Yesterday, Unc linked to a report of a KSG user who had been running a ProMag VFG on a Kel-Tec KSG and managed to blow part of his hand off when the grip's attachment to the rail failed. Apparently on the forward stroke his hand continued on out past the muzzle, probably still clutching the busted grip, while his trigger finger said "F&#$, I Got My Orders" and went ahead and pressed down with predictably gory results.
As noted over at The Firearm Blog's post on the incident, the ProMag grip in question does not use a crossbolt to secure itself to the rail, but a little plastic nubbin that is conspicuously lacking in confidence-inspiring qualities. While not at the Tapco level, ProMag stuff does tend to be pretty chintzy, and this is an extreme example of what can happen when you cut corners on things like this.
On an AR, this grip failing would have been a little "Ha ha!" moment. On the stubby pump shotgun, it had permanently life-altering effects. But, hey, the ProMag unit is half the price of a Magpul MOE VFG and a full fifty bucks cheaper than a Troy modular VFG!
I hate cargo cult crap.
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I'd bet the "victim" never did anything productive with that hand anyway. Nor the other for that matter. Spending $1,000 on a shotgun and affixing the cheapest VFG to it doesn't scream "smart guy" to me.
ReplyDeleteIn my experience (and unfortunately there is a lot of it because of not many high end AK accessories out there) Tapco> Promag . Now that's not saying that Tapco is that good while their G2 AK triggers are acceptable, their AK mags are ok for normal range use. But ProMags mags break much more easily and have crappy springs (besides for their MP15-22 mag that S&W made them stop making). It seems ProMag is making an attempt to get better with their Archangel line, but almost everything up to now has been crap. Tapco's stuff might be cheesy but it does at least work in most cases.
ReplyDeleteThanks for posting this Tam. I'm finally getting around to buying a VFG for my Mossberg. After reading this it will definitely have cross bolts to keep it in place.
ReplyDeleteAl_in_Ottawa
How did that ad go?
"If you have a $10 head, buy a $10 helmet"
Jeez, is there anything ProMag makes that's even remotely worth a fraction of the pittance they charge?
ReplyDeleteWhen the NRA convention was last in St. Louis, I went with a bunch of friends. ProMag was giving out plastic bags right next to the doors... everybody in my group but me got one. I told them "No, I not only don't want to advertise for them, but if those bags are made like their gear, they won't last the day." I eventually found a bag at another booth.
One of those Promag bags had given up the ghost a couple hours later.
Yeah, I know it's hardly evidence of ProMag = junk, but I just thought it was amusing and slightly prophetic.
A Magpul rail-mounted VG with a threaded steel pin, pre-coated with threadlock compound to secure a steel hexagonal nut, designed to lock it securely into a Picatinny slot, is currently just under 25 bucks most everywhere that's not named Bass Pro.
ReplyDeleteSo I can totally see why this guy ran out and stuck a Promag POS grip on a $1k shotgun.
He probably owns a Kimber he carries in an UM nylon holster too.
What kills me is that the shooter who shot his hand is suing *Kel-Tec* in addition to the grip manufacturer, even though the part that failed was the derpy aftermarket VFG, not the shotgun.
ReplyDeleteOf course the shooter could sue *himself* for using that grip in that role in the first place...
You guys are all heart. Yeesh, my butt puckers just thinking about it.
ReplyDeleteJesus, Mary and ChickenJoseph. That gives me the willies.
ReplyDeleteAs others note, always go top-of-the-line on your danger gear...
One of the first reviews of the KSG I read suggested that this was a potential hazard. Not regarding the particular foregrip, but simply that the basic gun had no safeguards against the support hand slipping ahead of the muzzle.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, the KSG is one of those really great ideas that looks shakier the more closely I examine it.
OK, now I have a good reason to never use a vertical grip on a shotgun slide.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure I would trust even a magpul grip in this instance.
It is a poor workman that blames the tool.
ReplyDeleteI get the strange feeling that Cleetus was a very staunch defender of both Kel-Tec and Promag gear on the internets before the incident. I'd even venture that one could find him decrying "gear snobs" and/or "glock fanbois".
ReplyDeleteWhat is the old saw, you get what you pay for? And in THIS case he's paying in more ways than one...
ReplyDeleteSince the shotgun did what it was supposed to do wouldn't Kel-Tec be immune under the lawful commerce in arms act? The guy pulled the trigger and the gun when bang. Not defective.
ReplyDeleteInteresting, my BoBro Engineering VFG uses a similar locking mechanism as the ProMag one, but it uses a metal roll pin in the place of that "nipple", and the pin is attached to the grip itself while the "push up" part simply exerts pressure on the rail to lock everything in place.
ReplyDeleteI think I trust the BoBro one quite a bit more, though.
Is this the same guy who uses a two hand grip while firing a revolver, with the support hand forward of the trigger guard, pulling back at the crane and the trigger guard, under the cylinder-forcing cone gap?
ReplyDeleteI was just in my local favorite Merchant O'Death, and they have three KSGs in stock right now.
ReplyDeleteI thought these things were unobtanium?
Perhaps they will be again?
Anything in the grip instructions that say "Don't use this on a bullpup shotgun"?
ReplyDeleteNaw, it can't have failed! I heard that Gecko45 carries two KSGs while "operating," and that both of his have ProMag VFGs.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, though: the comment about a high-end 1911 in a POS nylon holster was right on. I think we've all seen someone spend the big bucks on the fun toy then go cheap on accessories and ammo (steel case or fun show reloads in high-end pistols!).
I wrote a review for two sites on the KSG when it came out at SHOT. I noted then that you better glue something heavy and permanent to the front of that thing, or you might end up being called "stumpy", with cause.
ReplyDeleteSorry to see it really happened.
Your advice needs to be heard and heeded.
I run a troy MVG - it's alluminum and could make a decent impact weapon in its own right. I have no fear of it failing short of being used as a jackstand.
ReplyDeleteEver seen the little HundK MP5K machine pistol? Vertical foregrip right behind the muzzle?
ReplyDeleteWhen son was in Iraq the first time was able to visit a special forces range a couple of times and play with things, including one of these. If you look at a picture, you'll see a piece sticking down an inch or so in front of the grip; apparently that wasn't there in an early version, and the range officer said they had a number of people missing a bit of their left index finger. Because they'd let that finger straighten out a bit while firing...
Firehand,
ReplyDelete"Ever seen the little HundK MP5K machine pistol?"
Locked one in the safe every night for years, as a matter of fact. :)
My apologies on the info above about the Magpul rail mounted VG.
ReplyDeleteI happened to glance at one of my ARs last night in the safe and it turns out that it's not attached with a threaded steel pin, pre-coated with threadlock compound to secure a steel hexagonal nut, designed to lock it securely into a Picatinny slot.
It's actually held on with TWO threaded steel pins, pre-coated with threadlock compound to secure it to TWO steel hexagonal nut, designed to lock it securely into TWO Picatinny slots.
All for the exorbitant price of <25 bucks.
Promag: The gun equivalent of buying your kid a toy at the supermarket.
I couldn't believe I was understanding this correctly until I looked up the KSG. The guy took a cheap plastic foregrip that is barely sufficient to steady the muzzle of an AR15, and mounted it as the foregrip that you apply force to when pumping the shotgun. Didn't the gun come with a proper foregrip?
ReplyDeleteI can see one thing you can maybe blame Keltec for, and that is mounting a rail where the shooter's hand will have to apply force. In a pump gun, the foregrip is an essential working part, and with tort laws the way they are, it is wiser to make a working part "permanent". Yes, there in reality there aren't any parts of a gun that can't be changed out, but a rail-mount foregrip implies that it's OK for any idiot to swap it out.