One other thing about them is they're a very specialized weapon and aren't very forgiving of poor technique. Having studied iaido off and on and having a solid grasp of the basic technique involved with a katana, I much prefer the European falchion (if limited to swords) or a good tomahawk/hatchet.
Neither is much good without training. The author said that despite his extensive training with swords, he'd give it up in favor of a spear in SHTF. Since he mentions no such training with the spear, I'm not sure that would be a good move.
Having the proper hardware is certainly important, but without the proper software, the best hardware can be next to useless. The man is the weapon.
I'm just wondering, but wouldn't a spear be at a severe disadvantage in any kind of close quarters situation, such as inside a house, or in a heavily wooded area? Once the sword user gets inside the arc of the person with the spear, they're screwed. I think the spear worked so well was because they were used in mass. Plus, it was a LOT easier to train someone how to use one vs. a sword.
The Zulus and others figured out the spear in close quatrters issue. They had long spears and short spears, one for standoff, one for stabbing in close.
Everyone is talking about swords, spears, and cement trucks.
I maintain that the greatest evolution in video games is a control scheme and development of controllers. Control being the key hold-back of early systems. Analog controllers and not exactly reliable key-strokes and button pushes of the Atari 2600 or NES are long gone. Replaced with a system of controllers and keys with pressure sensitivity and speed control and precision input from both digital and analog inputs. It is quite amazing. That said the evolution of display that allows a gamer to effectively manage almost as much information as your brain can process from a single visual input source, is equally impressive.
This guy's videos may be of interest to the history nerd in you. Warning--when I discovered him on accident one evening, I suddenly found I'd lost a few hours.
David is correct; training matters. I say that as someone who has trained and practiced with swords for... dear Bog, better than 30 years now (I have weird hobbies). The specific situation matters in weapon choice, as Bill J's article mentions.
In world without firearms, my individual personal defense tool would be a European-style broadsword, blade length 30 inches. Long enough for reach, short enough to use in somewhat close quarters. But in a "militia call up" scenario, I'd want a spear or a halberd (if working the flanks or as a skirmisher).* I'd want a short sword for emergency close quarters defense if the line broke, as 10+ foot spears are awkward when the bad guys are within that range. [grin]
Back in my SCA days (maybe they've improved since; it's been quite a few years), this is one thing that they generally got wrong in their "wars": A shield wall of swordsmen with big shields, backed by a comparatively few spearmen. The guys on the line typically opted for long swords so they could reach their opponents (which was actually the job of the spearmen), and mostly tangled up themselves. It didn't help that most had little to zero training in being a shield wall... or they'd have figured out why the Romans used the gladius and a hell of a lot of training and discipline (discipline, so they wouldn't break ranks and charge out to "honorably" challenge the entire enemy line an die embarrassingly- also typical for the SCA back when).
Historically, another point to consider was that worked iron used to be expensive. You might only have one sharp pointy tool. If you were a woodcutter, your axe was your militia call up weapon; others would show up with their hunting spears. Even wooden pitch forks. They wouldn't have swords because they'd need them so rarely (we're talking the commoners, not noble/royal parasites now) they couldn't invest the barter goods in something so limited in utility. Swords make lousy boar spears or axes, as a general rule.
----- * Bows/arrows are dual purpose devices, useful in hunting or combat (and yew -- speaking of the traditional English longbow -- was cheaper than metal anyway. I didn't mention that as a preference because my archery experience is pretty limited; even when I did sometimes pickup a bow, I was only a novice.
As to the Roman use of throwing spears - their pilum was designed to only work for one throw, the metal tip coming off the wooden rod as it impacted, bending if it hit something hard.
Them Romans weren't about to toss the enemy a reusable weapon.
Regarding katanas;
ReplyDeleteOne other thing about them is they're a very specialized weapon and aren't very forgiving of poor technique. Having studied iaido off and on and having a solid grasp of the basic technique involved with a katana, I much prefer the European falchion (if limited to swords) or a good tomahawk/hatchet.
Why did they cut the cement truck video off before it hits the car?
ReplyDeleteWHA...No no no. I have it on good authority (The Blind Samurai movies) that the Katana was THE main weapon of Japan FOREVER. BWAHAHAHAHAH
ReplyDeleteThe sword vs. spear debate?
ReplyDeleteNeither is much good without training. The author said that despite his extensive training with swords, he'd give it up in favor of a spear in SHTF. Since he mentions no such training with the spear, I'm not sure that would be a good move.
Having the proper hardware is certainly important, but without the proper software, the best hardware can be next to useless. The man is the weapon.
I'm just wondering, but wouldn't a spear be at a severe disadvantage in any kind of close quarters situation, such as inside a house, or in a heavily wooded area? Once the sword user gets inside the arc of the person with the spear, they're screwed. I think the spear worked so well was because they were used in mass. Plus, it was a LOT easier to train someone how to use one vs. a sword.
ReplyDeleteThe Cult of the Japanese Sword is a powerful one!
ReplyDeleteME? I like shotguns.
gfa
The Zulus and others figured out the spear in close quatrters issue. They had long spears and short spears, one for standoff, one for stabbing in close.
ReplyDeleteIn SHTF situations, a spear would be useful for other things besides defense: fishing, hunting, walking stick, etc.
ReplyDeleteAnd, I think it's a general rule of life: without practice ANY tool or weapon isn't going to do you much good.
And yeah, my choice is the reason I stockpile certain calibers of ammo.
Didn't Romans also use spears? I think they threw the spear, then closed up to use the short swords.
ReplyDeleteThe short spears the Zulu used were more of a stabbing weapon, just like the short sword of the Romans.
spears are cheap and swords, especially excellent swords like katanas, are expensive.
ReplyDeletealso, lame cement truck videos are lame.
Everyone is talking about swords, spears, and cement trucks.
ReplyDeleteI maintain that the greatest evolution in video games is a control scheme and development of controllers. Control being the key hold-back of early systems. Analog controllers and not exactly reliable key-strokes and button pushes of the Atari 2600 or NES are long gone. Replaced with a system of controllers and keys with pressure sensitivity and speed control and precision input from both digital and analog inputs. It is quite amazing. That said the evolution of display that allows a gamer to effectively manage almost as much information as your brain can process from a single visual input source, is equally impressive.
Oh yea - let's talk about video games some more.
-Rob
This guy's videos may be of interest to the history nerd in you. Warning--when I discovered him on accident one evening, I suddenly found I'd lost a few hours.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/channel/UCt14YOvYhd5FCGCwcjhrOdA
"Not in the face!"
ReplyDeleteConcrete evidence of negligent driving.
David: with equivalent training, the spear IS a more effective weapon.
ReplyDeleteFemale samurai were allowed to use Yari in duels, an admitted advantage to compensate smaller stature.
I'm a Kendoist myself. That long reach is a tough advantage to overcome.
LCB: correct. The Pilium was a thrown weapon, designed to kill, or at least make a barbarian's shield useless.
ReplyDeleteIt also had a soft bendable shaft, making it difficult for the enemy to throw them back at you.
Kristophr...I didn't say one weapon was superior to another.
ReplyDeleteI actually said that the weapon was the man himself, and that without appropriate training, neither was very useful.
As I have some training with a sword, and none with a spear (and no way to obtain proper training)...which weapon should I choose? You tell me.
David is correct; training matters. I say that as someone who has trained and practiced with swords for... dear Bog, better than 30 years now (I have weird hobbies). The specific situation matters in weapon choice, as Bill J's article mentions.
ReplyDeleteIn world without firearms, my individual personal defense tool would be a European-style broadsword, blade length 30 inches. Long enough for reach, short enough to use in somewhat close quarters. But in a "militia call up" scenario, I'd want a spear or a halberd (if working the flanks or as a skirmisher).* I'd want a short sword for emergency close quarters defense if the line broke, as 10+ foot spears are awkward when the bad guys are within that range. [grin]
Back in my SCA days (maybe they've improved since; it's been quite a few years), this is one thing that they generally got wrong in their "wars": A shield wall of swordsmen with big shields, backed by a comparatively few spearmen. The guys on the line typically opted for long swords so they could reach their opponents (which was actually the job of the spearmen), and mostly tangled up themselves. It didn't help that most had little to zero training in being a shield wall... or they'd have figured out why the Romans used the gladius and a hell of a lot of training and discipline (discipline, so they wouldn't break ranks and charge out to "honorably" challenge the entire enemy line an die embarrassingly- also typical for the SCA back when).
Historically, another point to consider was that worked iron used to be expensive. You might only have one sharp pointy tool. If you were a woodcutter, your axe was your militia call up weapon; others would show up with their hunting spears. Even wooden pitch forks. They wouldn't have swords because they'd need them so rarely (we're talking the commoners, not noble/royal parasites now) they couldn't invest the barter goods in something so limited in utility. Swords make lousy boar spears or axes, as a general rule.
-----
* Bows/arrows are dual purpose devices, useful in hunting or combat (and yew -- speaking of the traditional English longbow -- was cheaper than metal anyway. I didn't mention that as a preference because my archery experience is pretty limited; even when I did sometimes pickup a bow, I was only a novice.
David: Choose the Bazooka. And a castle parapet to stand on.
ReplyDeleteIf it was good enough for Rambo, it should be good enough for me.
ReplyDeleteHe took his survival knife and tied it to a long tree branch before he went after that wild hog.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-5KMmhZa8YGo/T2yUR51YTpI/AAAAAAAAG8Y/LP-a2xt0kL0/s1600/Rambo+Hunt+Pig.jpg
As to the Roman use of throwing spears - their pilum was designed to only work for one throw, the metal tip coming off the wooden rod as it impacted, bending if it hit something hard.
ReplyDeleteThem Romans weren't about to toss the enemy a reusable weapon.