Some people expressed a bit of disenchantment with the demo Remington R-51s they had out for coonfingering at SHOT.
There were mentions that the slide looked like it had maybe been machined from an investment casting. Considering that Painted Ordnance is a member of the Freedom Group stable and the pre-production samples used at the Gunsite dog-and-pony show were rollmarked "Charlotte NC", I'd say it's a lead-pipe cinch the major parts are castings. I hope nobody thought they were getting CNC-ed from billet at that price.
They may work and they may not, but I tend to err on the side of cynicism in new gun introductions. Show of hands: How many people expected a <$400 pistol using a novel
operating mechanism and most likely assembled from outsourced castings
and MIM bits to be reliable right out of the gate?
I'm definitely buying one, but it's for novelty*. See, I've got two original 51s in .380,
one of which doesn't run very reliably and the other of which I have no
idea since I've never even loaded it but it sure is pretty. I'm buying
an R-51 because it would be a neat accompaniment to them and, 30 or 40
years from now when I'm selling my gun collection to buy cat food at
the old folk's home, maybe it'll have appreciated some. I imagine I'll
take it to the range a few times but, you know, "in the world of new self-loading pistol introductions, it's safest to bet on failure."
EDITED TO ADD: The interesting thing is that there's no real reason to use Pedersen's action any more, other than novelty. The reason it was developed in the first place was that Colt held Browning's patent on the one-piece slide and breechblock and vigorously defended it. Remember: Pedersen was the guy who designed around Browning's patents. He was like Ginger to JMB's Fred: He did everything le Maitre did, but backwards and in high heels.
*Maybe they'll shoot like gangbusters, but single-stack guns too big to go in a pocket just don't have any practical use for me. Since I'm rarely in anything you'd call a "non-permissive environment" and I dress like a hobo, if I'm carrying a gun on my belt, it's going to be a service-sized pistol. The next size step down for me is "small enough to slip in a jeans pocket", which leaves out a lot of otherwise fine guns, like the P-239, Shield, or the 3913.
And JMB said Pedersen was a genius!
ReplyDeletegfa
"Remember: Pedersen was the guy who designed around Browning's patents. He was like Ginger to JMB's Fred: He did everything le Maitre did, but backwards and in high heels"
ReplyDeleteGood lord, another dead on line that I have to steal.
I'm reserving judgement until the production models come out and have a few months in the hands of the masses. If they are worth the $$$, then I'll probably pick one up. I'm big enough that a 1911 or K frame revolver are easy to conceal, but a mid-size automatic that's reliable might be what it takes for me to dip my toes into the 9mm pool.
ReplyDeletetl;dr - We'll see how it works when they're being cranked out like sausages.
"small enough to slip into a jeans pocket" is a pretty deep field for me.
ReplyDeleteI have pocket carried my 2.5" 66 a few times :)
Same size as my LC9 that fits in my pocket. Being able to get three fingers on the grip may make me switch if it is reliable.
ReplyDeleteAs others have already pointed out, pocket-sized is quite variable. I'm a big guy, and until I lost some weight and shifted to smaller pants last year I could pocket my 3" SP101'if I wanted to. Right now a S&W 649 is just right in my now-smaller pockets, and I believe the new Remington will be about that size. If there is any advantage to being a fat guy it's that nobody questions why your pants are lumpy. o_O
ReplyDeleteThat said, you're absolutely right about what it is likely to be. If I get one, unless it's way better than I expect it will be a range toy novelty. And yeah, I'll let the rest of y'all gamma test them and check back in a year or two.
I'm hearing this in the Movie Trailer Voice:
ReplyDelete"in a world... [exterior, slo-mo running dudes, pyrotechnics] of new self-loading pistol introductions... [slo-mo muddy yelling dude face 3/4 profile] it's safest to bet... [slo-mo futuristic vehicles]...
[whhhhhUMP! sound effect, silence]
ON FAILURE."
[slo-mo futuristic vehicles blowing up]
Jesus Christ, let me say this again:
ReplyDelete"... but single-stack guns too big to go in a pocket just don't have any practical use FOR ME."
For YOU, they might be handier than a pocket on a shirt. Or maybe you have bigger pockets. Or whatever.
I don't pick out your shoes based on what fits my feet and my needs, why in the name of sweet baby Odin would I pick out your guns?
You must be pretty when you're annoyed, based on how much some of your readers like pushing this particular button of yours.
ReplyDeleteFrom my understanding, the way the R51 got started was a few gun nerds from AAC toured Remington after they joined the Freedom Group collective, trolling for new ideas, and they latched on the 51 as something they'd like to re-work. It'll probably be made at Para, but the impetus came from AAC.
ReplyDeleteI'm also hearing the 51 isn't the only gun the AAC gun geeks took a shine to on their tour...
When I saw the first pics of this pistol, I thought "Oh Pretty!" I remained hopeful until I got to the price...
ReplyDeleteI wonder if for another $200 they could have done a pistol with better parts and finish? Of course this assumes the parts and finish are crap, which at $400 MSRP it is nearly a given.
The 51, like the 1903, is one of the ones that comes up in internet gun dork conversations a lot under the heading of "Why don't they make these now, but in 9mm?"
ReplyDeleteI wonder how much a Colt Pocket Hammerless would cost today if made with the same materials and tolerances...
ReplyDeleteI'm still holding hope for a 1903-clone in 9mm.
ReplyDeleteYou're supposed to wait until after the honeymoon to tell me my bride's ugly; not at the wedding!
ReplyDeleteWay to kill the romance!
So is it 9mm only or will there be a .40?
ReplyDeleteI'll buy one too for the novelty of the action. I like it when folks invent new things or at least try something new. I keep wanting to get a Boberg and a Coonan for the same reason. Practical? Not really. But hey, how else are we going to see true innovation if we just keeping make more 1911s?
ReplyDeleteThat said, the R51 is down on the list, behind the killer deal my friend offered me on an all original 5.5" Registered Magnum and one of those ugly new tiny Taurus 'View' snub revolvers. Because yes...I DO want a .38 Special revolver that weighs 9 ounces, I am a masochist.
-Rob
Pleased as frickin' pie with my R1.
ReplyDelete"I like it when folks invent new things or at least try something new."
ReplyDeleteNot entirely certain this counts as that. ;)
Yeah, when I saw the Charlotte, NC on the slide, I sorta knew where it came from =)
ReplyDeleteFor YOU, they might be handier than a pocket on a shirt. Or maybe you have bigger pockets. Or whatever.
ReplyDeleteWhoops. Reading comprehension fail on my part. I plead "reading and posting on a tiny screen while trying to get 3 other things done at the same time." *sigh*
Bryan, somebody has to piss Tam off once per thread. I think I did it way back, but I really don't remember much about that day.
ReplyDeleteCame to in intensive care and the trauma surgeon telling me, "Son, you stick to rasslin' grizzly b'ars and don't push Tam's buttons."
Yeah, I live in the sticks.
My baseline level is a sort of mild pique anyway. ;)
ReplyDeleteTam,
ReplyDeleteBecause the market is currently filled with aluminum framed, sub-$400, fixed barreled guns? Okay, I'm being hyperbolic.
I admit it's not exactly new, not like the guns from Arnie Boberg, but I see anyone attempting to make something besides a square shaped polymer gun or a 1911 is doing something "new" when compared to the rest of the market overall.
As an aside, with respect to the introduction of new self-loading pistols its best to bet on failure. How are feeling about wheelguns these days? I say that and immediately think, "How's that Chiappa Rhino working out?" Then counter with, "Well that Judge is working out pretty well."
-Rob
That's her secret; she's always piqued.
ReplyDeleteIf it's the same size as the LC9, is reliable, AND HAS A DECENT TRIGGER then I'll be trying one out, too.
ReplyDeleteI love the size, shape and reliability of the LC9, but jumpin' jeeters that trigger sucks large boulders off the ground.
The initial reviews I read said that the shooters actually LIKED the trigger, so maybe it's got a chance.
I still want to get my hands on one even if just to play with it. That said, most new offerings just seem like opening a laundromat at the nudist colony.
ReplyDeleteMeh, it's not like the slide on a Pedersen action actually needs to be especially strong. All the meaningful stress is taken by the barrel, frame, and breech block.
ReplyDeleteTam. That slide was not machined. It was injection molded.
ReplyDelete