Sunday, February 16, 2014

The gear train.

Saw mention at OldNFO's place that a friend had some pistols up for sale, one of which was an HK P30. I actually riffled through the Blue Book just to see what it said about the value of one in a listed 90% condition before yanking my own leash up short.

Yeah, it might be a screaming deal on a great 9mm pistol, but then there'd need to be a second one, and nobody makes a .22 trainer that I know of, plus the investment in new holsters, and sights, and a blue gun, and...

...and I really can't afford to switch carry guns* more than once a decade or so. Sigh.

*And that's the only use I'd have for a P30. Otherwise, that's money that'd buy a few top-break Smifs.


I'm Charlie said...

Amen. I switched from 1911's to the M&P platform about six months ago and I'm still not fully through the transition with regard to having everything I need/want for my carry piece. It's quite the commitment to do it correctly.

Alien said...

Way off topic, but any recent word on Farmer Frank?

T.Stahl said...

Probably a good decision.
Just it being an HK means that mags will be proprietary and nothing but P30 mags will fit. They'll three times as much a Glock mags and be half a durable.

If I moved to the US and carrying would become the main reason to own and train with a handgun, a 9/.22 M&P combo might win over a Glock.

Sport Pilot said...

Prudent decision Tam, besides you've already got a functional primary gun set up that's good to go.

Kendal Black said...

There are more than a dozen types of pistols that will provide you with adequate and approximately equal protection, so yeah, there's not a lot of reason to switch around.

I've shot quite an assortment of defense pistols over the years, and find they are all intended to solve the same problem, varying in approaches taken by the designers to various design questions, most of which questions are of scant importance to the user.

RevolverRob said...

This is why I'm reticent to leave my revolvers behind for a semi-auto. I have a lot of training time and money invested in double-action revolver platform and it would take the same amount (or more) to move away from it permanently.

Same reason I gave up on switching from a pump to semi-auto shotgun. I have three pumps in two gauges. Sure I'd love to grab an 1100 Tac-4 and a Benelli M4 and a Benelli M1 Super 90, but I'd just be wasting money I could spend buying ammo and training with.


Tom the Impaler said...

Besides Tam, You suck and H&K hates you.

Anonymous said...

now you have my attention. :)
apparently I'm the only one who likes them here.

Tam said...

"apparently I'm the only one who likes them here."

I like 'em just fine. If somebody walked up and offered to trade me three P30s straight across for my M&Ps, I'd run you over to make the trade.

Assuming they included sights and holsters and suchlike. Well...

I dunno, you can't get Lasergrips for them, and that's a downcheck...

I'd have to think about the deal, come to think about it.

JohninMd.(help?!??) said...

Meh. Looks like a kraut High Point.....

Montana said...

IMO The want of a .22 trainer for your pistol is outdated. 9mm is more available than .22 and less expensive

I'm also not a huge believer in having two of my carry gun, I keep the same manual of arms but not the same gun.

I pay for it in mags and holsters, but not enough to care.

Old NFO said...

Tam, thanks for the link. I'm not sure what else he has, as he's still digging through safes and holsters and magazines.

Tam said...


Personally, I don't think the current availability environment will last forever.

As for the other, well, whatever blows your skirt up. I ain't gotta shoot your guns, so I don't care. :)

Mike_C said...

Good for you. Avoid outbreaks of GAS (gear acquisition syndrome). Yesterday I'd planned to work on some manuscripts but got too buzzed on caffeine to concentrate (don't normally drink coffee, but a really good pastry demands good coffee ...) and made a road trip to the camera store (the other shooting hobby) for no good reason. Bought three used lenses -- none of which I can really say I need -- because They were such a good deal. That was an expensive cup of Peet's. At least I didn't buy that extra DSLR body.

Angus McThag said...

Stage 11. Much like Stage 9 except you own a duplicate of every thing you carry, a .22 trainer for them; plus blue guns.

Told you.

Tam said...


H. M. Stuart said...

The only thing I can see to criticize about the P30 is its priciness, and perhaps the mag release for those who fear James Bond will get the drop on them and leave them with only one point-blank shot center of mass. And unless one is actually on the Teams or in LEO, the standard V3 trigger pull is far more likely to spare one an embarrassing trip to the ER in a real life draw situation than to hamper one's style. Plenty of time to make that long first trigger pull while acquiring the sight picture.

All that said, Tam, we'd like to invite you to become one of our Authors in Alexandria. This invitation has been extended to you by email as well.

In addition to posting on anything you wish, as you desire, you may of course mirror posts you've already written from here or elsewhere to gain a different or additional audience or for any other reason that appeals to you.

If you think you might be interested, contact me through Alexandria or by return email via this comment and I'll forward our formal invitations for you to look over and return if you decide to proceed.

Come contribute your perspectives and opinions to the ongoing conversations there or, even better, start some new - and different - ones of your own.

I look forward to hearing from you.

H. M. Stuart

Ed said...

Seeing some comments about the scarcity of H&K P30 magazines, I searched on the phrase "H&K P30 magazines". The first item yielded was:

Expensive but available, with the 10 round magazines even more expensive than the standard capacity magazines.

ST said...

A wise decision. You'd need a line of credit with the Federal Reserve to afford the spare magazines alone.

Anonymous said...

Herr Stahl,

I'd like to take issue with some of your statements. My comments are in brackets. You said,

- Just it being an HK means that mags will be proprietary... [Both the Glock and M&P you mention have proprietary mags. It's not like you can run M&P mags in a Glock or vice-versa.]

- Nothing but P30 mags will fit. [True, but you CAN run P30 mags in USP or P2000-series pistols.]

-They'll three times as much a Glock mags and be half a durable. [Try less than twice as much (at least on Midway's site. Is it really that much of a discrepancy in Deutschland? As for durability, please cite your source.] :)

I have no issue with honest criticism, but yours doesn't seem to fit that definition.

- Drifter

Tam said...

"True, but you CAN run P30 mags in USP or P2000-series pistols."

As they say on Wikipedia {citation needed. ;)

(IIRC, P30 mags will run in a USP9C, but not a USP9F. And USP9F mags won't even work in a USP9C or vice versa. To people used to being able to stuff a Glock 17 mag into any 9mm Glock on the market, this will seem weird.)

Anonymous said...


Apologies for the misspeak on my part. I was thinking "USPc", but that's obviously not what I typed. You are correct in that a P30 mag will NOT fit a USP unless it's a 9mm compact.

For kicks and giggles, post #4 at shows a compatibility diagram.

Having said that, I understand get your (and Herr Stahl's) point as neither Glock nor S&W 9mms need a freakin' chart for this. My intent was not to say that H&K were better or even comparable in that respect. I was just trying to show that there is SOME compatibility within the brand.


T.Stahl said...

Don't sir me.
HK made or makes how many different 9mm? And in how many cases are the magazines interchangeable or at least downward compatible?
I got 17 mags for my G17L and they'll fit in any other 9mm Glock.
The nation-wide chain that usually serves as a reference for how much you shouldn't pay ask 65€ for a P30 mag and 28€ for Glock 17 mag, so they are only 2.3times as expensive.
My opinion regarding durability is based on my brother's and my experience with his USP9e and my G17L. He actually managed to damage a mag beyond repair.