There's a
thread going on at Pistol-Forums.com about bad advice people have received as beginning shooters. From there, I found this gem of a link, regarding the Hi-Point carbine:
I served for 21 years in Air Force Intelligence and have carried a few weapons in that time and nothing has felt so well to shoot as this Carbine it is just a great weapon.
Wow. Where to start?
- Firstly, while I thank you for your service, sir, I would have to point out that it is difficult to imagine a military career path involving less contact with firearms that doesn't require the service member to be ordained or hold a medical degree. This is going to color the weight I attach to your recommendations.
- Secondly, if you display your Hi-Point carbine in a mail-order vertical sword stand intended for showing off pawnshop katanas lovingly machined from a single layer of 440C in the time-honored traditions of Pakistani sweatshops, it really really distracts me from anything you were saying, much the same way having "I'm a big ol' dork!" tattooed across your forehead would.
31 comments:
Tam,
You need to start giving us a warning before a major SNARK attack, I am tired of cleaning spewed coffee off of my keyboard!
Somebody dumped a bunch of harsh all over my cereal! :)
Oh, that's good...well done.
damn and i was about to order one for my high speed low drag tactical 1911 carbine . ahh well :D
WV; chodfker nope not going there
Sorry Tam but the US Navy Reserve wins the prize as the least likely to ever see a boom stick.
The secret squirrels I worked with had never had any weapons training in thier entire careers. One was a O-6, the other two were O-4s. All of them ended up in Bahrain or Yemen at one point over the last 10 years.
At least the Air Dudes shot .22 rifles to qualifiy.
Gerry
Gerry,
"Sorry Tam but the US Navy Reserve wins the prize as the least likely to ever see a boom stick."
"The Naval Reserve: America's 17th line of defense, between the Mississippi National Guard, and the American League of Women Voters." -The Simpsons
:D
Sniff! The reason the Naval Reserve doesn't engage in Firearms Training is the fact that we have Marines to do the "Grunt" work for us. Oh dear! My Earl Grey has gone cold! Excuse me why I flog the Philippino Mess Specialist. ; )
A better illustration of "preference is heterogeneous" would be hard to find. Menger is smiling in Valhalla.
Of course, one could also suggest the gentleman try an M1 carbine and maybe one or two others, but that's an entirely 'nother conversation.
My own carbine experience is pretty limited: Mosin-Nagant M38, Saiga .308, and I forget which .45LC lever-action. I'd be pleased to own any of 'em.
while it IS possible that either an Air Force Intel person or a Naval Reservist might actually have some cred vis-a-vis weapons, those I have known wouldn't cite their service as the basis of credibility.
As for carbines (since in my own service the fact of someone of my relative seniority - in some settings - actually carrying a long gun in addition to a sidearm was usually remarked on) I think of the M4 as a pretty good example. It's certainly not as aesthetically pleasing as the M1 series but it'll usually serve the folks that carbines are intended for; pogues whose primary job is NOT to engage the bad people. When those folks actually HAVE to shoot, it is by definition a BAD THING
Sorry, but this old retired airdale Senior Chief can't get past the phrase "Air Force Intelligence" without breaking into a giggling fit.
Was anything else he had to say worthwhile?
You aren't going to believe this, but I'm related (by two marriages)to the doofus who posted that quote and the pics. When I saw his mug in the pic I lost it. He is not a Captain as the bars in the pic would indicate, but by now is probably an E7 or E8.
He also attends renaissance fairs dressed in velvet and chainmail and on his off days wears a t-shirt that reads "Crossbowman do it longer."
Devynsdad,
This is my shocked face. -> :|
Does it shoot well or feel good?
I have a Hi-Point carbine. It feels like the crude chunk of cheapness it is. It does go bang every time I pull the gravely trigger and I am far more accurate with it than any pistol. But you will never see a photo of me posing with the Hi-Point.
Bram said it for me. I do own one, it's never failed to go bang, and it's pretty accurate for what it is. It's fun to shoot, and I've let a lot of new shooters play with it (once they were done with the .22's for a while) without worrying about them hurting it or blowing through a lot of expensive ammo.
But dude, it's still a HiPoint. I wouldn't show it off any more than I would a Charco revolver.
Oops. My reading comprehension obviously sucks today.
When I started shooting the people who helped me were active or retired military with a few competitive shooters thrown in as well. I encountered my share of arm chair commando’s but also spent a lot of money on gun magazines and manuals, aside from NRA or such training was pretty basic. Now flash forward a few decades and training school’s as well as Basic Handgun Carry courses are everywhere. But you still have to use some basic common sense to find out who’s who and what’s a scam. I’ve done enough investigation’s and research to know how to run a background on a trainer through open source mean’s, all of you should as well, in fact Tam has discussed this before.
Now as to the Hi-Point Arm’s carbine and pistol’s: These things have a huge cult following of adherent admirers; I’m not one of them. However, they have a life time warranty and their weakest link has mostly been magazines during the most recent years. That they are dog ugly, clunky and heavy is a given, but what do you expect from a blow back firearm? The carbines are actually rather fun to shoot and make nice plinker’s with the 9mm and 45 not being all that bad. The C9 9mm pistol does pretty good as well and I’ve pulled more than a few of these and the 380 ACP variant out of vehicles and crime scenes, covered in rust and bone dry that still functioned. So no, I may not like them much but I kind of admire the fact that something so ugly and cheap looking actually works. What the hell has the firearms world come to?
Spent 10 years in AF Intel and had a very deep association with weapons, ranging from multi-hundred pound to megaton sized warheads.
(BGM-109C TLAM being my favorite. Yes, I know, USN, but I was a Purple Suiter at the time).
Individual, non-crew served? Pretty much what I picked up on my own hanging around the rod and gun club, off-base shooting ranges and associated bad companions (i.e. grunts and jarheads).
Priceless, Tam.
Not a fan of Hi-Point; never owned one, but I have shot a few.
Remember, the Kalashnikov wasn't very pretty or elegant, either, but it has survived and become a standard because of one thing: it works no matter what abuse you throw at it.
If a Hi-Point works, dry & rusty, well then . . .
Ouch, Tam, you make shooting fish in a barrel look so easy that it makes me feel sorry for the fish.
That said, to pile on to Sport Pilot's comment about, "I kind of admire the fact that something so ugly and cheap looking actually works," - I could say the same thing about the AK-47. I don't think that even it's most ardent admirers would claim that it could win a beauty contest, and yet I'm sure we'd all be happy to have one given to us.
I think James at Hell in a Handbasket mentioned a number of his students getting the Hi Point carbine: they had health/physical problems that made handling handguns difficult, but that carbine worked well for them.
Ugly, but functional
Sport Pilot: You really needed to put a comma after the word "shooting" in the first sentence.
Without that comma, the sentence is pretty scary.
At Gun Blogger Rendezvous IV the local gun smith, who was providing FFL services, got up and sang the praises of the modern stench gun, AKA the Hipoint Carbine. I think we were all a pretty open-minded bunch, and would not have argued the point (!) that Hipoints are absolutely reliable hunks of ugliness. When he added "Unlike that POS the M1911 pistol", you could say he got a lot of feedback...
Not defending the Hi-Point comment, but....
In my former life, my AFSC classified me as AF Intel, and I spent most of my time freezing my ass off with a bunch of guys who grew beards and killed terrorists for a living.
I qualified on everything from an M9 up to an M240B and Mk 19. I even got to play with a G36 when we visited the Germans.
The joys of being an Individual Augmentee!
Kris...I see your point...you'll have to pardon me...having inner ear and vertigo issue's this week...I've already set aside some course work until it clear's up.
"... felt so well to shoot..." could be true, as the carbine is heavy and shouldn't kick too much. I've never shot a Hi-Point, so I am merely speculating.
I spent today shooting a Yugoslav TT33, an Romy G AK, a Ruger single 6 in .22, and a S&W M&P15. The .22 Ruger was the most fun to shoot, but that doesn't make it a "great weapon."
Firehand,
The carbines do seem to be crude but functional.
They are, however, a far cry from "nothing has felt so well to shoot" or a "great weapon".
People talk about "goes bang every time" like it's a supreme virtue, rather than just the baseline. ;)
At $199, I was happy with the baseline.
Count me surprised that the Pakistanis have upgraded to 440C. I could have sworn that the last Pakistani POS I wasted three dollars on was made of either 420J2 steel, or pot metal. The box said 420J2, but I suspect the latter, given its absolute inability to take the sort of edge that I'd consider acceptable for a letter opener.
As a retired navy enlisted guy who got to shoot Uncle Sam's ammo ONCE in 24 years, I'll agree that we're the worst service for knowing shooty stuff. This is a good thing - ship interiors and especially enginerooms define 'unintended consequences'.
I do thank you for the reminder to avoid Hi-Point, and the snark lightened my day!
Had to add my two cents' worth.
First, what Bubblehead Les said. (Ooo-rah.)
Second, I was about to make some comment about this buttclown having 21 years in and only making O-3, but Devynsdad cut me off at the knees - and that's fine. Gave me a good laugh.
FWIW, I've never fired the Hi-Point, but I do know a young man who has one. He bought it for the sexy factor. It performs well in this regard. I'll stick to my Garand and/or the Bushmaster AR, thanks.
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