Friday, March 04, 2011

I've seen the future, brother; it is murder...

So, in doing some research on the intertubes yesterday, I came across the website for EUFOR Althea. EUFOR Althea is the European Union military mission that has taken over responsibility for playing traffic cop in Bosnia-Califragilisticexpialidocious with the expiration of the NATO IFOR mission.

The website was the grimmest thing I've seen in a while. There's hardly any indication that you're on a military webpage at all, except for the occasional people in uniforms, and some of them are in various Euro nations' equivalent of Class A's, which in post-WWII Europe are usually styled to be slightly less martial-looking than your average train conductor. There are no guns, or jet fighters, or Leopard II tanks visible anywhere on the website to remind the locals what will happen if they don't stick to the Dayton Accords, but there is a link in the sidebar to a video on the successful EUFOR Althea Gender Conference.

It's like some strange Eloi vision of what a military is supposed to be; not that they showed any equipment so aggressive-looking as an Armored Personnel Carrier, but if they had, I'll bet it would have had a wheelchair lift.

Can you imagine what this looks like to the barbarians outside the walls?

32 comments:

McVee said...

I dunno Tam, everyone seems to be smiling in the pictures... :)
Interesting. I've always wondered what the purpose of informational websites like this are for. Other than for the benefit of uberbloggers like yourself does the typical Bosnian look up this info like I use my village website to check to see if today is a holiday that the garbage man doesn't pick up the garbage?
"Ok, todays Thursday, they do pick up spent rounds"

McVee said...

Those are some funky stockings She's wearing.
He looks like an aging Peter Sellers in that video.

pdb said...

...or inside the walls?

Anonymous said...

"Can you imagine what this looks like to the barbarians outside the walls?"

Lunch.

AT

skidmark said...

An honor guard without weapons with which to render honors? WFT is that?

stay safe.

Ancient Woodsman said...

21 July 2009 has five slides from an international shooting competition. Hmmm. Two different guys shooting Glocks right handed with right eye closed?

The general's uniform does look like something either Mel Brooks or Terry Gilliam would have designed. And those stockings McVee noted...! Wow. At an international conference, no less.

Anonymous said...

But they have no gender issues!!!

At the end of the day what else matters?

While I was on a dog and pony show in Romanaia we drove through a small Gypsy town. I was riding in a bus along with some friends in the Canadian Army.

WO Sean, " It looks like Bosnia."

SSgt Dom, " F$ing Bosnia."

Entire bus, "F$ing Bosnia."

Gerry

Matt G said...

Holy crap. Al T. beat me to it, verbatim.

Turk Turon said...

An APC with a wheelchair lift...
I'm gonna be groovin' on that all day!

Joshkie said...

UN light. Wow and that is saying something.

Josh

perlhaqr said...

*LMAO*

AT already gave the precise response I was going to go with. :)

MauserMedic said...

When your military is essentially a welfare-state jobs program, thanks to a certain superpower providing the muscle for most interventions,this is what you get.

jimbob86 said...

"Can you imagine what this looks like to the barbarians outside the walls?"

They are inside the walls, and reproducing at 4 to 5 times the rate of the Europeans .... I guess they don't waste any time with "gender issues" ......

wv- "deringe" How the Euro .mil is going to attempt to stop the Muslim Horde: pull their 2 shot break open pistol with the 12 pound spur trigger, and threaten to "derringe" them.

Derringers- a good analogy for the European .mil: low firepower, overly expensive, rarely seen, and poorly thought of by folks with serious weapons.

GuardDuck said...

It looked like the result of a 'what if Berkely had an army'.

DaddyBear said...

Looks like a soft underbelly to me. Smog may not survive the next battle.

Bram said...

Odd disconnect. During my last AT, my unit hosted a couple of German Tanker NCO's. They were real interested in playing with tanks, shooting machine guns, drinking beer and chasing women. A few years earlier, we had British NCO's who had the same objectives.

So the average soldiers aren’t much different than ours, but the European Union seems to be putting eunuch bureaucrats in charge. I wonder if they would stay in charge if the Europeans were fighting for their lives.

DirtCrashr said...

It's all about the panache of Uniforms! And saluting! Without a badged-beret some guys/chicks would never get laid, and they visit a lot! Visits = Free food! Like when the king went to visit his Barons, and stayed for a month or three... The Euros never change - the stockings are only there for removal.

Bubblehead Les. said...

Meanwhile, over on the Russian side.....

Joshkie said...

Bram -

You named to real militaries.
So, I'm confused as to your point.

:-)
Josh

Timmeehh said...

Being a vet of the mid-70's Kanuckistani military, all that I can say is, those guys looked pretty hard core. :P

Joe in PNG said...

I gotta say, haven't we spent the last couple of wars trying to get Europe away from militarism?

Joshkie said...

A military big/strong enough to defend itself and disway agresion is one thing. A military complex bent on world domination is another.

A feeling security tends to tamp down a need for agresion.
If you have economic security and the ability to defend it. Most will not risk losing all of what they have to acquire more.

Most wars or over land and resource acquisition, and yes I'm including religion; as, what is the human soul and people but the resource that religion traid in.

Josh

Außenseiter said...


They are inside the walls, and reproducing at 4 to 5 times the rate of the Europeans


Do you realize European Union has 550 million inhabitants? Out of those, there about 52 millions of Muslims. Most numerous are French ones and they have on average 2.4 children per family... (which is only ~.4 above french average)

I'd say that as a group, these Muslims are far less trouble than the blacks in the US.

The EUFOR mission seems to be nothing more than a more heavily armed (and outsider, thus impartial) police force.

Both British and German PM's have publicly said multiculturalism has failed. People are pissed off and the facade of political correctness is cracking. Things will change.

jimbob86 said...

"Do you realize European Union has 550 million inhabitants? Out of those, there about 52 millions of Muslims. Most numerous are French ones and they have on average 2.4 children per family... (which is only ~.4 above french average)"

Depends upon whose numbers you read, and which numbers, Auss.

You suppose thay have an accurate count in those areas of French cities where the police do not go, and have ceded their authority to Islamic Sharia courts?

The nubers I have seen suggest that the average French non-Islamic woman has fewer than one live birth in her lifetime. ... that ain't sustainable. Fewer than 2 ain't sustainable..... I am betting on a French Caliphate in my lifetime.....

Buzz said...

What happens when you leave war to bureaucrats and diplomats, rather than soldiers?

Soldiers from a free country want to get the job done, get the frack out, and go back home to their families. ('cept the few expats that find the local womenfolk to be of a particular suitability for his tastes, so he establishes new roots)

The socialist "peacekeepers" always have an endgame in mind and that rarely includes allowing the locals to be free to decide for themselves what "free" means.

Außenseiter said...


The nubers I have seen suggest that the average French non-Islamic woman has fewer than one live birth in her lifetime. ... that ain't sustainable. Fewer than 2 ain't sustainable..... I am betting on a French



http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=5118754


Keep in mind that only about 5% of French citizens are Muslims. And they are most concentrated in the cities. France is actually pretty well off when it comes to natality. Germany, Italy and the Baltics on the other hand..

Sharia courts? In France? Where they don't allow crucifixes in school? They may exist, but whatever they decide won't be enforced by the state.

Sharia courts are mainly a British problem:
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/3522

Tam said...

Außenseiter,

"I'd say that as a group, these Muslims are far less trouble than the blacks in the US."

*Snerk*

Boy you people over there still don't get it, do you?

I always loved getting lectures about racial problems in the US from some Euro-type.

Keep your xenophobia going, though, because y'all may be needing it soon... :)

TimP said...

@Außenseiter:
"The EUFOR mission seems to be nothing more than a more heavily armed (and outsider, thus impartial) police force."

Looking at their pictures I think the more heavily armed bit is a little inaccurate. I've seen police forces with more weapons in view. Excluding the weapons at the "International Shooting Contest" I only saw one pistol on the entire site, and reading their equipment list is sounds like they just have a few rifles, machine guns, and 4WDs. Most police forces have some shotguns, carbines, sub-machine guns, and 4WDs as well. It sounds like they don't have any armoured vehicles either.

Regardeless of how well armed they actually are though, the more interesting thing is that they appear to have gone out of their way to not look as well armed as even your average small town police force.

jimbob86 said...

"Sharia courts? In France? Where they don't allow crucifixes in school? They may exist, but whatever they decide won't be enforced by the state."

Small comfort to the people in PLACES THE POLICE WILL NOT GO.

"The EUFOR mission seems to be nothing more than a more heavily armed (and outsider, thus impartial) police force."

More heavily armed is relative, I guess .......

http://jalopnik.com/#!5044539/rambo-p-coltrane-south-carolina-sheriff-invests-in-apc-armed-with-50+cal-machine-gun

Außenseiter said...

@Tam

I dunno. Maybe they think submachine guns, shotguns, and carbines are obsolete weapons. Assault rifles were designed to be versatile after all. As to few, do you doubt they have enough for every soldier? It's not like ordinary rifles are expensive. There's millions of them stockpiled.

Also, machineguns. I haven't ever heard of police fielding those. Though, had the LAPD fielded minimis or M60's that crazy North Hollywood shootout could've been a lot shorter.

APC?
I'm not sure I would want to live in a place where law enforcement needs to have APC's. Sounds bit like what the Brazilians have. Slum clearance by tanks.


I always loved getting lectures about racial problems in the US from some Euro-type.

I was merely offering an observation. Outside of Britain, I believe EU has less violent crime overall.

Tam said...

Außenseiter,

"...carbines are obsolete weapons. Assault rifles were designed to be..."

Most police carbines over here are what you would call an "assault rifle".

Even those lacking the Group Therapy setting on the selector will work just fine, as that has little application outside of purely military settings. Cops and peacekeepers try to avoid laying down suppressive FA fire; all the misses are bad for PR.

May your enemies always be on Full-Auto! :)

Geodkyt said...

Außenseiter,

One thing to remember when comparing crime stats between countries.

The US is one of the few that reports on the basis of reported crimes.

Almost everyone else (all of Europe, so far as I recall) only counts solved crimes (and often only convictions)-- after all, until you hold the court case, theoretically, you don't know a particular crime was committed. It may only look like an aggravated assault and battery, but in court it may turn out to be simple assault, justified self defense, or pure mischance, after all.