...I'll note that the bar for "Mass Shooting" has been significantly lowered.
In most urban areas, that's called a "Double Homicide" and sometimes doesn't make page three of the local news, unless it's really spectacular, like the birthday cookout in Indy a couple years back that got sprayed in a drive-by, killing two and wounding six, which you didn't hear about because it happened to non-photogenic people in the 'hood.
Let it happen to whitey in a suburban mall, however, and the national satellite uplink trucks converge and the talking heads all rub their chins and furrow their brows for fifteen minutes on the network morning news program.
(You know the morning news program of which I speak: It's the one on the network that employs Bob Costas, the network being sued for lying about Mr. Zimmerman. No anti-gun Bias in their Coverage, no sirree.)
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56 comments:
Only described as an adult male, even on the website formerly known as MSNBC. Are they learning lessons, or does the shooter profile not fit the standard template?
They won't release names until next-of-kin are notified, at which point you will no doubt have all three of the goblin's names hammered into your ears.
I noticed that too.
Specifically it was in a recent "spree" killing in one of the Nordic countries. Two victims and the perp offs himself.
Similar effect there if I recall.
Oh Tam, will you be at Eagle Creek this weekend? I have another shipment of care packages.
They were really emphasizing "camo" and "body armor" when talking about it last night as if it the killer was a refuge from Doomsday Preppers.
John Richardson,
Bear in mind that these days the threshold for "body armor" has been lowered to "any nylon accoutrement incorporating velcro and/or fastex buckles".
The Jack,
"Oh Tam, will you be at Eagle Creek this weekend? I have another shipment of care packages."
I'm planning on Sunday. Bangity-bangity-bangity... :)
Cool! If I recall right, you go in the mornings. So, I can see you there.
This one's right in my back yard. If I get hassled at the grocery store I'm going to be very disappointed. To top it off, though, the newscaster last night jad some hilarious comment on how malls were a 'safe haven' which is to say this never happens in malls or anything. After all, Gun Free Zone! I'm displeased with this.
The Jack,
"Cool! If I recall right, you go in the mornings. So, I can see you there."
Don't forget that their December hours have them opening at noon, so I'll probably be in the parking lot at 11:45, chanting "Open, open, open..."
It was a gun free zone? You're kidding me!
Was it a gun free zone? I can't find info either way... I know Portland is very restricted...
In a world where the US government let guns go to Mexican drug thugs to push an agenda it doesn't seem completely out of line to wonder if these shooters aren't mentally programmed with the same goal in mind.
ScottJ,
"... it doesn't seem completely out of line to wonder if these shooters aren't mentally programmed with the same goal in mind."
There's no need to go snapping Occam's razor in half.
In this country, we have lots and lots of three things:
1. Guns
2. Stores
3. Crazy People
As long as those elements are around, every now and again, a 3 is going to carry a 1 into a 2 and open fire. Freedom is dangerous. You can take away the freedom and reduce the danger (although never eliminate it) or you can just accept that these things happen and conduct your life accordingly.
Scott J said...
it doesn't seem completely out of line to wonder if these shooters aren't mentally programmed with the same goal in mind.
Agent provocateurs? Programmed to commit suicide just before capture? Why would I not be surprised.
Robert Fowler,
"Agent provocateurs? Programmed to commit suicide just before capture? Why would I not be surprised."
*facepalm*
Yeah, because crazy people NEVER snap and shoot folks unless they're under the influence of government mind control...
The simple "crazy person" explanation is more likely I admit.
There just seem to be more of them in the past couple years.
Scott J,
"There just seem to be more of them in the past couple years."
No, the national media has just been paying more attention to each one, in the hopes that you would think just that.
That's what I'm wondering, Tam. Are they being more sensationalized or has my memory just faded with age.
I don't recall as many happening in W's two terms but that is quite awhile ago now.
I also agree with you that it is a cost of freedom thing.
It will be interesting to know if the mall was a CCW prohibited zone.
I highly doubt it was actual body armor...unless we've lowered the threshold to where something you'd wear to protect yourself from, say, an airsoft pellet counts.
The reports I've seen have the...person wearing a hockey mask. I see someone wearing a mask in a public setting, I think I'm going to be in triple red alert status.
Scott J said...
"I don't recall as many happening in W's two terms but that is quite awhile ago now."
No, but the shooters were alive during the Bush years, so its still his fault.
I shudder to think what the press will do when someone who knows SPORTS snaps.
Somewhere at some point we're going to have a PTSD marine or soldier (Or even worse some wanna be tactical nut) throw on a ghillie suit and reach out and touch people and not stop until he's dead.
How long would it take your average LEO to stop a man shooting people from half a mile away?
That, or some jackhole will go into a theater with a gas can again and we'll learn, again, that guns aren't the worst things people can be assholes with.
Woodman: Someday? Uh, the Texas Tower back in the '60s? Lee Harvey Oswald?
And why does it have to be a PTSD Vet? Sounds like the Hollywood Crap from the '70s about how ALL the 'Nam Vets were just Baby Killers waiting to Snap. "Taxi Driver" spring to mind?
If I recall from all the news reports over the last few years, most of the "Lone Gunman" Mass Shootings seem to involve some Teenage to 20-something Guy or some Irate Ex-Husband who decides to shoot up the Beauty Parlor with his Wife in it.
Bottom Line: A Nut Job is a Nut Job, no matter how old he is or whether he's a Vet. And the Choice of Weapon doesn't matter.
Moar money for schools! If only those poor kids had been able to read, they would have noted the "No weapons" signs and left peacefully.
Bubblehead Les,
"And why does it have to be a PTSD Vet?"
Uh, because this guy's weapon malf'ed and he obviously didn't know how to shoot, and Woodman wondered how the press is going to react when someone who knows how to shoot and how to clear malfs loses their shit and goes shootin'.
Simmer down and take the chip off your shoulder; he wasn't calling vets crazy.
Tam said...
Robert Fowler,
"Agent provocateurs? Programmed to commit suicide just before capture? Why would I not be surprised."
*facepalm*
Sarcasm just doesn't translate well with the written word.
I am amazed how they have lowered the threshold for "mass shootings". 2 dead (I don't count the crazy) used to be a local news item. I guess it a mass shooting because of the "evil assault rifle".
One more small fact. the mall is a "gun free zone". The company that owns it has a no weapons policy at all 200 of the malls they own.
@Old NFO, et al:
I posted over at RX's place, too. David Codrea (over at The War On Guns) reports Clackamas Town Center is owned/operated by General Growth Properties, which prohibits firearms at all their venues. Yes, it was/is a "Gun Free Zone".
However, OR State Law (technically, according to the Oregon Firearms Federation) says carrying under a posted "No Firearms Allowed" sign is a trespass issue - they can ask you to leave, and you can get in trouble IF you don't.
I live within 50 miles of the place, and it's ALL over ALL the news channels here. Interesting that some of the networks aren't saying anything about the gun. It only comes up in the witness statements ("big M-16", not that any would know). Also interesting that the WI, AZ, and Ft. Hood shootings had a LOT more casualties using handguns than this joker did with a "scary assault weapon".
Perhaps the newspeak definition of shooting means fired upon rather than hit.
Kinda like the definition of target engaged we use in IDPA.
Worked in NY City 15 years ago. Unless it was a high profile case, the Daily News put murders back with the weather and traffic.
OldeForce
And have there been any comments from Costas on the football player, drunk, driving at high speed, rolling his Mercedes and killing his buddy? OldeForce
Old NFO said: Was it a gun free zone? I can't find info either way... I know Portland is very restricted...
I'm pretty sure CTC Mall has a corporate "No Guns" policy, though I haven't checked.
Portland isn't all that bad - Oregon is Shall Issue, and hell, the Multnomah County Sheriff will even sign off on a Form 3 transfer these days.
Last night, one of my FB peeps (I live in Portland, so this was All Over Everything) said roughly "if you think the Founders wanted everyday people to be able to own assault rifles, get your head checked. Hunting rifles are okay, but those are only for the military".
I didn't have the heart (or desire to engage with someone making an emotional argument) to point out that A) that's exactly what the Founders wanted and B) if he'd had a Hunting Rifle rather than that AR, he'd have killed more than two people, almost certainly.
"Woodman: Someday? Uh, the Texas Tower back in the '60s? Lee Harvey Oswald?"
That's exactly what I'm talking about. There hasn't been someone who knows what he's doing snap like that in 50 years.
Tam hit my point on the head. It doesn't have to be a veteran. That is a large pool of trained people, that may be less likely to snap for some reasons, but more likely for others. No, I'm not looking for First Blood. I'm looking for Joe slept with my wife while I was on deployment, I know she's at the mall now. Let's get them all.
Two shootings in the last year where the only reason there weren't more bodies is because the shooter didn't know how to use the gun right, and probably bought cheap ammo.
Someone serious, with a plan, and he'll clear the mall.
I'm a vet myself, there are no more, or less, crazy people in the military than anywhere else (Crazy acting, hands down the military wins, I don't think I've seen anyone do naked ballet on the range out here in civilian land). I think the additional responsibilities that many veterans feel reduces the odds, OTOH, the additional strain could even it back up to the rest of the population.
Woodman:
Fort Hood. Although he wasn't crazy, he was a traitor.
Fort Bragg back in the early 90's or so. Pretty sure the PT Shooter was just off his nut.
For 30 years I've said teh guy who scares teh Bejeebus out of me is if some old grandpa with his trusty scattergun he's been hunting with since ammo boxes were still labelled "Smokeless", snaps. Even with a side-by-side, he'll likely rack up a body count that'll look like My Lai.
Don't forget that their December hours have them opening at noon, so I'll probably be in the parking lot at 11:45, chanting "Open, open, open..."
Oooooh yeah. Forgot about that.
Least this year they're open over the winter.
Geodkyt, well yeah, that's pretty much up there with confronting a angry 10 year old with a knife on my list of things I'd rather not do.
Ft Bragg, I suppose I sound like I'm being too picky, but that's not what I'm looking for here.
The PT shooter I had totally forgotten about, and I guess that's more what I'm talking about.
I guess I'm looking for an incident where a 12 year old can't plan it better. Maybe people really don't operate that way, when you crack like that your facility for reasoning things through goes as well. Columbine, the kids had pipe bombs, didn't use them, stuff like that.
According to a local newsreader absent any hint of irony, "his semiotic rifle jammed." Must have been a Lit major.
@ Robert Fowler,
" I guess it a mass shooting because of the "evil assault rifle""
It was the Disarmed Victim Zone (Gun Free Zone) that provided the venue, and also what defines the "(disarmed) target rich environment) that makes it a mass shooting. It was the number of people at risk that made it a mass shooting.
That, and air time and lurid headlines make for booming media careers for the talking heads.
As Archer mentioned, it's owned by General Growth Properties, which has a "Gun Free Zone" policy at all of it's properties, including the Westroads Mall in Omaha, Nebraska where a shooting took place in 2007.
According to the article I read he had several fully loaded magazines. Obviously we need to ban fully load magazines.
@Anonymous 18:03:
An OR legislator introduced a bill to ban the transfer of greater-than-10 capacity magazines, THE DAY AFTER this shooting. They don't waste any time, do they?
In fairness, she hates gun rights and introduces the same bills every session - mag capacity limits, kill pre-emption, limit places CCW-ers can CCW, etc. - but then again, there's the old saw about never letting a crisis go to waste....
Wifey noted that a guy who goes to the mall just before Christmas and starts blasting away only killing 2 people really sucks at killing people. I suppose that is a good thing for suburban Oregon shippers.
As I posted at Bobbi's, it is now being reported that the AR was stolen.
Anon 6:03,
" Obviously we need to ban fully load magazines. "
He wore pants. Maybe we should ban pants. And shoes. And gun free zones.
@ Anon 6:03 et al
Actually, the city of Portland DOES have a ban on loaded magazines. And the 10rd legislation was talked up within 18 hrs of the shooting. Its almost certainly a re-introduction of previous failed legislation.
Have y,all noticed that all the nut job killers(Portland, Denver ECT) lately have used AR-15s and all have stoped in mid-spree cause the rifle jamed?
Turns out this one was another emo retard with mental issues ... mid twenties, schizophrenia kicks in, and it's violence time.
The Clackamas County Sheriff's Deputies shut him down. They have an office in that mall. They went out into the mall and marched on the sounds of the gun, instead of doing the SWAT thing.
Emo retard ducks into a service corridor and shoots himself, once he learns the big-shot time is over for him.
Wolfman: That legislation is illegal in Oregon.
Every time someone appeals the $60 fine, the Portland city attorney drops the case.
Anon 9:19,
"Have y,all noticed that all the nut job killers(Portland, Denver ECT) lately have used AR-15s and all have stoped in mid-spree cause the rifle jamed?"
I often stope when things jame, ECT.
"Hige sceal the heardra heorte the cenre
mod sceal the mare the ure maegen lytlath
her lith ure ealdoe eall forheawen
god on greote a maeg gnornian
se the nu fram this wigplegan wendan thenceth."
Y'AI'NG'NGAH
YOG-SOTHOTH
H'EE-L'GEB
F'AI THRODOG
UAAAH
I think you guys missed the sarcasm tag on fully ie they should ban fully loaded magazines.
It was more a comment on the way in which reports report.
Anon: If they banned fully loaded magazines, then these emo retards would have more reliable shooting tools ... leaving a round or two out makes most magazines work better.
I'd rather they put ALL of their ammo in an improperly maintained and dead full drum magazine.
Once that immediately jams, they will have to bayonet charge their victims.
Again with the fail.
My comment is sarcastical in nature, and amied at the reporting.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2012/12/oregon_mall_shooting_debunking_myths_about_the_clackamas_town_center_attack.html
Woodman: Or the Beltway snipers - one was a teenager, but the other one was ex-Army. I'm not sure which one was the "brains", but it's all too clear which one provided the rifle training.
Whitman (the Texas Tower shooter in the 60's) was an ex-Marine with a brain tumor. His training made him more dangerous when he snapped, but this was an era when most adult males were or had been in the service. And very few of those trained riflemen ever snapped. I can think of just two - one was a foul-up in the Marines and a convert to Communism, and the other was a good Marine and a good citizen until something grew inside his head.
Nowadays only a small minority of men enter boot camp, and this country sure doesn't seem safer. We've got better treatment for brain tumors such as Whitman's, but we seem to have many more vectors for various infectious brain defects, as exhibited by Oswald, Hassan, the Beltway snipers, etc.
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