Books. Bikes. Boomsticks.
“I only regret that I have but one face to palm for my country.”
Tuesday, July 27, 2010
For you game geeks out there...
I'm looking for two things for my Nintendo DS:
A classic RPG. (The kind with elves and dwarves and fighters and clerics, and not the kind with manga characters with spiky hair and Margaret Keane eyes.)
A turn-based strategy game of the classic 4X variety.
For turn-based strategy, I've been addicted to "Advance Wars: Days of Ruin" for longer than I care to admit. It's not as high on technology development as Civ-style games but the strategy is top-notch. Good variety of units and landscape, and adapts to both thoughtful development and "the enemy's gate is DOWN!" rapid attacks.
Really, it's probably the best DS money I've ever spent considering enjoyment vs. cost.
Ditto any of the Advance Wars franchise for turn-based strategy.
Not sure about the elves, dwarves, and clerics game. I'm pretty sure some of the NES/SNES classics are available for it though. Dragon quest I, II, and III is pretty standard roleplaying stuff. Not sure how they've aged though.
You want an RPG for a Japanese console that isn't a JRPG?
How about this, forget your preconceptions about character classes and appearances, and describe the type of gameplay you like. For example, puzzle quest 2 is a great game with classic RPG classes, but non-traditional gameplay. Then you have games like Dragon Quest IX with traditional gameplay, but they are Japanese stylistically.
You really should try a JRPG before you dismiss them.
For strategy games, the Advance Wars series (both on GBA and DS, all under $10 on half.com) is excellent. I'd also advise looking up Final Fantasy Tactics Advance on GBA ($7). There's a FFTA sequel on DS that I wasn't as crazy about.
There are a ton of SNES-era RPGs remade for the GBA. Final Fantasy 4, 5, and 6, Breath of Fire 1 and 2, etc are available for not much coin on half.com and are good for multiple tens of hours each.
There have been some others for DS as well: Chrono Trigger comes to mind.
For RPGs one suggestion I'd make is Etrian Odyssey. It's not precisely what you're asking for, as it doesn't contain different races, as I recall, but it's definitely old-school classes, and you even get to draw your own map on graph paper. I think there's a sequel out, but I haven't played it.
Two combine the two into one, you could go with one of the Fire Emblem games (There are three for the DS, two are actually GBA carts, and I like them better then the game that came out for the DS specficially.
They're a Turn Based, Strategy RPG with perm death, so you tend to get attached to your units. Mildly Anime inspired but not so badly that its annoying.
Runs off a Weapon triangle system that can be horribly broken at high levels - it a lot of fun.
I don't understand a single word any of you said. Zero. However, for a staid old fogie who topped out on Asteroids, listening to ya'll speak Martian piglatin is waaaay cool.
The FFIV remake is the closest thing that comes to mind, re: non-anime rpgs. Honestly, on the DS, you're pretty much stuck with JRPGs.
However, due to the graphical overhaul, they look a lot lets anime and more... half-way between PS1 and PS2-esque.
It's a very classic, "Shakespeare" style story. Maybe too formulaic for fans of 6+, but I think it's damn good. The music is great, too. OCRemix has a tribute album for it.
As the others have pointed out, if you want a DS game, you're best off opening up to Japanese-style RPGs, and if you want a Western classical game, you're best off for the most part looking elsewhere.
Marko and I have been wrapped up in one such for awhile now, but you probably already knew that.
If you have an old DS (not one of those newfangled big screen ones) that can play Gameboy Advance games, you need Golden Sun. And I've heard that they're making a sequel, though I don't know if it is for the DS or Wii.
I second (third? fifth? whatever...) Advance Wars. For a western RPG, check out Orcs & Elves (I suggest 'shopping' on Goozex.com. Good stuff for all platforms).
1. Western-style RPGs are pretty scarce on all video game consoles (heck, they're getting scarce on PC). I've been pretty addicted to Puzzle Quest and Mario and Luigi: Partners in Time, but those are obviously nothing like Baldur's Gate or The Elder Scrolls.
2. There are a ton of great DS strategy games (more tactical RPGs than you can shake a stick at), but few 4X games. There's Civilization Revolution and Age of Empires on the DS, and that's about it. Even those two might be too light on resource management and research to be fun for people weaned on complex empire-building games.
I am with you on prefering realistic...no, hold on...I mean prefering the classic fantasy image over the cartoony nonsense that's invaded our way of (avoiding) life.
You can get a device that's like a blank cartrige that runs emmulators for old titles.
Seeing as the DS layout almost perfectly mimics an SNES contoller...I'd reccomend the Might & Magic series
(FWIW I'm pretty sure none of what I just described is illegal, if you are worried about that sort of thing)
DS? You're hosed. Few to no such beasts of either stripe.
For 4X, the best ones are still on the PC. Advance Wars on the DS is a great little turn-based wargame, but not a 4X. Outside of a few PC releases, 4Xs are almost as dead as flight sims. Civ 5 is on the way, though...or already here, I'm not sure.
For Non-J RPGs, your best bet is either PC or modern console (360, PS3). Oblivion and Dragon Age are both good, though Oblivion is delightfully more immersive than DA; you can wander the countryside for hours, and find all sorts of things to do. It is somewhat lonely, though - there's really no party system, you're out on your own. DA has a more traditional party system, but it's...clunky, in other areas. It's like BioWare didn't learn a damn thing from Mass Effect (good SFRPG), and took a few steps backwards.
You kids stop playing with RPGs in the house! Look what you've done to the wall!
Get out in the street and play! Why, when I was your age we used pineapple and potato masher grenades and liked it! You ever try to hit anything with a launcher on an '03 Springfield? And if any of the kids on the street showed up with spiky hair we hold him to go take a bath! Even if it wasn't Saturday!
Or sometimes we told him to. Depended on circumstance. But in any case you can damn well bet we previewed our comments before we posted'em! 'Cause back then we were civilized, dammit!
I agree with the Etrian Odyssey recommendation for the traditional RPG fare, though be warned: it's freaking difficult. There is even a song about how hard the game is.
I also agree with Labrat: Atlus is awesome, the stuff they make (not just publish) even more so, such as the Etrian Odyssey and Shin Megami Tensei games.
Other "old-school" RPG recommendations: Final Fantasy IV (on the DS), Final Fantasy I & II (on the GBA, they're on the same cartridge), Dragon Quest IX. Would also recommend Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey, but I'm not sure how much you'd like the sci-fi story or the fact that you recruit demons to your cause...
Unfortunately, you're going to be hard-pressed to find non-JRPGs on the DS; luckily, said RPGs tend to lean on the more traditional side in this case because developers are more willing to take risks sales-wise. As for the art style, the only game I can think of that's not absolutely in an anime style is Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey (Devil Survivor, on the other hand, is very manga-esque) and the Final Fantasy games. This is due to the fact that the console has limited hardware capabilities, so it's much easier to pull off cartoony styles and look good rather than trying to go for a realistic, "western RPG" (read: realtime realistic 3D graphics for cutscenes, etc.) style and look...not so good. Thus, a decent amount of the games on the system, not just the genre, have anime-esque art styles.
...I'd also recommend Pokemon, except that I think I'll get shot. xD
Also also: I totally recommend NOT getting a 360. They break too much. And I think people can live without playing BioWare's and Bethesda's buggy-as-hell western "RPGs".
I hear stories about BG2 having bugs, but have never encountered them. The only bug I've ever hit was in Kotor... left a character stealthed before a cutscene and paid the price.
The new Golden Sun will be for the DS. Currently it's slated to come out on November 1. Of course in January, it was due in March, and last November it was due in January, so treat that date as tentative.
Warhammer 40k: Squad Command. A turn based unit combat (you can customize you squads weapons, tanks, etc) Line of sight with fully destructible 3D battlefields. (guy hiding behind a wall? blow the wall and him up with you lascannon.)
For turn-based strategy, I've been addicted to "Advance Wars: Days of Ruin" for longer than I care to admit. It's not as high on technology development as Civ-style games but the strategy is top-notch. Good variety of units and landscape, and adapts to both thoughtful development and "the enemy's gate is DOWN!" rapid attacks.
ReplyDeleteReally, it's probably the best DS money I've ever spent considering enjoyment vs. cost.
Ditto any of the Advance Wars franchise for turn-based strategy.
ReplyDeleteNot sure about the elves, dwarves, and clerics game. I'm pretty sure some of the NES/SNES classics are available for it though. Dragon quest I, II, and III is pretty standard roleplaying stuff. Not sure how they've aged though.
You want an RPG for a Japanese console that isn't a JRPG?
ReplyDeleteHow about this, forget your preconceptions about character classes and appearances, and describe the type of gameplay you like. For example, puzzle quest 2 is a great game with classic RPG classes, but non-traditional gameplay. Then you have games like Dragon Quest IX with traditional gameplay, but they are Japanese stylistically.
You really should try a JRPG before you dismiss them.
For strategy games, the Advance Wars series (both on GBA and DS, all under $10 on half.com) is excellent. I'd also advise looking up Final Fantasy Tactics Advance on GBA ($7). There's a FFTA sequel on DS that I wasn't as crazy about.
ReplyDeleteThere are a ton of SNES-era RPGs remade for the GBA. Final Fantasy 4, 5, and 6, Breath of Fire 1 and 2, etc are available for not much coin on half.com and are good for multiple tens of hours each.
There have been some others for DS as well: Chrono Trigger comes to mind.
For RPGs one suggestion I'd make is Etrian Odyssey. It's not precisely what you're asking for, as it doesn't contain different races, as I recall, but it's definitely old-school classes, and you even get to draw your own map on graph paper. I think there's a sequel out, but I haven't played it.
ReplyDeleteTwo combine the two into one, you could go with one of the Fire Emblem games (There are three for the DS, two are actually GBA carts, and I like them better then the game that came out for the DS specficially.
ReplyDeleteThey're a Turn Based, Strategy RPG with perm death, so you tend to get attached to your units. Mildly Anime inspired but not so badly that its annoying.
Runs off a Weapon triangle system that can be horribly broken at high levels - it a lot of fun.
I don't understand a single word any of you said. Zero. However, for a staid old fogie who topped out on Asteroids, listening to ya'll speak Martian piglatin is waaaay cool.
ReplyDeleteWas X-com, UFO defense available for that system?
ReplyDeleteThe FFIV remake is the closest thing that comes to mind, re: non-anime rpgs. Honestly, on the DS, you're pretty much stuck with JRPGs.
ReplyDeleteHowever, due to the graphical overhaul, they look a lot lets anime and more... half-way between PS1 and PS2-esque.
It's a very classic, "Shakespeare" style story. Maybe too formulaic for fans of 6+, but I think it's damn good. The music is great, too. OCRemix has a tribute album for it.
http://ocremix.org/album/14/final-fantasy-iv-echoes-of-betrayal-light-of-redemption
But yeah, I can't think of any western RPGs available for the system.
The answer to your desideratum #1 is: The Dark Spire.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.atlus.com/darkspire/
Thank me later.
Atlus games in general are good.
ReplyDeleteAs the others have pointed out, if you want a DS game, you're best off opening up to Japanese-style RPGs, and if you want a Western classical game, you're best off for the most part looking elsewhere.
Marko and I have been wrapped up in one such for awhile now, but you probably already knew that.
Great things is, Dark Spire is totally Western-style 1970s D&D rulebook aesthetic.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, just check the art. Your search has ended.
If you have an old DS (not one of those newfangled big screen ones) that can play Gameboy Advance games, you need Golden Sun. And I've heard that they're making a sequel, though I don't know if it is for the DS or Wii.
ReplyDeleteI got an arcade game.
ReplyDelete4 person.
Kinda hard to carry to the blogmeet.
Dang, I was going to recommend The Dark Spire, too. The only beef I have with it is the somewhat restrictive four-person party.
ReplyDeleteEtrian Odyssey (1 and 2) are also good dungeon crawlers, though with manga character artwork.
Fire Emblem is also a big favorite of mine. Running through the second GBA one, The Sacred Stones, right now.
I second (third? fifth? whatever...) Advance Wars. For a western RPG, check out Orcs & Elves (I suggest 'shopping' on Goozex.com. Good stuff for all platforms).
ReplyDeleteSweet jeebus! Look at how much overlap there is between gun nerds and regular RPG and video game nerds.
ReplyDeleteMy people!
As far as RPGs go, I'm a fan of the SNES era FF games, 2 and 3 (US) in particular.
ReplyDelete1. Western-style RPGs are pretty scarce on all video game consoles (heck, they're getting scarce on PC). I've been pretty addicted to Puzzle Quest and Mario and Luigi: Partners in Time, but those are obviously nothing like Baldur's Gate or The Elder Scrolls.
ReplyDelete2. There are a ton of great DS strategy games (more tactical RPGs than you can shake a stick at), but few 4X games. There's Civilization Revolution and Age of Empires on the DS, and that's about it. Even those two might be too light on resource management and research to be fun for people weaned on complex empire-building games.
Wow.
ReplyDeleteWhat Stephen said, except I've played an X-box...
Buy an XBOX360.
ReplyDeleteBuy Dragon Age: Origins.
Apologize to your readers when you don't post any new content for a week...
I am with you on prefering realistic...no, hold on...I mean prefering the classic fantasy image over the cartoony nonsense that's invaded our way of (avoiding) life.
ReplyDeleteYou can get a device that's like a blank cartrige that runs emmulators for old titles.
Seeing as the DS layout almost perfectly mimics an SNES contoller...I'd reccomend the Might & Magic series
(FWIW I'm pretty sure none of what I just described is illegal, if you are worried about that sort of thing)
Boy am I old. RPG to me is Rocket Propelled Grenade....
ReplyDeleteOr Dungeons and dragons before they had the strange dice.
DS? You're hosed. Few to no such beasts of either stripe.
ReplyDeleteFor 4X, the best ones are still on the PC. Advance Wars on the DS is a great little turn-based wargame, but not a 4X. Outside of a few PC releases, 4Xs are almost as dead as flight sims. Civ 5 is on the way, though...or already here, I'm not sure.
For Non-J RPGs, your best bet is either PC or modern console (360, PS3). Oblivion and Dragon Age are both good, though Oblivion is delightfully more immersive than DA; you can wander the countryside for hours, and find all sorts of things to do. It is somewhat lonely, though - there's really no party system, you're out on your own. DA has a more traditional party system, but it's...clunky, in other areas. It's like BioWare didn't learn a damn thing from Mass Effect (good SFRPG), and took a few steps backwards.
You kids stop playing with RPGs in the house! Look what you've done to the wall!
ReplyDeleteGet out in the street and play! Why, when I was your age we used pineapple and potato masher grenades and liked it! You ever try to hit anything with a launcher on an '03 Springfield? And if any of the kids on the street showed up with spiky hair we hold him to go take a bath! Even if it wasn't Saturday!
Kids today. *grump*
Or sometimes we told him to. Depended on circumstance. But in any case you can damn well bet we previewed our comments before we posted'em! 'Cause back then we were civilized, dammit!
ReplyDeleteJoel,
ReplyDeleteWarn us next time so we can put down the coffee...
Too funny. Kids today, indeed.
I agree with the Etrian Odyssey recommendation for the traditional RPG fare, though be warned: it's freaking difficult. There is even a song about how hard the game is.
ReplyDeleteI also agree with Labrat: Atlus is awesome, the stuff they make (not just publish) even more so, such as the Etrian Odyssey and Shin Megami Tensei games.
Other "old-school" RPG recommendations: Final Fantasy IV (on the DS), Final Fantasy I & II (on the GBA, they're on the same cartridge), Dragon Quest IX. Would also recommend Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey, but I'm not sure how much you'd like the sci-fi story or the fact that you recruit demons to your cause...
Unfortunately, you're going to be hard-pressed to find non-JRPGs on the DS; luckily, said RPGs tend to lean on the more traditional side in this case because developers are more willing to take risks sales-wise. As for the art style, the only game I can think of that's not absolutely in an anime style is Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey (Devil Survivor, on the other hand, is very manga-esque) and the Final Fantasy games. This is due to the fact that the console has limited hardware capabilities, so it's much easier to pull off cartoony styles and look good rather than trying to go for a realistic, "western RPG" (read: realtime realistic 3D graphics for cutscenes, etc.) style and look...not so good. Thus, a decent amount of the games on the system, not just the genre, have anime-esque art styles.
...I'd also recommend Pokemon, except that I think I'll get shot. xD
Also also: I totally recommend NOT getting a 360. They break too much. And I think people can live without playing BioWare's and Bethesda's buggy-as-hell western "RPGs".
Wrong platform.
ReplyDeleteA PC loaded with Civ 4 and World Of Warcraft will do exactly what you asked for.
You can play the latter for free for ten days. ( during the trail account, you can't talk to other players ... that is turned off to thwart gold spammers. )
Silver, I like you, but I'm in the middle of Mass Effect 2 and I may have to draw down on you for your slander on Bioware.
ReplyDelete(And I second Kristopher. I'm still playing Civ 4 from time to time.)
My husband says
ReplyDeleteFinal Fantasy Tactics (though some lean towards scifi)
anything Dragonquest is usually decent
Civ rocks btw
In my day, pencil and paper and funny shaped dice were good enough for us.
ReplyDeleteAnd books. Lots and lots of books.
Which reminds me of the guy who was so upset by Advanced D&D, he sabotaged every run we made the mistake of letting play in form years...
BioWare? Buggy?
ReplyDeleteI hear stories about BG2 having bugs, but have never encountered them. The only bug I've ever hit was in Kotor... left a character stealthed before a cutscene and paid the price.
The new Golden Sun will be for the DS. Currently it's slated to come out on November 1. Of course in January, it was due in March, and last November it was due in January, so treat that date as tentative.
ReplyDeleteWarhammer 40k: Squad Command. A turn based unit combat (you can customize you squads weapons, tanks, etc) Line of sight with fully destructible 3D battlefields. (guy hiding behind a wall? blow the wall and him up with you lascannon.)
ReplyDelete