Holy smoke!
That was stage two, which involved a stroll downrange on a roped off path that started out with the shotgun and finished with some cardboard pistol targets. In between were some steel plates and a triple plate rack that were optional pistol/shotgun targets.
I'd been slow but accurate with the pistol and reloading the shotgun on the clock could be timed with an hourglass, so once I broke all the clays, I ditched the gauge and drew my pistol and on the first target noticed I had a problem: My smokeless powder wasn't.
Gray steel and brown cardboard against beige desert dust, the whole thing obscured by a floating cloud of smoke lit bright white with my CTC LightGuard
. Without the light the targets blended almost perfectly with the
background. With the light the smoke was like fog lit by high beams.Here is my question, internets: Was it the switch to the WWB that produced more smoke? Or was it some trick of the weather (the air had gotten distinctly colder and clammier as we neared the dew point)?
I'd go with atmospheric conditions- but did you notice a difference in smell between your loads and other people's?
ReplyDeleteThe change in humidity for sure didn't help, but my experience is that WWB is really smokey stuff compared to other loads. I've always assumed it was the powder.
ReplyDeleteIt's unbelievable how dirty .38spl WWB cases are after my wife shoots them in her lever action, so I would tend toward the WWB being the culprit too.
ReplyDeleteWWB is known for smoke/fouling. It's cheap for a reason.
ReplyDeleteWWB is dirty, noticeably.
ReplyDeleteWe could also SEE the bullet go down range in the right range lights.
Starting to think that WWB is about half black powder.
ReplyDeleteNot sure about your batch of Win ammo, Tam, but the stuff I've pulled bullets on for various reasons have used exposed-base FMJ slugs (visible lead on the base). Some of that lead gets vaporized by the burning powder and seems to cause both more smoke and more fouling on the exterior of the pistol (I see it a lot on the ported Glocks and their front sights, but it's also visible on the front of the frame and slide on non-ported pistols).
ReplyDeleteI think Federal is using plated lead bullets (no exposed lead on bullet base) in most batches of their bulk-pack Champion 9mm ammo, and it does seem to be a bit cleaner and shows less smoke when fired.
If you have any ammo left, pull a few bullets and let us know what you find.
DJ,
ReplyDeleteBoth the Federal and Winchester are conventional FMJ with exposed lead bases, AFAIK.
I know that Speer Lawman uses a TMJ bullet...
One of the combustion products (from any flammable with hydrogen atoms in it) is water vapor.
ReplyDeleteIn clammy conditions (low temperature + high humidity), the water vapor is cooled rapidly, but once cooled the cloud of combustion products is more than 100% humidity - the water vapor comes out of solution in the air, creating a suspension of tiny water droplets called fog.
You'll also notice that you can see your breath if you breathe near where shooting was going on, even if it's not cold enough to otherwise see your breath. Same thing.
Since my muzzy makes more smoke on colder wetter conditions, I would lean towards the air conditions rather than some inherent flaw in the ammo based on price to deliver.
ReplyDeleteI will admit it is hard shooting black powder to notice the quantity of smoke, but I noticed it most on target acquisition after the shot.
My 2 coppers.
I can tell you having SO'd matches, some ammo is much smokier than others. When we shot IMI Samson ammo it was like the Battleship New Jersey was firing broadsides.
ReplyDeleteIt appears worse with reloads. Is it the powder not burning completely?
Gerry
Quite a few years back, I worked at a tourist trap of an amusement park in Maggie Valley NC called "Ghost Town" located high up on a mountaintop. It's signature event was a hourly gunfight (usually the sheriff against bank robbers, but also the stray indian). He had a sawed off double barrelled 12G that he would use occasionally.
ReplyDeleteOne day we had an exceptionally muggy afternoon. At the end of the staged fight he let loose with both barrels of the hand cannon and created a humongous cloud of smoke that filled the entire street and you could not see through it. After a moment he came walking out of the cloud, trying to catch his breath. There was no breeze at all so the smoke just hung there for several minutes.
I feel your pain. I have both shot and SOed night matches where cast lead reloads were in use.
ReplyDeleteThe bulk of my night time shooting has been 9mm Monarch steel case from Academy Sports. It's made in Russia and I've never found it to be a problem (I'm too cheap to try WWB :-) ).
My worst ever "blind even with a good light" experience was when one of the barrier walls had a white USPSA no shoot stapled to the end we had to shoot from. I hit the button on the Tomahawk when I was a couple feet from the wall and reflected most of that 120 lumens back into my face.
You might could also count the time they went non-IDPA and let us use mounted lights. I don't own one so I borrowed one from a friend. I obviously didn't familiarize with mounting it enough and it departed the gun during the recoil cycle of the first shot after the buzzer.
Now that I think about it I have seen others use WWB in the same night matches I shoot and don't recall them being noticibly smokey.
ReplyDeleteSo my bet would be atmospheric conditions and/or you got a bad batch.
Holy smoke! (And pardon the pun, but I'm proud of it.)
ReplyDeleteTam, there apparently are two "DJ's" out here. I am me, and always have been.
DJ
White box uses a commercial ball powder, supposedly, that is similar to 230 or 231. The cowboy action guys at my club shoot 231 (or hodgdon 38) in their (modern)revolvers/wild bunch guns just because it is smokier. I bet this combined with the atmospheric conditions made it difficult for you. One way or another, this is damned useful information in that it could make a home defense situation a disaster. Nice catch, Tam.
ReplyDeleteSwiss FFFg makes very little smoke and burns very clean.
ReplyDeleteI'd be tempted to load some pistol cartridges with it, and compare the smoke to WWB, Magtech, or those awful Thunderbolt .22s.
First, sorry about the "DJ" confusion; I didn't know there was already a regular commenter with that name (I only drop-in occasionally). I'll append a number to separate myself, and use DJ9 from now on.
ReplyDeleteTam -- Here is a pulled bullet from a partial bulk-pack box of Federal Champion 9mm that I had left in my range bag, and it has an enclosed base. They do seem to use different bullets in different lots/batches of ammo, but this is what I've seen from the last few I've pulled-down for whatever reason.
http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/1391/oqej.jpg
I won't say they are ALL the same, but AFAIK, it's been the norm for the last year or so. I have a couple of different lots in the ammo drawer, so I'll check one from each lot as I shoot them, and let you know if I see anything different.
Tam,
ReplyDeleteanother data point for you. Attended a night class in the desert outside of Pahrump NV, some years ago. Reduced size classes, maybe 10 or so shooters on the line. This was around July 4th. At the time, I was thinking that the dust we were kicking up from the gravel/dirt range was only noticeable with a flashlite in the dark, but now realize that that was actually powder smoke. Just a light haze, not enough to obscure the targets, even with the P6/G2 Surefire I was using. Probably PMC ammo in a G27 w/nightsites. No idea what the others were shooting, mostly from Wally world, I expect.