Sunday, June 30, 2013

Today was a good day...

Another good day at the range...


Shootin' Buddy took up reloading again during the current ammo shortage. His 230gr LRN reloads have been running well so far, at least until today, when this malf popped up a dozen times or so.

The malf happened in both his Les Baer TRS and this Springfield Lightweight Loaded maybe ten times today, total. Both guns were using Baer mags. The only thing in common was the ammo and the nature of the malf. To my eye, it looks like the rim wasn't making it under the extractor claw, but I can't think what factor in reloaded ammo would cause that across two different guns. Any of you twenty-pound-brain reloading gurus, feel free to chime in...

18 comments:

Richard Blaine said...

Rim damage, seating depth, crimp would be the primary culprits on the bullet. Check the brass - look for dents on the rim that cause thickness changes - which will interfere with the rim slipping under the extractor.

Check the OAL be sure he's not seating them too deep, which will change the angle and allow the cartridge to pop out of the mag at too steep an angle.

If he failed to get a good taper crimp, it might interfere with feeding.

Pretty much in that order.

Jim Dunmyer said...

Adjusting overall length by changing the seating depth of the bullet will probably bring good results. At least, that's been my experience.

If he's loading close to max powder charges, he should back off if he seats the bullet deeper.

FWIW: I use about 3.9 grains of Bullseye behind a similar bullet and it works well in several M1911's. My buddy's S&W M&P needs more powder, however.

Ritchie said...

I would suggest the possibility that the load is too light to throw the slide back far enough to clear the rear of the cartridge, and allow time for it to rise into feeding position. If this is the case, the empties will probably just sort of dribble over the side, too.

Frank W. James said...

Yeah, I'd look at O.A.L. of the reloaded round as well as the powder charge.

It's not that the load is too light, but if it is not matched to the right recoil spring 'weight' then you'll see stuff like this.

I'm willing to bet both guns are set up for heavy/self-defense type loads and his reloads might be a little on the more 'economical' side of the ledger.

Try a lighter recoil spring and see it the problem persists with these same handloads...

All The Best,
Frank W. James

Anonymous said...

That's eighty pounds of brains chiming in above (and about a hunnert years of hands-on loading experience I'm guessing). Where else but maybe Pawn Stars is so much expertise at the beck and call?

Anonymous said...

OAL for that round nose profile is a bit short to me, and I would like to know what sort of load that really is in terms of powder charge.

Ed Foster said...

Pretty much what everybody else says. I run the Lyman 225 LRN over 6.5 grains of Unique with an 18 pound spring. Cast the bullets hard (10-1-1) and it duplicates a hot (but standard pressure) loaded factory 230.

I've had good luck keeping the overall length at 1.245 to 1.250 with lead round nose bullets, and that's over tens of thousands of rounds of test ammo.

You might also pull the extractor and stone out (not file) the back side of the slot in the rear, that locks over the firing pin stop. If it's a bit burred, it will give you an extra thousandth or two of extractor clearance on a burred or oversized rim. Don't take a file to it, please. Too much clearance is worse than not enough.

og said...

Did you notice any dents on the bullet? I have had similar issues related to bullet hardness. Pure lead is soft, about the same softness as a 6b pencil, where H is about linotype. A 6b will scratch a soft bullet, but just draw a line on a hard one. I would suspect that SB's reloads are pretty carefully loaded as he doesn't seem the uncautious type; the only thing he can't control is a soft bullet or two in the lot. THe people at Cast Boolets talk a lot about lead hardness and f2f. A soft bullet will catch on the tiniest of surface features on a mirror smooth looking ramp, where a hard bullet will slip by like nothing. Sitting and drawing on the base of the bullets prior to loading seems an awful lot of trouble, but if SB's supplier has quality variations it might be worth experimenting.

Scott J said...

I've been doing cast .45 since early 2010 and I've never seen that particular malfunction.

My biggest bugaboo with .45 was leaving too much driving band sticking out of the case trying to hit a particular OAL leading to FTRB when the boolit jammed against the barrel leade.

That's something shootin' buddy will need to watch out for if he starts seating longer to deal with this issue.

JohninMd.(too late?!??) said...

Personally, I'm with Frank. But hell, a bad day at the range beats a good day at work....

Anonymous said...

Great song... "Today Was a Good Day" Ice Cube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3EeBFE44MU

Anonymous said...

230 grain RN (Indiana bullet company); CCI primers; 10.1 Accurate No. 7.

I have been advised that I might want to try cleaning my range mags. I think it has been over a year since I have cleaned them.

Shootin' Buddy

Marcus said...

Check the seating die to make sure no lube has built up inside. Too much bullet lube in the die will affect seating depth/COAL.

Matt G said...

Shootin' Buddy-- Are you chamber-checking each load by dropping them into a pulled barrel, night before?

Will said...

Matt,
in this problem, they never made it anywhere near the chamber, so that particular quality check will have no bearing on it. Really good idea for serious use ammo, though!

I'm thinking they may be over length, as I've had feeding problems with RNL when the cylindrical body of the bullet is protruding beyond the case like that.

However, a weak mag spring, or very dirty mag, can cause this.

Bear in mind, often there is more than one factor combining to cause problems such as this. Makes troubleshooting fun! (of the hair pulling category...)

If the ammo stack is a little slow, or sticky, in driving that top round up against the feed lips after the slide retracts beyond the mag, the slide smacks the base and bounces it away from the breechface before it can slip under the extractor hook.

There has to be resistance to movement of the round under the feed lips of the mag, in other words. :)

This stovepipe is one of the possibilities. The other is it chambers with the extractor behind it, which may cause the hook to break off, as it was not designed to snap over the rim. Much joy will follow that scenario!

Gewehr98 said...

Take a calipers to the handloads, and then to a USGI 230gr RN (or equivalent) round. I have to query the cartridge OAL, myself. They ain't makin' it up the feed ramp in one smooth continuous motion, then they stop at the hood instead of going into battery.

BTW, who in the name of Sam Hill made those grip screws?

Will said...

J Kuhnhausen's 1911 manual says the OAL spec for .45acp ball is:

1.200"-1.275"

I measured some re-manufactured, and they were right in the middle of that span. No factory ball handy for checking.

blindshooter said...

I get this if the load is light and the recoil spring to heavy. If they run with factory loads they should run with LRN.
Ritchie and Frank J nailed it. IMO anyway.