But we have taught kids for 30 years fighting is bad, todays kids don't have a clue about fighting. Some old country school he would hav likely been tackled from a couple of directions.
I wonder if the prozac deprived grad student lied on his application( i.e. mental question) for his Illinois FOID card? How would you like to be the Champaign, Il. gun store owner that sold him the weapons last week?.....the ammo.....? I can hardly wait for the medias rack to start tightening on this one...God I'm glad I don't live in Illinois.
When I was working psych back in the dark ages, the jail would bring prisoners by the county clinic for their meds. We'd do depot injections of antipsychotics that would last a couple of months, since they were given deep in the buttocks muscle, in a viscous solution of sesame oil. Mostly Haldol.
It'd keep them from being so bugnuts for anywhere from 2 to 3 months. Kinda makes you wonder why that's not more widely done with folks who might not be compliant with oral meds.
....but we'd get in trouble for fighting! It's in the student handbook, right above 'no weapons on campus'...
Child molesters go into teaching, guys looking for hit and run relationships find girls with low self-esteem, drug dealers sell in schoolyards, and lunatics go to where they know they can gun people down without the threat of returned fire.
Welcome to Predatory Instinct 101. Go where the pickin's good.
According to a news report I heard this morning, police recovered 48 pistol cases and six shotgun hulls from the crime scene.
The school reports that campus police responded in "two minutes."
Fifty-two rounds in two minutes or so. Yep, I'd say he paused to reload at least once. But everyone either ran or put their faces to the floor and waited to die.
Regardless, I expect that we will now see calls to modify the language in that recent NICS improvement act. He likely had not been adjudicated as mentally ill. Therefore the call will be for ANYONE who has EVER seen a psych professional to be disallowed the ownership of arms.
I work in DeKalb, about 2 miles away from NIU, it's a fucked up situation to say the least. Watching TV and seeing the same campus that I've walked is an exceedingly weird feeling. It's too bad this whole damn state is a fish-in-a-barrel zone...
I love the part about medications...and him being "so normal". Medication for what? Eventually I suspect more info will come out to show, yes, this guy exhibited warning signs like most of these types of folks did.
First comment but I have been lurking for a long time. I was a 49 year old student when the Tech shooting went down so I started gaming what I would do. Backpack full of books and a motorcycle helmet made a good shield and weapon.
I called my kids who were also in college and told them if they ever hear of a shooting at my school to know I will be running to the gunfire. If I could save some of our young adults at the cost of this old farts body so be it. My son, bless him, said he would be right behind me. Raised him right I guess.
The FOID sounds like something I'd have to get here, in the P D R of Canastan. Fortunately, it seems that they are "rarely issued to people with recent mental health problems". Well alright then!
He looks right wimpy, actually. I'll bet just a couple of men or very large boys could have subdued him by rushing him with chairs or text books or something. Then there's the tried-and-true classic dogpile.
"fight or flight" is not really accurate. The instinct is actually fight / flight / freeze. Dave Grossman's _On Killing_ gives a good layman's explanation, as does Ellis Amdur's work, but basically...
Human faces a threat. The three options are fight, flight, or freeze. Each is sometimes appropriate (fight a stranger in your home, run from a knife on the street, freeze when you see a grizzly bear pass by who has not noticed you).
The instinct is fight, flight, or freeze. All viable options in different scenarios.
Note, though, that "freeze" doesn't equal "cower."
But we have taught kids for 30 years fighting is bad, todays kids don't have a clue about fighting.
ReplyDeleteSome old country school he would hav likely been tackled from a couple of directions.
The sad thing is that should read "The gunman gave an opportunity for his intended victims to return fire".
ReplyDelete*sigh*
It's the guns' faults though.
I wonder if the prozac deprived grad student lied on his application( i.e. mental question) for his Illinois FOID card? How would you like to be the Champaign, Il. gun store owner that sold him the weapons last week?.....the ammo.....? I can hardly wait for the medias rack to start tightening on this one...God I'm glad I don't live in Illinois.
ReplyDeleteWhen I was working psych back in the dark ages, the jail would bring prisoners by the county clinic for their meds. We'd do depot injections of antipsychotics that would last a couple of months, since they were given deep in the buttocks muscle, in a viscous solution of sesame oil. Mostly Haldol.
ReplyDeleteIt'd keep them from being so bugnuts for anywhere from 2 to 3 months. Kinda makes you wonder why that's not more widely done with folks who might not be compliant with oral meds.
....but we'd get in trouble for fighting! It's in the student handbook, right above 'no weapons on campus'...
Regards,
Rabbit.
Child molesters go into teaching, guys looking for hit and run relationships find girls with low self-esteem, drug dealers sell in schoolyards, and lunatics go to where they know they can gun people down without the threat of returned fire.
ReplyDeleteWelcome to Predatory Instinct 101. Go where the pickin's good.
According to a news report I heard this morning, police recovered 48 pistol cases and six shotgun hulls from the crime scene.
ReplyDeleteThe school reports that campus police responded in "two minutes."
Fifty-two rounds in two minutes or so. Yep, I'd say he paused to reload at least once. But everyone either ran or put their faces to the floor and waited to die.
The school reports that campus police responded in "two minutes.
ReplyDeleteWhen seconds count, help's only minutes away
Sounds like he had more than 2 minutes to me.
ReplyDeleteRegardless, I expect that we will now see calls to modify the language in that recent NICS improvement act. He likely had not been adjudicated as mentally ill. Therefore the call will be for ANYONE who has EVER seen a psych professional to be disallowed the ownership of arms.
Fight crime! Shoot back!
ReplyDeleteEven in that totally-disarmed situation, the students had a selection of projectile weapons at hand. (Backpacks, textbooks, etc.)
ReplyDeleteIf not used as projectiles, a backpack might work as a partial shield against buckshot.
And they outnumbered him!
Yes, things would have gone much better if the teacher had evaded the first blast and pumped him full of 0.45 FMJ.
Things would have gone a little better if everyone had decided to charge the gunman while he was reloading.
What is this world coming to?
That's what I was saying, Karrde.
ReplyDeleteI don't get the cower and freeze reaction.
ReplyDeleteI thought the instinct was supposed to be fight or flight, not curl up and die.
I'm with Matt on this one.
I work in DeKalb, about 2 miles away from NIU, it's a fucked up situation to say the least. Watching TV and seeing the same campus that I've walked is an exceedingly weird feeling. It's too bad this whole damn state is a fish-in-a-barrel zone...
ReplyDeleteI love the part about medications...and him being "so normal". Medication for what? Eventually I suspect more info will come out to show, yes, this guy exhibited warning signs like most of these types of folks did.
ReplyDeleteThe headline in the Omaha paper was (in 2" high bold letters) "Run! He's reloading!"
ReplyDeletegrrrr.......
would that it had been "He's reloading! Kill him!
What do you do with a rabid dog ?
ReplyDeleteSome people just don't get it.
First comment but I have been lurking for a long time. I was a 49 year old student when the Tech shooting went down so I started gaming what I would do. Backpack full of books and a motorcycle helmet made a good shield and weapon.
ReplyDeleteI called my kids who were also in college and told them if they ever hear of a shooting at my school to know I will be running to the gunfire. If I could save some of our young adults at the cost of this old farts body so be it. My son, bless him, said he would be right behind me. Raised him right I guess.
The FOID sounds like something I'd have to get here, in the P D R of Canastan. Fortunately, it seems that they are "rarely issued to people with recent mental health problems". Well alright then!
ReplyDeleteHe looks right wimpy, actually. I'll bet just a couple of men or very large boys could have subdued him by rushing him with chairs or text books or something. Then there's the tried-and-true classic dogpile.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDelete“ Five or six seventh-grade kids and a 95-pound art teacher can basically challenge, bring down and immobilize a 200-pound man with a gun.” “In 1998 in Oregon, a 17-year-old high school wrestling star with a bullet in his chest stopped a rampage by tackling a teenager who had opened fire in the cafeteria. The gunman killed two students, as well as his parents, and 22 others were wounded.”
alan -
ReplyDelete"fight or flight" is not really accurate. The instinct is actually fight / flight / freeze. Dave Grossman's _On Killing_ gives a good layman's explanation, as does Ellis Amdur's work, but basically...
Human faces a threat. The three options are fight, flight, or freeze. Each is sometimes appropriate (fight a stranger in your home, run from a knife on the street, freeze when you see a grizzly bear pass by who has not noticed you).
The instinct is fight, flight, or freeze. All viable options in different scenarios.
Note, though, that "freeze" doesn't equal "cower."
bookmoth
"You can kill me - but don't expect any assistance!"
ReplyDeleteNext line should have read:
ReplyDelete"... and then he was beaten unconscious with a metal folding chair. Suspect is still in intensive care with a serious concussion."
Maybe the next line could and should also read "someone took his gun away from him... and then fed it to him".
ReplyDelete