Friday, December 21, 2012

Oh. My. Gawd.

That presser was an unmitigated disaster.

(In case any of you little spree killers were watching that, "Natural Born Killers" was a movie by an old guy named 'Oliver Stone'. Your parents watched it when they were dating and called each other "Mickey" and "Mallory" for the next couple days, until their friends started rolling their eyes.)

87 comments:

Matt W said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Tam said...

Yup.

So distraught I hit "publish" before adding any, you know, content.

Matt W said...

I totally agree. Rambling. Code Pink. Evil Media Outlets. The only actual content worth keeping (other than the heart felt reaction to the shooting last week) was the program they are creating, to take away the focus from AWBs etc..., and then to announce Asa Hutchinson's role. I can't believe it lasted over 30 minutes!

BGMiller said...

Sorry, I was out chipping the global warmening off my driveway.

What'd I miss?


BGM

instinct said...

Not a whole lot. Some poo flinging toward the media and video games.

Tam said...

BGMiller,

"What'd I miss?"

A trainwreck.

You ever seen Colbert spoof the way he thinks fuddy-duddy stiff old white guys view the world? Pretty much that.

Jake (formerly Riposte3) said...

Yeah. Spectacularly unimpressive, at a minimum.

Jacob said...

Their "blame the media" mantra is the same sort of crap Tipper Gore tried in the 80s against Twister Sister.

Tam said...

They're going to be torn apart tonight.

Leno's writers all popped simultaneous chubbies...

Tasso said...

Armed guards, Wayne? Seriously? You couldn't think of anything better than TSA for Tots?

How about evacuation drills?

Jake (formerly Riposte3) said...

Note to self: do not read Tam's comments with a mouthful of beverage.

Kristophr said...

Ermm ... who did this? I was asleep.

Kristophr said...

Oh dear god ... is he sticking his fingers in his eyes to force tears out?

Maybe he should study some of the NORK mourners of lil' Kim? When the alternative is the Gulag, you can mourn up a storm.

At least the Romans had the sense to hire professional mourners to do their wailing for them.

Tam said...

Kristophr,

Wayne LaPierre went out and demonstrated Poe's Law by proving that you can't tell the difference between Wayne LaPierre and Stephen Colbert mocking Wayne LaPierre's positions.

I spent the first ten minutes giving the screen that "Not sure if serious or trolling" look.

Kristophr said...

Yea, I think he's going to go far an executive order "solution".

Expect crap like redefining self-loading rifles as potential MGs, or misuse of the KTW pistol ammo ban to apply to any FMJ round that can fit in a TC pistol.

Jennifer said...

Wow. Look at that. There's a head shaped dent in my wall. How'd that get there? Hmm. And the room looks remarkably starry. Whee!

Alan said...

Holy crap, TSA for TOTS!

I'm stealing that.

TheSev said...

Great freedom organization ya got there Wayne.

The answer is more big Gov't programs to solve a problem easily taken care of by the citizens.

Matt W said...

The whole purpose of this Model Schools After Prisons program is to try and move the discussion away from gun control to something else. Does it just restrict liberty in some other way? Well yeah, but we won't have any gun bans right? Ugh, now my mouth feels dirty...

Yrro said...

So... two questions

1) What's your favorite non-NRA gun rights lobbying organization I can go become a member of?

2) What can we do to let NRA leadership publicly know that that response was a bunch idiotic bullshit we don't agree with?

Anonymous said...

I think what we just saw was in chapter 2 of one of Matt Bracken's novels.

Tam said...

1) I'm sending money to the SAF right now.

2) I will upgrade my membership if the NRA ashcans Wayne.

Anonymous said...

Do we think there would have been a message that wouldn't have been ridiculed and ripped apart?

leBolide said...

I would be shocked -- SHOCKED! -- if Wayne ever figured out the difference between "pro-gun" and "republican."

Tam said...

Anon 12:30,

"Do we think there would have been a message that wouldn't have been ridiculed and ripped apart?"

Dude, this isn't Democratic Underground. These are a bunch of wookie-suited Libertarians and conservative gun nuts.

If WE can see the flaws in this argument and the stumbling, halting, awkward way it was presented, what do you think it looks like to the OTHER side?

Standin' by your man ain't doin' him no favors when what he needs is a rehab clinic.

Anonymous said...

Oh don't get me wrong, I agree that their message was screwed, then only way they could have made it worse would have been to yell "Get off my lawn you kids", I'm just can't imagine what they could have said that wouldn't have been ripped apart.

My only consolation is that they didn't cave in, yet.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Tam,

I have noticed that the progression over time has been:

1) The National Rifle Association
2) The NRA with Wayne LaPierre
3) Wayne LaPierre and the NRA
4) Wayne LaPierre, Chris Cox and the NRA

It does not take days of preparation to do a bad press conference.

I think it's time for a change and I don't mean from Wayne to Chris.

Gerry

Joseph said...

At least if Wayne would have had something coherent and decent to say we could have just scorned and laughed at the Anti-rights idiots. No, now they will just be spot on.

THIS is why I didn't send any money to the NRA before this presser.

Fuzzy Curmudgeon said...

I heard this on the noon news and couldn't believe my ears.

I just joined the SAF. My NRA membership expires next November, and I think I'm going ditto Tam's #2, above. I don't see the point in paying them more money only to watch LaPierre make a fool of himself.

Scott J said...

Didn't waste time on the presser since I knew it was going to be peeing into a hurricane.

A caller to Glenn Beck's fill in said CNN went to commercial 10 seconds after it started.

Tammy said...

I think the "repeal the Gun Free School Zones thing" idea was solid, but the rest of the press conference? Not so impressed.

I'm sending a check to the SAF today.

Fuzzy Curmudgeon said...

Rush is running bites from it now and seems to think it's great. *sigh*

Kristophr said...

OK, I thought you were talking about Obama's presser ... the man was actually poking himself in the eye in order to have tears.

Poor performance from Wayne does not surprise me either.

We ain't going to be able to get rid of him ... he had the rules changed after the last attempt to depose him to require a supermajority to do it. He'll be ruling that org until he dies.

Bubblehead Les. said...

Time for Trip Down Memory Lane. Wasn't it LaPierre's "Jack-Booted Thug" comment about Ruby Ridge that solidified Bush the Elder's Anti-Gun Executive Order back about 20 years ago? And didn't that help Clinton get HIS Bans through Congress?

So. 20 years later, La Pierre comes out and says "It's The Media's Fault! It's the Video Games fault! We need to take all the Mall Ninjas and hire them to Guard P.S. 173!"

God, I wish Larry Corria was running the NRA.

Support the Second Amendment Foundation. At least with the Two Alans, you KNOW they can Win.

One Final Thing: So how many Congress Critters are now thinking "I'm supposed to be Scared of the NRA!? Horse Manure!"

Thomas Smith said...

He admittedly should have at least taken the tack that limiting the rights of 60 million people to punish one already dead man was senseless, and that anyone taking the time to destroy the drive on his PC ( or in the previous case wiring his apartment with bombs) and murder his mom to get weapons was unlikely to be stopped by mere rules.

I'm also with the above commenter who says that whatever Wayne said was guaranteed to be used as laugh track fodder no matter what.

RevolverRob said...

That press conference was awful. The longer I read the transcript, the angrier I got. The more I realized that the NRA's vision seems to be profits and not protection of rights. Jesus...an ACLU press conference writer could have put something together that was more positive than that floating turd in the punch bowl.

I have not renewed my NRA membership for several years for a reason. I keep my Texas State Rifle Association membership active and now I'm off to donate dollars to the Second Amendment Foundation, and drop a line to the NRA letting them know to 'can Wayne and his group of thinly veiled profiteers, and I'll consider putting my money back in their organization.

-Rob

taylor said...

So I never saw the video of the NRA press conference, but I read the full text transcript.

Im trying to figure out what everyone is so peeved about. The main points Wayne LaPierre made that I took away were:
- The only thing that stops an armed bad guy is an armed good guy
- We need to put armed security in our schools immediately before we have some national debate on guns
- This armed security can and should take many forms including: active/retired police, active/reserve/retired military, trained security, and trained citizenry
- The NRA is going to self-fund an effort to provide any training needed as well as (what I understood to be) threat assessments and hardening recommendations for schools

What did I miss that was so bad? I get that delivery matters, but I was always a substance over style kind of guy.

I understand that people dont want our kids going to Fort Little Tyke Elementary School and Prison, but that was not what I understood his message to be.

Matt W said...

Some recent headlines from news outlets:

"NRA's solutions show Americans the true face of gun culture" Globe and Mail

"NRA to America: Blame yourself, not us" Baltimore Sun

"Security guards in school: Students feel less safe, unclear effect on crime" Washington Post

"NRA blames video games like 'Kindergarten Killer' for Sandy Hook Elementary ..." NYDN

"Newtown on NRA speech: 'Completely off the mark'" USA Today

You can see the trend, which I think anyone, even Wayne's crew, should have been able to predict. I've not become a member of the SAF yet, but I think that needs to change.

Tam said...

taylor,

The transcript didn't get all puffily indignant at the wrong times, seem flustered into silence after hecklers, and then stumble in a halting monotone with occasional attempts at showing some affect through the "solutions" part.

The first few minutes were giving me flashbacks to Tipper Gore, before he even got to the Department of Education branch of the TSA. :(

RevolverRob said...

Taylor,

Your second point "- We need to put armed security in our schools immediately before we have some national debate on guns" is part of the problem. The NRA does not dictate when we have a national debate on guns, that debate is occurring as we speak. It shows a cognitive disconnect between what is going on right now and what the NRA envisions is going on.

Further, there were little gems in that press conference. First, the blaming of video games and violent media for crime. Violent media commits just as many crimes as guns in a gun safe do. It's an attempt to distract from the real problem at home, a lack of personal responsibility. Since I consider myself a responsible citizen, who is quite young, and grew up watching violent media and playing Grand Theft Auto, and I have not turned into a psychopathic active shooter, I find those attempts to displace blame disingenuous and disturbing.

Finally, the NRA proposes placing more security in a school. We've already seen the incompetency of the TSA daily. How long before we have back scatter X-rays at the doors of our schools. How long before a bunch of people who have been fired from McDonald's for incompetency are the ones being the "front line of defense" for your children? And let's not forget the general idea of simply sacrificing our children's 5th Amendment rights to go to school. No, thank you, I like my 5th Amendment along with my 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and the rest.

The NRA's proposal is no solution and more importantly, their message is clear, "We do not have a clue what is going on." And as the premier spokesgroup for a body of people who are, right now, under legislative attack, that is not reasonable.

-Rob

taylor said...

Matt-
And I care what some liberal rag says why? Many of those papers would have found a way to smear the NRA even up to the point of LaPierre calling for confiscation ("NRA attempts to save face in wake of massacre").

I took his remarks to be not to the media or to the government, but to the people who's children are affected. As far as I can see, he attempted to put forward the best solution the NRA is capable of doing single handedly.

Tam-
Yeah, delivery does matter in public, and I can imagine it must have been pretty bad to get such a negative response here.

Still, I didnt take his recommendation for cops in schools to mean TSA style kabuki, but rather actual armed security (immediately in the form of current police, but changing as other resources are brought on line), which would have a real effect in making our children safer.

Tam said...

RevolverRob,

Send them your resume; they are sorely in need of smart people right now.

I wish I was kidding. :o

David Avera said...

I didn't see the press conference but I read the statement. I agree with the need for an armed presence in schools but that should be members of the staff who are sufficiently motivated to get any necessary training and a CCW license/permit.
As for blaming video games, that just proved that the NRA can also point at things that are irrelevant toward addressing the issue.

Anonymous said...

A friend from the media in NYC sent me this:


Exact quote from #NRApresser: "This is the beginning of a serious conversation. We won't be taking any questions."”

You can make this stuff up to sound more silly. He said the armed security folks added to the comedy.

Gerry

Matt W said...

Because that is who he needs to carry the NRA message to the public. The vast majority of the public see those headlines, they will NOT see the transcripts, the actual presser, or the few number of positive articles.

At some point to have to play the game, Wayne did not. He chose to piss off the people who will carry that message to the general public. Very poor PR move.

Anonymous said...

I have to agree with an earlier poster: the press is out to crucify the NRA, no matter what. Wayne did not tuck tail and beg forgiveness for existing, so the press is fit to be tied. What else is new?

FWIW, that presser was for one audience and one audience only: the politicians. Wayne just shot across their bow: we will not accept any more gun control, and if you vote for it, you're toast. NRA's got some of the best lobbyists in the business; GOA can't even get in the door.

Of course, you can always count on gun owners to piss in their own cornflakes. Because Wayne failed to please the rabidly anti-gun press, and the press is saying mean things about us gun owners, we're gonna tuck tail and hide. Pathetic.

NRA is holding the line, which is the best that can be accomplished in the current hysterical climate. I'd be worried if Wayne was receiving accolades from the press.



Matt W said...

Anon #...?

That's totally what we are saying. "Wayne didn't do a good job because the media is being MEAN! WAAAH!" Wow.. I really don't know how to respond to you on that, other than to say your reading and comprehension appears to be just as pathetic.

Did you watch the presser? I'm guessing no. Here is one way he would probably have been more effective using the NRA's strengths:

1. We are truly shocked and saddened by the tragic events last week.....
2. We are going to take immediate action and leverage our history of excellent training programs to create the School Shield program
3. We have selected Asa Hutchinson to lead this program...take it over Asa
4. Asa "blah blah" (he actually did a decent job)

In all of the discussion above I don't see any "tucking tail" or "hiding".

RevolverRob said...

Tam,

Thanks for the compliment. If I wasn't in the middle of this whole academic science career thing, I'd consider it.

Maybe I should polish up the CV and send it to SAF instead. Independent, academic, young, pro-liberty, pro-gun, scientist...I often think I could do more.

-Rob

Turk Turon said...

I also read the transcript but didn't see or hear the presser and I had the same impression as Taylor: nice statement.

Like the Kennedy-Nixon debate where TV viewers gave the nod to JFK and the radio listeners said that Nixon won?

I'm an NRA Lifer and an SAF Lifer, but lately the SAF has had a string of spectacular victories.

But an army needs artillery, and NRA has it.

Geodkyt said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Geodkyt said...

Bubblehead Les. said...
Time for Trip Down Memory Lane. Wasn't it LaPierre's "Jack-Booted Thug" comment about Ruby Ridge. . .



No, I do believe that was Larry Pratt of the "No Compromise" organization called Gun Owners of America.

You know, the group that lambastes the NRA at every turn, claims the credit for any improvement in gun laws, and yet has done NOTHNG substantial to further gun rights in any measureable fashion.

Wayne LaPierre was running around pooper-scooping behind Pratt on that one, if my aging memory serves me right.

Geodkyt said...

There's a reason I dropped my support of GOA twenty years ago.

they were not only wholly ineffective, they were counterproductive.

Anonymous said...

Matt W,

I don't expect the media give the NRA a fair shake. I just expect the NRA guru not to come off like a character from Comedy Central.

Reading a transcript and watching a video are two separate events. People are visual and watching this was painful for somebody who was sent several courses to deal with hostile press.

That's why Reagan and Heston could convey their message and why IMHO LaPiere comes across as a pompous ass to folks who aren’t part of the firearm culture. 80,000,000 gun owners need to convince 240,000,000 other folks we’re not the problem. The NRA speaks for 4-5 million, 1 out of 20 gun owners.

And Matt W, the media guy is a gun owner and shooter. He's got no ax to grind and made a professional observation.

Gerry

Matt W said...

Thanks Gerry,

I completely agree that the transcript and the actual video of the presser are different beasts, that's what this conversation has been about. And I also don't expect the media to give the NRA a fair shake, but by holding a presser the way Wayne did, it just feeds the fire.

And if you are referring to the anonymous poster I replied to, I do take exception to referring to gun owners as pathetic and tucking tail and hiding when I don't see anyone in this thread, nor anyone I know personally, doing so. Maybe I am misinterpreting his "pathetic" comments, but it sure sounds like he is criticizing some, and me in particular, for disagreeing with the quality of the NRA's statement today.

Anonymous said...

No problems Matt W.

Gerry

Critter said...

Oh I dunno. The "press" hated the speech, so it couldn't have been completely worthless.

Scott J said...

On the jack booted thugs comment. My recollection is that LaPierre said it after Waco, the press crucified him, he backed down and hasn't had a spine since.

Greg in Allston said...

So, the odds of a high body count school shooting are pretty close to zero. Adding a well trained, armed presence in the school would bring the odds even closer to zero. This is a bad thing, how, exactly? I'm all ears, let's hear some ideas and alternatives.

Sure, LaPierre's presentation left a great deal to be desired and the optics were pretty bad. He's no Heston and that's too bad. Still, I think that it probably resonated with a lot more people than you may be giving credit for. Maybe they should have had Uncle Ted write the copy and take the mike. That would have been memorable.

I'm with taylor on this one.

Tam said...

Greg,

It would have been better if he hadn't rambled on about Mortal Kombat and Natural Born Killers and hurricanes for half his speech before he got there.

I don't really have a problem with school cops, we had one in my H.S., but the last thing we need to do is federalize them.

Rova said...

I'm a GOA Life Member since the days of Tanya Metaksa's timidity "What if we lose?" SAF has been receiving spare dollars from a small discretionary fund ever since Heller went to the Supreme Court.

Agreed, Tam; Federalizing school cops is way wrong - "Gun Free Zones" mentality has got to go and NRA's talking head blew chunks for most of his speech IMO.

Alternatives? Check out Larry Correia's post over on Monster Hunters. Mas Ayoob brought up the right stuff in his usual way, too.

This ain't rocket engineering.

Greg in Allston said...

Tam, I agree on both of your points above. The whole bit about vids and games could be brought up at another time, nor was it particularly germane to the more fundamental matters at hand. Save the harping on social pathology for another time and venue. Likewise, I'm glad that he didn't come out with web gear, a couple of bandos of 30 rounders and an A2 with an M9 raised over his head. Although, admit it, that would have been pretty cool, right?

Federalization, two by two, hands of blue, minimum wage/minimum trained security guards, all that other rot is not the right approach either. We were a country founded on self reliance, entrepreneurship and experimentation. I think that we all agree that this gun free zone shit has got to stop. Let's experiment on the local level. TX, TN and a couple of other states are looking at just that. Paid or volunteer LEOs, retired (but fit) LEOs/ex-mil, National Guard/Fire/EMS with proper training, other well screened and trained volunteers down the road when the NRA's proposed program gets settled and tweaked. I like the idea, it has merit, it may work well, and it can help to change the perception and the culture.

We all know that we can't Nerf the world but at the same time there are very real existential threats out there. It's not hard to feature a bunch of young, jihadi wannabes from Dearborn or Jersey City deciding that the Newtown guy was onto something. Cheap, easy and a straight shot to Allah. Pick your scenario, our kids are sitting ducks and the way the press salivates over this stuff 24/7, more than a few unhinged folks may be getting bad ideas on how to seek fame and glory.

Everybody, on both sides, are way too amped up right now. People need to chill the hell out and start thinking with their heads and not their emotions. I've been following this very closely for the whole week and I have to say that I'm psychically exhausted. The antis see this as their American Dunblane and are ghoulishly playing it to the hilt. We seem to be loosing our shit pretty well too.

Politics works slowly (usually, yeah, I know, Patriot Act, TSA, etc.) but I don't think anything is going to come down before the temperature drops a good bit and the fog and haze clears. Still, we must all hang together for surely we will all hang separately otherwise.

TJIC said...

I'm not sure I believe it, but here's a Devil's Advocate argument:

the NRA might have been tempted to INTENTIONALLY create a stupid trainwreck stunt, so that for a few days the national conversation (tm) is diverted to how the NRA is stupid.

...as opposed to evil.

...and while that debate is going on, it's dissipating some of the emotional energy.

There's a two month period after each shooting spree when national attention is drawn to it. Arguably, the good guys merely need to run out the clock. We're sort of lucky that Christmas is coming up next week. The more energy we can suck out of the debate for the next 7 weeks, the better.

I'm probably giving them too much credit, though.

Tam said...

TJIC,

I am going to pretend that's what happened, purely in the interest of my digestive health. :D

Anonymous said...

To paraphrase everyone's grandmother,
"If you can't think of something to say that isn't lame, inane, creepy, counterproductive, and Dada-esque, don't say anything at all."

Alath
Carmel IN

Greg in Allston said...

Anonymous at 6:44, my Grandma used to say the very same thing.

Joe in PNG said...

In these situations, there's a lot to be said for the classic lawyer penned dull press release read in a stilted, lifeless manner.

Anonymous said...

I think it may be time to wonder if Wayne LaPierre is actually working for the other side.

Could anybody be more tone deaf, less competent, and inept, who wasn't actually trying?

Anonymous said...

Trying to make sense out of all this as I did not see it. My take is that no one, not even the gunnies here, is going to take the NRA seriously about video games, movies or mental health and they know it. It was distraction to get people talking about other stuff. As for style points, spending 5 minutes on their web page should tell you this. However, people do take them seriously about guns and security and politics. Like them or hate them, people do take them seriously. Thus I see the core of the message as cops in schools and an end to gun free zones. (I don't worry about federalizing the cops because that train has already left. Where do you thing the funding for the existing school resource officers came from.) Put the two together with budget problems and it could open the door to armed school staff, the real first responders. That is down the road but remember how incremental CCW reform was. State by state and then gradual improvement of the rules.

I am by no means an NRA loyalist. I am a long term member and send money to the ILA but was planning on going over to the SAF because I was so hacked off about them endorsing a gun controller for President. Since they have apparently decided to fight, that is feeling like desertion in the face of the enemy. I think what I will do is re-up my membership and send the ILA money to the SAF and wait and see.

Justthisguy said...

I always liked Neil Knox better than that sleazy equivocating politican LaPierre.

I have exchanged email with his son, Jeff Knox, comparing our different kinds of neural divergence. Yup, he's one, too.

Mr. LaPierre is such an annoyingly normal neurotypical politician that, well, I can't really take him seriously anymore.

Knox had principles, and stuck to them.

rickn8or said...

A-mazing. I can always spot mistakes fourteen microseconds after hitting "publish" but not minutes before.
A-hem.
"2) What can we do to let NRA leadership publicly know that that response was a bunch idiotic bullshit we don't agree with?"

Never mind the NRA leadership, how about the general public?

But I do agree that "armed school staff" makes more sense than "Gun Free Zones."

Does the average cop rolling up on a call from the school know the layout of the buildings? Entrances and exits? Who's supposed and not supposed to be there? The only people that know this are the people that are there every day.

And how can we guard money, buildings etc. with guns but not our children? "The Most Precious Thing We Have" and we try to isolate them into a sterile environment in the middle of a cesspool and then disable the immune system? How could anyone think that Gun Free Zones could work without ANY tools (pepper spray, Tazer, SOMETHING) so that teachers don't have to run against a nutcase with a rifle bare-handed? (And bless them 'cause they DID!)

Can you tell who is the grumpy grandpa with the elementary school-aged grandkids?

Anonymous said...

That can be arranged. Hypothetically, of course. As a thought experiment. lol. J/K. cough.

Noah D said...

Sigh. So my local school district, Zionsville, has new 'security' procedures. The front doors are no longer unlocked from the outside. To get in, you have to call the front office and wait for them to come open it for you.

Like someone said, it's what you do, instead of something.

(Because once they open the door, there's still no-one to stop the gunman. And all they have to say is, 'I've got something to drop off for my kid.' And the doors? Mostly glass.)

Robert Fowler said...

TSA for Tot. Damn.

Think of Gecko45 leading a bunch of wal-mart greeter rejects.

I would however, volunteer my time to patrol on of the local schools. Being retired I have plenty of time.

Dan Crenshaw said...

Egads how I loathe LaPierre! He is the main reason I never joined the NRA until it was required in order for me to become a member of the range I now use. Dude screams slimy and his scare tactic robo call phone messages to drum up donations just confirm it. But he has at times been a decent orator; this was not one of those times.

SERIOUSLY DUDE, your gonna use your time on the mic now to blame 25 year old movies and video games! I mean that wont make you look like a disconnected asshat or anything.

Now the core program as described does sound like a whole lot more than anyone else is doing. Putting their resources into training volunteers and offering a comprehensive program free to all schools who want it whether they use the armed guard part or not is probably the best thing I have seen brought forward other than allowing teachers to ccw if they want and that can dovetail into this nicely.


and on a side note tam, can you enable gravatar? because I run wordpress on my own domain name it doesnt give me and open ID

The Old Coach said...

I'm old enough to remember when mass murder of civilians was so absent from the media mainstream that it would never have crossed our minds, no matter how pissed off we might have been over some slight by a teacher or whomever. LaPierre isn't wrong about that.

I knew a crack criminal defense attorney a few years ago, and in conversations with him I began to realize that a trial is essentially THEATER. Facts are secondary. And there's where the NRA has a BIG problem. As long as we had Charlton Heston, we had a chance, but old Wayne is about as well fitted for the role he needs to play as Don Knotts would be to play Winston Churchill. High pitched voice, no animation, no fire, no nothing. I could go on...

OldTexan said...

What a deal, my son and sons-in-law are gun guys and in their 30's and 40's and they hear from a different perspective than an old guy in his late 60's. What I think might sound reasonable, kind of goofy but reasonable they hear as just plain stupid.

The gun ranges finally have a lot of young people from all ethnic backgrounds burning up ammo and developing skills and our NRA President makes a speech that is directed at old fat guys like me over 60 years old and he missed on that.

With the money the NRA has they need some good PR folks and new leadership since they came up to bat in the big game and struck out. So sorry but we needed solid hitting and they whiffed it.

Nuff Said!

Firehand said...

That comment on the ATF wasn't said by LaPierre; it was said by Rep. Dingell- a Democrat- on the floor of the house. Actually had a couple of things to say:
"The consequences of the behavior of the BATF in these kinds of cases is that they are not trusted. They are detested, and I have described them properly as jackbooted American fascists. They have shown no concern over the rights of ordinary citizens or their property. They intrude without the slightest regard or concern.

Now, if you want a more recent event, take a look at what they did in Waco, TX. Is that a defensible event? Scores of Americans were killed because of ineptitude by BATF acting under legal process, as they said, and that whole matter is going to be suppressed after scores of Americans have been killed because of the ineptitude and crass misbehavior of the BATF."

and he also called ATF "... [a] jack-booted group of fascists who are perhaps as large a danger to American society as I could pick today."
The NRA quoted him in that letter, and has been blamed since for 'saying' it. The people bitching and whining don't want to mention- or don't know- who the letter quoted.

Ted N said...

On the good side, I finally joined SAF.

Anonymous said...

One of the depressing constants about this conversation is that we can always rely on pro-gun people to shoot at each other whenever there's a crisis.

Meanwhile... http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/12/21/this-post-is-going-to-be-very-confusing-to-some-people/

Tam said...

Anonymouse 1:46,

"One of the depressing constants about this conversation is that we can always rely on pro-gun people to shoot at each other."

So, now a performance review is "shooting at each other"?

I am damned glad I don't work where you do!

"No criticism of the leader! Just shut up and get out your checkbook! Whatever damn fool play he makes, you'd better not criticize it or you're a traitor!"

Screw that.

Tam said...

As a matter of fact, I just went and threw more money in the jar so I can vent even harder:

"Dammit, if you waste this money on sending Wayne out there again looking like a stroke victim whose dog ate his homework, we're going to keep going by one and two years.

Fire Wayne and find somebody who can deliver a speech that sounds like it was written in this century and I'll consider going Life. Until then, the difference goes to the SAF, because I'll need them to un-fuck your gaffes in court."

thesouthtexaspistolero said...

Wasn't it LaPierre's "Jack-Booted Thug" comment about Ruby Ridge that solidified Bush the Elder's Anti-Gun Executive Order back about 20 years ago?

No. If I am reading this right, Bush the Elder had ALWAYS been anti-gun and only pandered to gun owners before the election to help his career.

Sort of like Mitt Romney.

Anonymous said...

Tam,

Excellent. That's what we should say to the NRA. And keep saying it.

But in public, would it be so hard to either ignore them or back their play? Because, you know, there are already plenty of people to criticize every single person on the pro-rights side of the conversation, and especially the eeevvvil NRA.


OldTexas said...

Listen turkeys, if your team does not have a good play book and keeps making bad plays you are right to boo them and hold them accountable. We have a lot at stake here and we need to connect to all of our gun owners, not just the old fat guys who can't hear crap.

I have seen a wonderful change in the last 15 years in the makeup of folks at the gun range. There are women and young people and not very white people and these are our future. When the NRA sounds stupid and runs people off we have to call them on it.

Anonymous said...

Yup, call them on it.

In a performance review given directly to them. Performance reviews usually happen inside the building, after all.

Outside the building, either ignore them or back them up. Don't help the haters hate.

Anonymous said...

I can sort of see the video game issue as valid...not for any reason, other than anecdotal. My DD's 11th b-day party was at the local gun range. It's what she really wanted to do, and she invited 5 other kids. It became very clear, after a few moments, those kids who had real life experience handling guns, and those who only had video game experience.

A good time was had by all, but boy, those kids with only video game experience came out of that birthday party stunned and shocked that there was such a difference between their xboxs and ps3s and the real guns they held. It was an eye opener for them, and their parents. Parents who, themselves, admitted they had no gun experience. It makes me wonder about kids who don't get that chance to be exposed to guns in a hands on, safe manner. If the only education they get about guns is from games and movies, does it make a difference? Yeah, I think maybe, it might.

And in case anyone was wondering, my DD's birthday party was not only the most talked about party of the year, but the one that everyone is trolling to get an invite to next year. Only problem is, she's thinking horse back riding for the next one...

Justthisguy said...

Horseback riding is OK, but I recommend having only sleepy old mares. I mind the time my Uncle Zed tried to saddle up a pony for us when I was a kid. That critter tried all of the mean pony tricks, like inhaling so he couldn't get the girth tight, offering to bite, usw.

He finally got the saddle on, after kneeing the critter in the tummy and thwacking it some. He then offered me a ride. I declined.

I mind a gal I used to know who had a pony when she was a kid. She told me she had to stay on top of that pony's mind at all times; he was fond of wanting to run under horizontal tree limbs which were at just the exact height of his rider's head.