Friday, February 01, 2013

Like a record, baby, right 'round, 'round, 'round...

Obama's support of school Resource Officers proves to be sound!

See, I was listening to NPR the other day, and one of the commentators was explaining that the Republicans, goaded by that crazy guy Wayne LaPierre and his NRA extremists, wanted to hire armed security for schools, while the more moderate and centrist Democrats, led by Barack, wanted to provide federal funding for school Resource Officers.

I am not kidding. I heard this with my own ears and nearly drove into a telephone pole. The sky really is a different color in that world...

42 comments:

Joanna said...

These are the same people who would flip their shit if someone suggested privatizing, I dunno, road construction or something. It's only good if the government is ultimately in charge.

Yu-Ain Gonnano said...

Oh, but you see, the police officer is a good and noble servant of The People™ who is motivated by his desire to protect his fellow man.

An armed guard is a rent-a-cop who shoots people for money.

Anonymous said...

"You can't professionalize unless you federalize," - Tom Daschle, D-S.D, Sooper Genius, Lollypop Guild, Blueshirt Gropers Local 666.

Bubblehead Les. said...

Let's check the Small Print, shall we? If 2/3rds of the Schools out there ADD Federal SRO's and there's about 100,000 Schools, then that means 66,000 New FEDERAL Employees can join the Union AND we'll get the same level of Protection that the TSA provides! Heck, they may even allow Inter-Agency Transfers, so that P.S 213 can have a mix of TSA AND ATF roaming the Halls!

Or the various states can just say "Send the School Principals to the Police Academy and we'll pick up the Tab for the Training and a couple of Glocks."

Hmmm, decisions, decisions.

Panamared said...

Don't forget that the cop gets a government pay check while the security guard is just a citizen with a gun.

Tam said...

Don't fall victim to the flip side of the NPR newsreaders:

Wayne didn't say anything about _private_ armed security.

Barry didn't say anything about _federalizing_ school resource officers.

John A said...

School Resource Officer? Isn't that the person in charge of the supplies cabinet?

Tam said...

John A,

It's a fancy name for "school cop" and has been since at least when I was in high school.

Bubblehead Les. said...

Oh, BTW, I've read that about 1/3rd of the Schools in the U.S. already have ARMED SROs in them. But they're mostly at the High School Level.

Which means 1/3rd of the Schools in the "Gun Free Zones" already HAVE Guns in them, BTW.

But that's just FINE with the Teachers Unions. Helps keep those 17 year old 250lb Gang Bangers from Raping Ms. Grundy, you know. But to put a GUN in a Kindergarten, why, that's just Barbaric!

And don't get me started on Campus Police.

Bubblehead Les. said...

Tam, remember when they came up with the TSA? Weren't there "Promises" that it would be temporary, and they weren't going to Federalized, nor were they ever going to have a Union?

And don't we live in time where the Dept. of Agriculture sends in SWAT Teams to Raid stores that sell unpasteurized Milk?

Oh, as for Private Security Firms, who do you think is providing Security for all those people still living in FEMA Camps from Sandy? My Buddy did 2 weeks working for a Security Firm guarding one on Long Island a couple of months ago.

My point is this: Barry can SAY anything he wants. But as soon as the Federal Camel gets it's Nose in a Tent, it's awfully hard to get it out.

I say make it easier for the individual Districts to decide how they want to handle Security, and if they want to hire the Pinkertons, fine. Just keep the Feds out of it.

And if they cave to the Teacher's Unions (who seem to be Loudest Whiners about keeping Armed Guards out of the Schools) then the locals can Vote out the School Board after the next Slaughter happens.

It's not like they weren't warned that No School is Safe, especially after what happened to those Amish kids a couple of years ago in Pennsylvania.

cj said...

I believe the NRA should issue a press release that the sky is blue. I wonder how many hours would then be spent in the media arguing that the NRA is, in fact, wrong, and that experts agree that the sky is, in fact, pale turquoise.

Anonymous said...

SRO's are usually full time police officers from the local department that already have some years of experience. Their salaries are typically paid partly by the school district and partly by the law enforcement agency. The federal government has several programs which can subsidize (at least in part)the law enforcement agency's costs for the officer (salary, benefits, and eqwuipment).
The officers go through all the same training as street officers including annual in-service refresher training. They are separate from and much more expensive than security guards hird by a local school district (typically known as "Safety and Security Officers" or some other nomenclature, thus proving the theorem that the longer the title the less effective and necessary the job.)
The titel School Resource Officer came from some Clinton era Community Oriented Policing Grants.
A typical SRO handles much more than waiting for a Columbine incident to develop. They deal with unruly students, crimes on campus, etc. As a 34 year LEO, I can tell you it's a job I wouldn't want.
If all you want to do is protect against a Newtown type incident, then armed and trained school personnel (teachers and administrators) is probably the most efficient method. Some schools have groups, usually organized through the PTA, where parents, normally fathers, volunteer to spend time on elementary school campuses (coordinated with the school administration) to provide a father type presence and deter off campus problems. This could also be expanded and turned into a protection program with less expense than an SRO in every school.
Unfortunately, emotions are running so high that no one seems willing to talk about affordable and sensible solutions that don't involve knee-jerk old school Socialist "solutions."

Oh well, maybe when the dust settles and some other crisis has captured our attention then progress on safeguarding kids might happen.

Not-yet retired Cop

billf said...

Re 'not yet retired cop'your explaination makes sense.
I'm OK with the school district splitting the cost of (on or off)duty police patrolling the schools;or volunteers with some training doing it;or the school district hiring security;or best idea-getting some training for the school principal or teachers to look out for their own school.What I'm not OK with ,is adding more Fed employees or expanding some Fed departmennt and hiring another few thousand of Fed govt employees to add to the deficit.When did people get so anxious to have a govt be the biggest employer in the country(world?)?How are we EVER going to pay for it all?
Bill

Fuzzy Curmudgeon said...

I know the township up here has its own uniformed officers.

That said, I'm pretty sure the only place they tend to hang is at the high school -- maybe at the middle schools, but I go by there all the time and rarely see a cruiser. And the only time I think there is ever a cop anywhere near one of the elementary schools is when they're radaring cars in the school zones, which is usually Metro doing it, not the town(ship) clowns. Most of the time it looks to me like you could walk into the elementary school right up the street, start blazing away, and nobody would be able to stop you.

But what do I know.

rickn8or said...

bilf, WE aren't going to pay for it, my grandkids are gonna pay the interest on it.

And I'm dreading the day they figure all this out...

Chalkie said...

If it saves even one life, isn't it worth it to put an armed resource officer in every school?

Even one life.

Fuzzy Curmudgeon said...

(I should note that the township cops in my township, while not affiliated directly with Metro, are all special deputies with arrest powers. There was a brief period when I was a senior in high school during which the township cops lost their special deputy status -- the sheriff (who was in charge of all special deputies) got snotty with the City-County Council -- I think after an incident with a special deputy who accidentally shot someone or was drunk and disorderly, or something like that -- revoked all special deputy badges, and hilarity ensued. But they all kissed and made up a few weeks later and the township cops resumed wearing badges and carrying pistols.

Meantime a friend of mine got to visit the vice-principal because he drew a cartoon (that the school paper published) that made a bit of fun of the special deputies having been "stripped" of their powers. You can imagine how that went over with the adults, who took their jobs as First Amendment Deniers quite seriously in those days.

Anonymous said...

Fuzzy,

You generally will not see police cars issued to SRO's., as that is an unnecessary expense. One of the prime functions of an SRO is to put a face on the uniform for the schoolkids, thus hopefully keeping them from growing into the kind of adult that automatically assumes that people he hasn't met are all clowns.

Not-yet retired cop

Tam,
Please keep up the thoughtful insights. They make my day.
nye cop

pax said...

I love the whooshing sound a point makes while it flies overhead.

JustSomeGuy said...

Feel like I'm missing something here, lotta talk in the comments, but...

I thought the significance of Tam's post was that the wacked-out NRA cuckoo said everybody should wear pants, the maroon! But our secular saint, BO, may his blessings fall upon us, declared everyone should wear trousers! Such sublime wisdom.

I dunno. I think it ought to be pantaloons. Because...pantaloons!

Thanks,
JSG

Scott_S said...

It's because guns owned by the gov. never do bad things.

Crustyrusty said...

Geez, my first year of HS in 1977, we had straight up Chicago PD in the halls. We had race riots, gang warfare, shootings, stabbings, and 7 black guys trying to shank me because I was in German class and therefore some kind of Nazi.

Didn't work very well then; what good will it do now?

Kristophr said...

And Obama increased the chocolate ration to 20 grams today!

Woodman said...

Screw it. Give every teacher a Kimber Pepper Blaster and call it a day.

Will said...

Two problems with SROs: One, they aren't in the classrooms. Reference the SRO at Columbine who exchanged fire with the two clowns at about 70yds range in a hallway, ran out of ammo, and left to find more.

Two, normally there is only one per school, due to cost. There was a shooting at a Southern CA school recently, but the SRO didn't make it to work that day, due to snow.

Brings to mind "two is one, and one is none", eh?

Frank W. James said...

I'm going to step out and be in the minority here because while I'm in favor of trained, armed personnel in our schools I don't believe the school district should have to pay for them.

I know, I know that sounds an awful lot like I'm a hand wringer from the left. I'm NOT, but having undergone 8 years of public school devastation from the likes of Ditch Manuals here in Indiana the last thing our rural school need is another program that takes money AWAY from the core education projects.

Either create a means where armed UNPAID volunteers can be trained and accepted for this task WITH NO COST TO OUR RURAL PUBLIC EDUCATION, or 'Man Up' and pay out of mandatee's pocket, not our already meager rural small public school financial allocations...

All The Best,
Frank W. James

Stretch said...

It is not just a bumper slogan that "Liberalism is a mental illness."
I've encountered many Liberals who hold beliefs that beggar belief. They truly live in a world separate from ours. That is why "compromise" and "accord" can never happen.

Ted N said...

Letting teachers carry if they want to carry seems to be off the table.

Blackwing1 said...

Tam, I thought you had already christened the new agency?

"TSA for Tots"

Tam said...

Blackwing1,

While I wish I could take credit for that line, I merely repeated it.

Anyway, there is no new agency.

Tam said...

Ted N,

"Letting teachers carry if they want to carry seems to be off the table."

That idea seems to have traction at the state level in quite a few places right now. Fingers crossed.

Mark Alger said...

Tam;

I've heard reports that those faculty and staff of schools in Ohio who desire it can get certified, and that classes have already started. I could be a bit forward of that due to wishful thinking and how cool the idea is and thereby might have misheard -- a kind of media mondegreen -- the news items.

Also for School Resource Officer. Not gonna claim any special knowledge, but Cincinnati Public Schools started a program while I was in HS. That would be between 66 and 72.

We had two during my tenure at Walnut Hills. Don't remember the first one except he had a really wicked wry sense of humor. The second was was Ossifer Sferro, and he got pictures and credits in the yearbook.

Had a mighty tolerance for dope-smokin' hippies, too. I recall one incident where a pot plant got mated to the aerial of his cruiser and pictures taken. He... well, had a good sense of humor about it.

M

Old NFO said...

Okay, I'm glad I'm not the ONLY one that heard that and went WTF??? Sigh

the pawnbroker said...

My shop was across from the local HS for 17 years. Lot of teachers and administrators bought guns from me and a lot of them kept 'em on campus. For protection. Not so much from outsiders, as from some of the little darlin's enrolled there.

SRO's were stationed there starting in the mid 90's; true sworn LEO's from the Sheriff's Office. For protection. Not so much from outsiders, as from some of the little darlin's enrolled there.

Tom hung around my counter from his first year as a jailer at the SO in '86, progressing through the ranks of patrol, detective, and eventually head of the CSI unit, and winding down for the last few years as SRO when they started placing them at the middle schools. He said it was the most dangerous stint of his career, yet he never had a confrontation with an outsider other than some irate parents. It was some of the little darlin's that posed the greatest threat to the other students, to the teachers, and even to him. In middle school. Last year he retired at 25 years instead of the planned 30, to go into a less stressful and dangerous business.

So I helped him startup his new gun and pawn shop.

Not sure what this says; maybe that the threat from fucked-up outsiders, while exploited and co-opted by some to further their own agenda, pales in comparison to the threat from within that our fucked-up system has fostered with our complicity...but it's true.

Ed said...

As an adult citizen of the United States, you have the right to keep and bear arms, or so it says in the U.S. Constitution. In accordance with that principle, let us get rid of all the laws that unconstitutionally impede the assertion of that right. Enact Constitutional Carry for all. Let the Government work with the NRA under the original intent of the NRA to get all U.S. citizens who are interested proficient in the safe and effective use of arms.

What would be the effect of this? Want to go to the movies and carry? Do it. Want to teach 2nd graders and carry? Do it. Want to go to the movie theater or the elementary school and shoot innocent people? Don't do it. There are lots of people there carrying guns and they know how to shoot and hit what they aim at. To go there with bad intent would be crazy as your chance of long term survival would be minimal. To the left, that is a dystopian vision. To the rest of us, what we have now is dystopia.

My favorite Col. Jeff Cooper quote is as follows: “One bleeding-heart type asked me in a recent interview if I did not agree that ‘violence begets violence.’ I told him that it is my earnest endeavor to see that it does. I would like very much to ensure—and in some cases I have—that any man who offers violence to his fellow citizen begets a whole lot more in return than he can enjoy.”

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/rkba/Cooper_Quotes.htm

the pawnbroker said...

(cont.)

Whether its BHO or NRA that advocates for armed guards everywhere, until we stop cultivating psychopaths, or at least learn to cull them from polite society, we better stand ready to cull them ourselves when the need arises, whether from inside or outside threat. Tom's first safety class for FL CWP is half women including 3 teachers, so that's a start.

treefroggy said...

Cannibalize a couple of those useless school admin types and use their salary/benefits to pay for the armed guards.

Anonymous said...

Our district traded 2 cops and 2 resource officers for 4 cops. Best move they made all year.

Anonymous said...

Didn't Israel have a bit of a problem in the 60's or 70's, with happy-go-lucky Hamas types barging into schools an shooting up the occupants? Didn't the PTA start providing (volunteer) hall guards, with Galils? Didn't the storn-the-school sort of drop off the map? Hell, my wife and I hereby volunteer to cover 1 day a week as hall monitors (heavily armed hall monitors, at that!) at our granddaughter's school!

markm said...

There are two quite simple reasons I don't want cops guarding the schools:

1) I don't want to hear even more news about elementary students being handcuffed and interrogated. (Google "handcuffs elementary school" if you don't understand this.)

2) They stand out, and therefore they'll only be effective against those shooters that haven't planned ahead. Either the shooter will learn their schedule and plan to start while the SRO is out to lunch (Columbine?), or the shooter will learn their schedule and habits and ambush them first.

So the ideal armed guard for the school has no arrest powers or illusions of competency as a detective, and blends in with the other adults in the school. In fact, this guard needs a cover identity as a teacher or other staff member, and she or he needs to actually be doing that job, because kids *do* notice things like a teacher that doesn't teach.

So the ideal armed guard for a school is a teacher or other staff member with a concealed carry permit.

Let the shrieking begin.

Tam said...

markm,

"Let the shrieking begin."

Shrieking by who? I don't think anybody here disagrees with the idea of letting teachers with toter's permits tote in school. (They already do, at least in Utah.)

Whether or not anyone likes SROs, they've been around for decades and aren't likely to be going away any time soon.

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