Wednesday, December 07, 2011

All aboard the failtrain...

Over at Pistol-Forums.com yesterday, I ran across this:



Wait, is there a mag in that gun when he's jabbing the dude in the throat?!?

(And what's with the throat jab with a pistol, anyway? You crush somebody's larynx with a muzzle strike, and they're very likely going to croak. If you want to croak somebody with a pistol, I can think of a much easier way to do it, and if you don't want to croak them, then you don't have any business punching them in the throat with a pistol. Especially a loaded pistol)

I am kind of appalled to find out how numbed I am at the sight of students doing the downrange "trust your buddy" drills. It seems that standing next to the target is just routine now in certain circles. My (only slightly tongue-in-cheek) prediction is that really "hardcore", "renegade", "leading edge" trainers will have people holding targets during "trust your buddy" drills by this time next year.

And what's with this little waltz drill around the 3:15 mark? What exactly is that accomplishing? "I've got this guy grappling at arm's length, so I'm going to pull my heater out with one hand and hold it out where he can grab it easily and try shooting at something else while he's still squirming around and resisting in my weak hand."

The pièce de résistance, however, was the throw at the end: "Okay, come at me, bro! No, first put your foot right there..."

I have learned a new rule, though: If the trainer you're thinking of using advertises his business by photoshopping his face into video game artwork, this should be a clue to seek training elsewhere.

67 comments:

pdb said...

As alarming as the double "shoot past your buddy" drill was, the repeated contact-throat-muzzling was where this video turned the corner from WTF street onto SOMEONE'S GONNA F'N DIE avenue.

There is flat out no useful skill or tactic students can learn from either exercise and I'm wondering if the ever more scary gun handling we're seeing from these bottom feeding "training" outfits is some kind of bizarre bonding or initiation ritual that generates Stockholm syndrome loyalty.

Tango Juliet said...

I don't know about you Tam but I happen to possess Herculean strength and can easily control any other individual on the planet even if they too have Herculean strength. My rock solid shooting platform would in no way be affected. In fact, it might even be enhanced 'cause I stood by targets while a guy I didn't know shot at them.

Why they didn't include footage of the "trust" shoot while the shooter was wrasslin' with an assailant is beyond me.

It would have been thrilling to see.

Back to reality....

Whatever happened to "GET OUT OF THE HOLE!!!!!" What happened to "Keep your eyes focused on the threat?" And "MAKE THEM ADVANCE THROUGH A WALL OF LEAD!!!"

Yuck. Just yuck.

Tam said...

"Why they didn't include footage of the "trust" shoot while the shooter was wrasslin' with an assailant is beyond me."

Those outtakes are buried in the berm.

Balloon Goes Up said...

In the last scene before the video game cover he is doing hand to hand training with a real gun WITH A BLUE GUN IN HIS BACK POCKET!!!!

Tam said...

I have no idea why a man willing to throat-punch a student with a live handgun even owns a blue gun.

Sigman said...

Just when you've seen the most dangerous instructor out there, something like this comes along.

Tam said...

Sigman,

It's like there's a certain segment of the market that is constantly trying to surpass each other in their badass outlawry.

I'm waiting for the first instructor to slap his name on a special syllabus for dual-wielding pistols.

Anonymous said...

On my third cup of coffee, but I'm starting to worry about my cognitive abilities. I just don't get it. The wrasslin was paused for the shooting, but standing down range - eff dat. Nothing good will come from that.

Scofflaw

wv - warit - somebody's brains if you train like that

Bubblehead Les. said...

OMG! I went to this dude's site, found out that they are based in the Philippines, and were actually hired to train the Presidential Security Force!

Please, please, please, let's keep that Jackie Chan School of Gun Fighting across the pond, okay?

Anonymous said...

Yes, it's Filipino. The praying mantis kung fu stuff is actually eskrima. The punching the students stuff in the throat with a pistol so I can stand out of the herd is pure madness.

Shootin' Buddy

Tam said...

Bubblehead Les,

"I went to this dude's site, found out that they are based in the Philippines..."

Don't they have lawyers over there?

Anybody who can even spell "L-I-A-B-I-L-I-T-Y" would have their distal sphincter slam shut with an audible "thud!" on watching that clip.

Derfel Cadarn said...

Stupid and wrong on so many levels that comment is near impossible. I suppose if you are being attacked by a video game this skill set may be useful. Would definitely work on Mario but with Ms Pacman you would be toast.

That Guy said...

Oh... my... Gawd. It still makes my skin crawl to see stuff like this.

Yikes.

Anonymous said...

Training with hot weapons is standing practice in the P.I. It is a carry over from Arnis, eskrima and other FMA/IMA. Many instructors train with "live" weapons (sharpened knives, swords).

Steve Tarani tells of the first time he was handed a "training knife" and told to demonstrate a drill. "Stefe, please show us."

Tarani did it with the assistant instructor (which involve a simulated armpit thrust and neck slice) and then realized the knife was razor sharp and nearly passed out.

Rauðbjorn said...

Silly rabbit.
Guns are for shooting, knives are for stabbing.
Isn't this the same guy who teaches people how to disarm an opponent holding a cocked firearm?

TomcatTCH said...

Everything else has been nicly covered. My only wrap up is "OMFG!"

My only addition is I am at a complete loss as to why one would not shoot the threat trying to disarm you before shooting the threat somewhere down range.

Shrimp said...

Dude, that guy is in soooo much trouble for showing the super-awesome ninja-school takedowns and mad shooting skilz. I mean, who does this guy think he is? He can't just show this stuff to anyone with more money than sense! They have to be selected from the food courts of malls all across the world before they can learn to take a working pistol and purposefully erase the distance between them and their target. I pity the fool when Gecko45 finds him.

Of course, considering that G45's plan A was to soak up .338 Lapua rounds with his homemade armor, maybe this dood will survive.

Mikael said...

How about the stuff around the 3 minute mark? Is this training to fire at cops while holding a hostage or something?

Ed Rasimus said...

The array of guys around the background going tap/tap with the sticks reminds me of a Run Run Shaw kung-fu movie where the bad guys are all training until Bruce Lee arrives and whips them all.

Why would you close to stick-fight range with a shouldered shotgun/rifle?

North said...

I make up my own tactical training, too. I've incorporated the rigorous training I received from watching most of this video. Specifically I've incorporated saying "boom" when I shoot my gun.

I've also superimposed my face on Mario's body. Booyah.

Andy said...

That hip throw at the end didn't require the submission hold because the uki was obviously in pain due to the fact that he just landed on all that gear around his belt. O Goshi hurts even on mats. Doing it on hard dirt has gotta be painful. Having that canteen or double mag pouch jammed into your lower back by landing on it is gonna suck.

Woodman said...

Way to look out for his uki too.

"I'm demonstrating this, so I'll load him up all the way up here on my back and sky hook his ass so it looks real good on camera. Forget the fact that I could do the same throw and teach the same thing and hardly hurt him."

That's one of my favorite throws, but I usually don't get someone up that high, at 6'4" it's no fun to fall off the top of the ferris wheel. Though maybe his Judo class doesn't include the "mutual welfare" clause, obviously his hand gun training doesn't.

atlharp said...

I swear the mall ninja factor was hitting about a 8 out of 10. The extended Glock 17 mags along with his awesome stick fighting skills should earn him a place among the ranks of zomgz!

A better name for all of this would have been: "When airsoft gets realz!" Maybe they did the training for that security company in Birmingham!

Keith said...

I was not aware that Splinter Cell games were actually training simulators. To think of all that money I wasted on ammo when I could have just bought the game.

Anonymous said...

I can forgive the possible death count, it is just Darwinism in action. I find I am able to shrug and say 'Hey, that training may as be as realistic and useful as learning to fight in Zero G, but you never know, someday, maybe.....' . I can even (maybe) ignore shades, ponytails and getting pumped up for a Vid.

But having a tattoo of barbed wire around your bicep!!! Now that is truly fukin' criminal.

Cheers- Rusty

North said...

Not a tattoo. That is actually where barbed wire comes from.

An Ordinary American said...

*shrug*

This company is based in SE Asia, with specific contracts in Hong Kong (lots of them there), Manila, Tokyo and Seoul.

Asia is an entirely different world and culture than ours.

Lawyers and liability? Doesn't happen in Asia. Totally different culture and court system than ours--especially in Japan.

Many years ago in my former LE days, our agency was the U.S. liaison for Interpol. I remember, all too well, pre-raid briefings by the Hong Kong LE and how the hair on our necks stood on end.

Different world, different culture.

They have streets and neighborhoods in Hong Kong that make Detroit look like a playground for aspiring nuns and altar boys. And just like here at home, the criminal element use those neighborhoods to give them safe harbor from law enforcement.

Kidnapping is huge in Asia, and protective detail routines and training is a lot more severe. Unlike here in North America, a kidnapping victim's chances of survival if taken from their protective detail is pretty much zero--but not before they are tortured and carved up one piece at a time.

Different culture, different rules.

From an American viewpoint, I agree with Tam about photoshopping your face on a superhero's body.

But this is Asia, and that culture reveres their superheroes and give them larger than life status--and have been that way for centuries before the first Tea Party ever happened on our own shores.

Not necessarily defending or denying anything on the video, just giving a different perspective from one who spent a lot of time in SE Asia in both the military and in law enforcement, as well as in private sector business that was totally unrelated to anything with guns.

--AOA

Tam said...

"Asia is an entirely different world and culture than ours."

And yet stupidity is a universal constant.

Poking a loaded gun into somebody's chest to demonstrate your kung fu is stupid no matter what you ate for breakfast this morning or what language they say "Ouch!" in.

Anonymous said...

Next, I want to see him do all that and NOT spill a drop of his Bud Light

DirtCrashr said...

I had a barb-wire sticker on my old XR650L dirtbike, it was bitchin!

Ken said...

O what brave new world, where a gaggle of sense offenders can poke fun at a Grammaton Cleric with impunity, cloaked in anonymity.

DaddyBear said...

Facepalm

Nope, that didn't work

Headdesk

Ahh, that's better.

Fudgie Ghost said...

Hey, come on, at least the guy wasn't overweight!

Seriously, AOA has some insightful comments. . . I'm finishing "Stilwell and The American Experience in China". . . I would say they are a bit more indifferent to suffering---in every way---over there, and have been for some time. And by "some time", I mean centuries. . .

docjim505 said...

On the other hand, I suspect that such a (ahem) training environment would make the students VERY aware of trigger discipline.

Devil's advocate: since a "real-world" scenario is likely going to involve grappling or, at least, avoiding same; unusual body positions; and dirty fighting, isn't it reasonable to train that way? To teach students to do something a bit more realistic than leaning around neatly placed barriers to fire a pre-determined number of rounds at non-moving targets that are placed at a comfortable distance away?

NOT devil's advocate: I would not want to train that way, nor would I want to be anywhere near people (other than GENUINE professionals) who did!

Thank you, An Ordinary American, for your comments. Very interesting.

Tam said...

docjim505,

"Devil's advocate: since a "real-world" scenario is likely going to involve grappling or, at least, avoiding same; unusual body positions; and dirty fighting, isn't it reasonable to train that way?"

This is why blue guns, Simunitions, and airsoft exist.

Tam said...

PS:

"To teach students to do something a bit more realistic than leaning around neatly placed barriers to fire a pre-determined number of rounds at non-moving targets that are placed at a comfortable distance away?
"

It's exactly this mistaken conception of what firearms training consists of that fuels the nonsense seen in the video.

The last class I took did not involve firing a single shot standing still. Compare that to the oddball moves at 3:15, where the shooter defeats a gun grab and then, instead of shooting the grabber, holds him with his weak arm while planting squarely engaging a target somewhere downrange SHO, (while the former gun-grabber meekly ceases struggling for some unknown reason.) Seriously, in what real world situation is that even relevant?

Good training includes F.O.F.; bad training includes scripted nonsense like what you see in this video.

harqueb.us said...

I dunno, nothing they were doing seemed dumber than jamming GLOCKS into leather holsters with thumb-break straps without bothering to hold the strap away from the trigger.

Old NFO said...

O.M.G. They are NOT ever going to be on my list of people to take training from... and sooner or later they WILL shoot somebody...

CTone said...

At first I thought his orange-baseplate mags were fake ones that don't hold rounds, then I saw him shooting with them. Yikes.

"and I still have my firearm, which is an impact weapon. . "

Only if you're completely out of rounds. Then, sure. As you pointed out though Tam, I would be demostrating with a $30 blue gun, and not a real one.

Andy said - "That hip throw at the end didn't require the submission hold because the uki was obviously in pain due to the fact that he just landed on all that gear around his belt. O Goshi hurts even on mats. Doing it on hard dirt has gotta be painful."

I learned to do throws on dirt in gear, but I was first taught how to be thrown so I didn't get hurt. Somebody forgot to train his meat-puppet how to be thrown.

Atom Smasher said...

WTF is wrong with these people?

Anonymous said...

here's a video of the same guy at his day job http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFQyib5ZQZY

Firehand said...

"And when it's empty I can use my empty 30-round mag as a stick!"

Well, I'm sure he gets there eventually; I haven't been able to watch the whole thing yet.

og said...

I broke a guys hyoid bone once on accident, and it was ugly. I could do so if I had to do it on purpose, but if I had a gun, I'd like to think it would be unnecesary, because, hey, I got a gun!

The world is full of dorkchops. They breed like lice.

Anonymous said...

I just kept waiting for one guy to say:"hold mah beer, watch this!"

Terry

Anonymous said...

Trust your partner! (But wear body armor while "trusting") What utter BS...

Tam said...

I trust my partner... to not start busting caps while I'm standing down there by the target!

atlharp said...

Trusting your "partner" should be kept in the confines of civil unions. Why is there any question about the absolute fail of this? Differences in culture do not excuse the absolute idiocy described on this video. Seriously there is no excuse for the complete lack of common sense and safety used in this video.

docjim505 said...

Tam - This [realistic training involving grappling, odd positions, etc.] is why blue guns, Simunitions, and airsoft exist.

Excellent point.

Matthew said...

It's not sooo radical.

I mean, at least they're still teaching the "mechanical head swivel then holster" after shooting.

Which gives you another hand to hug the guy who tried to disarm you seconds prior.

=)

Anonymous said...

some of the weirdest stuff I have ever seen. I don't know where to start.....

Pathfinder said...

This falls in with the Yaeger video a couple years back where they had a photographer squatting next to the targets during live fire. Actually, this is worse - shoving a firearm in someone's neck - during training? ? ? With your booger hook on the trigger? ? ? ? ?

Wankers like these are someday going to get someone dead, and the whole industry will take it on the chin. Seems like every tough guy Oakley-wearing operator back from the sandbox (enough cliches?) has started a training school. Shop wisely, folks. If you see this crap, run the other direction.

Matt G said...

The shot that makes Gun Safety Baby Jesus cry is at 5:31, when he's pointed a live gun at his student's head, while a blue gun is in his pocket.

azmountaintroll said...

Rules 34, 35 and 36 as applied to gunporn. Sad but inevitable.

JFP said...

I had no idea there were Splinter Cell LARP'ers out there.

the pawnbroker said...

If there's a downside to record gun sales (I mentioned before that Black Friday was highest NICS count since its inception), it's that the demand for training will make for easy pickin's for both inept and outright nutjob "trainers." Imagine the graduates that will be anxiously looking for an opportunity to put their new "skills" to use...

"Those outtakes are buried in the berm."
Heh. That a quote? ;)

Ambulance Driver said...

"I'm waiting for the first instructor to slap his name on a special syllabus for dual-wielding pistols."

The Kelly Grayson/Reba McEntire Method: It works on graboids, so it oughta handle a meth head just fine.

45er said...

It sure is easy to do all those fancy moves on someone that is so compliant. Wait until a student tries to make a shot like that while restraining someone that is flailing like a greased monkey on acid and tell me how that works out for you.

Former Tech said...

In fairness, and I do have to stretch a bit, he did say something about slide lock just before jabbing his buddy in the neck with a loaded weapon. I guess calling "slide lock" makes it ok, just like when we were kids and could call "no tag backs".

As far as the "waltz" ya got me. Even digging deep I can find nothing to defend there, and it only goes downhill from there.

Trust your buddy? WTF? What kind of moron thought of that? YOU. DON'T. DO. THAT. There are actually people stupid enough to do something like that? I hadn't heard of anything like that short of in a joke about just how stupid someone would have to be to do it. I can't believe I would ever see, even on video, someone doing such a thing for real. I can't even begin to describe the level of stupidity, because it can't get much worse. Maybe standing BEHIND the target, but really.

I can actually say something good about the throw however. At least neither of them were pointing a firearm at anything at that point. It would have been better if all the guns were safely out of reach and where actual adults could control access, but we have to be thankful for even small favors.

Mike said...

Heh, one of the other gems from these brain surgeons has the action sped up part way through so they can look "moar badass!"

Drang said...

The "Trust Your Buddy" drill is probably inspired by reports that the SAS periodically train the the shoot house with members of the royal family downrange.

Anyway. WTF did anyone expect from "G1"? Buncha damned paper-pushing Adjutant General Corps pogues...

Thomas Smith said...

Wow, makes me feel bad ever to have trained in FMA (Inosanto and Leo Gaje schools). And nobody's mentioned yet that jabbing muzzle into the throat of your opponent brings the barrel/slide out of battery, giving your opponent an unnecessary extra chance to use his own super ninja technique to lock the weapon, grab and disarm you, and shoot you with your own weapon. Of course the safety HOLYSHITWHATTHEFUCKINGHELLARETHEYDOING???????!!!! ness of the whole thing sorta dwarfs that but still.

seems we spent 15-20 minutes after a seminar once going over some stuff, but it was kept to simple. Strip away the offending hand and shoot back, also how to keep hold of your gun while others are trying to grab it. we used the even safer "index finger and thumb gun"

WV subuslik: the lube you use to make sure it's easy to remove your gun from a mall ninja's butt while training this way.

Johnnyreb™ said...

What ... no pistol bayonet !!

Anonymous said...

I blame the Russians: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZThYjiUJ8w

jf

God, Gals, Guns, Grub said...

"Your gun is still an impact weapon"... uh... duh... except my impact is going to come from the bullet, not the muzzle being intermittently thrust in to my opponents throat opposite my flashlight...

Dann in Ohio

J.R.Shirley said...

Wow. I'm a martial artist, but I literally could not watch most of this.

"O what brave new world, where a gaggle of sense offenders can poke fun at a Grammaton Cleric with impunity, cloaked in anonymity."

Nice, Ken. :-)

Mikael said...

Awww... they disabled comments. Not that I'm terribly surprised, the comments were universally negative.

Windy Wilson said...

"I'm waiting for the first instructor to slap his name on a special syllabus for dual-wielding pistols."

There's always Castor Troy. . .