000,000 Christian rednecks who were content to live and let live that the LGBT lobby really is out to destroy them. (LGBT community loses)
The Robertsons continue selling books, T-shirts, hunting gear, to a rabid following, and get to claim victim status in the ongoing culture war. (Robertsons win)
Here's a hint folks: you never win an argument by telling some else to shut up.
I find his comments distasteful. I find the idea that we should drive anyone from the public sphere who simply states a distasteful opinion even more offensive.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteWhat's bothering me isn't the actions of A+E but the unbelievable double standard going on. if you're a hip-hop artist that spouts off against gays, your records sell. If you're Alec Baldwin, you stay on "30 Rock", (although eventually you're banished to the 8th Circle of Hell and/or MSNBC). If you're Phil Robertson, you don't have a chance, you;re gone.
It's not about teh gey, it's about the culture. If this hadn't happened now, it would have happened about militant Islamism or Nelson Mandela's socialist past.
The narrative is a jealous god.
For comparison, it is much easier to demonstrate that Zumbo spoke in error without bringing up arguments about human nature, religious tradition, and the question of whether or not calling something a sin is a form of hate-speech.
ReplyDeleteHowever, your comparison is a valid one.
Someone got in trouble for disagreeing with a large segment of the public on a touchy issue. And lost his position related to a money-making TV show.
Let's see... the man is a self-employed, small-business, rural, BIBLE-BELIEVING, Evangelical Christian. He LIVES his Faith. I mean this next with NO disrespect, but what would you expect him to believe? Right or wrong he holds true to what he believes.
ReplyDeleteWhile not a person of Faith myself, I respect(maybe even envy) his devotion even if I don't agree with him.
There's one big difference between Zumbo and Robertson. Zumbo was explicitly calling for laws banning an object/activity that he disagrees with. Robertson merely pointed out that he things something is "wrong".
ReplyDeleteA&E is free to air what they want to, and to lose my eyeballs. But, there's a world of difference between the two comments. The current left can't tolerate anyone even disagreeing with them, even when gov policy is nowhere in the conversation.
Was what he said hateful?
ReplyDeleteI don't really think so. He gave his opinion. He said that a man/woman relationship is better than a same sex relationship.
I disagree with him, but that doesn't make what he said hateful.
He even went to far as to straight up say "I ain't judging or condemning anyone, it isn't my place, but this is my opinion."
There seems to be a lot of pearl-clutching going on about this and I don't get it - are people really that incapable of accepting that a person has a differing opinion from them?
Are gay people really that insecure that they absolutely MUST have the unconditional approval of every man, woman, and child on Earth?
Just to clarify, they HAVE my approval. But why does it bother them so much that they don't have Phil's?
Don't like what he said? Stop watching his show, stop buying his duck calls. Something tells me that he wasn't exactly making his fortune off of the GLBT community, anyway.
I think A&E acted like a bunch of wussies. Issue a statement - "What Phil said is Phil's opinion, not ours. Love lots. A&E"
I don' get it.
The big losers in all of this are the more moderate gay rights advocates. They have spent the last few years trying to explain how there is no "gay agenda" and how acceptance of homosexuals won't lead to people losing their jobs for professing their faith. Now The extremist advocacy groups have just managed to get a person fired for honestly answering a question about his personal beliefs.
ReplyDeleteRobertson's statement, for people who can actually read before their knee jerks, boils down to him saying that no, he does not like anal sex, yes, the Bible forbids anal sex, and that ALL sinners can be forgiven.
Wade,
ReplyDeleteMy apologies for my deleted response, which was intended for a respondent over at Gay_Cynic's blog, and somehow wound up aimed at you.
When I see these things happen, I always wonder if those interviewed are allowed to see the final planned article, or production.
ReplyDeleteIf so, their comments are placed in the public realm for scrutiny.
If not, then there's dishonesty involved and that's reason to be disdainful of those that either published, or produced what was finally printed, or aired.
These sorts of blow ups always leave me thinking thinking the same thing:
ReplyDeleteChristian man believes Christian teachings, film at 11. Stay tuned for our ground breaking investigative exposé "The Pope: A Secret Catholic" right after "Is Water Wet and Other Difficult Questions"
Most timely article schedule for the past couple of days has to be Reason, who published this for their december issue:
ReplyDeletehttp://reason.com/archives/2013/11/15/kindly-inquisitors-revisited
Wade;
ReplyDeleteI agree so much. What you said nails it.
The gay community has been trying for years to assuage the fears of people touting the "gay agenda" and how they would be getting peopl fired for their beliefs and so forth.
Turns out those people we all thought were crazy nutcrackers were right.
I still think A&E totally fumbled this.
"Phil's opinion does not reflect the opinions of A&E. Have a nice day."
Gerry:
ReplyDeleteI know what I'd do if A&E did this to my Dad.
Especially if I didn't need their money, which none of tribe Robertson needs.
I'd tell them to shove their temporary suspension up their kazoo and walk.
The question the money guys and the execs had to be asking themselves was, are the people who watch the show ironically outnumbered by the people who honestly identify with the show's main characters and their quaint worldview?
ReplyDeleteWe know which way the execs have bet, so far. Now we just need to see what happens to the network and it's ratings to find out if they were right.
(Zumbo was in retrospect a no-brainier, but it would not have played out that way even a decade ago. That was a nice little wake up call for the dinosaurs in our industry.)
Where have we seen this before?
ReplyDelete"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." -Voltaire
And that ends it. Anything else is intolerant and intolerance.
Well-spoken, Wade, well spoken.
ReplyDeleteThis reminds me more of the Starbucks Appreciation Day flap than it does Zumbo. We had a good thing going, we took it too far, we lost ground.
I'm sorry, Tam, but IowaHawk wins the internet for today with this epic snark:
ReplyDelete"@iowahawkblog: Nobody has a right to have a show on A&E.
Just like nobody had a right to be a Hollywood screenwriter in 1948."
Yeah, because HUAC is clearly exerting pressure here. Weak analogy.
ReplyDeleteOnce again, kulturkampf feels as scripted as pro wrestling.
ReplyDeleteMichael:
ReplyDeleteThe biggest point Tam was trying to make here was that the government wasn't involved in punishing Robertson.
HUAC was the government.
There is no comparison between the two situations.
However, I still maintain that if the gay people that called for this reaction are pushing for everyone to see them as petty little whiners that require the unconditional approval of every person on Earth, they are doing a bang-up job.
Of course, if that isn't their plan, they might want to reconsider what they are doing here.
It's amazing to me that all someone has to say in this country is, essentially, "I disagree with certain types of behavior, but I don't judge, and love the person anyway" and all of a sudden everybody wets their pants because he said "homosexual" and "terrorist" without inserting a period between them. Is this really the most important thing going on in the country right now?
ReplyDeletejf
jf,
ReplyDelete" Is this really the most important thing going on in the country right now?"
Um. At the risk of pointing out the obvious, you're commenting on a post made at 9:57AM yesterday. I've talked about a bunch of stuff since then.
Touche, Tam. :-) And this blog is the exception to the insanity sweeping the country. I had Facebook and drudgereport in mind when I wrote that. It's like my FB feed has been vomiting Duck Dynasty all over me since the other day, and Drudge has been headlining the blow-by-blow non-stop.
ReplyDeletejf