Thursday, August 07, 2014

That stuff'll get you killed on the street, yo.

So, I know a fair number of people who say that when they shoot an IDPA or USPSA match, they do it as practice and abstain from running through the course, guns blazing. Instead, they make use of cover even when the stage doesn't call for it and practice "slicing the pie" around corners and whatnot...

And yet I don't know a single person who shoots entire High Power rifle matches from prone because that's how they'd do it in the Real World©®™, yo.

(Similarly, why not wait for the clay bird to land and blast it while it's sitting still? I mean, if I'm starving in the woods, sportsmanship isn't going to fill my pot. Gotta practice for the street.)


ETA: As she has a way of doing, my friend Kathy brings up an extremely valid point in comments that leaves me feeling a little ashamed of my early morning off-hand flippancy. I'll reproduce her comment here in the body of the post to make sure folks read it:
"It's a shame that the only way most people can practice important, life-saving skills like getting behind cover or slicing the pie, happens in a context where other people just want to play a fun game and enjoy it. It's rare to find a club where people are allowed to draw from concealment or move with a gun in hand outside the competition setting. So is it any wonder that people who want to practice those skills often end up shooting alongside people who are there to compete?

I don't think either type of shooter should be insulting the other.
.

28 comments:

Reno Sepulveda said...

This reminds me of my youth. I was too young for a hunting license and so I didn't get to go dove hunting with my dad, uncles and cousins. I was kind of sad and pissed so I grabbed my trusty Sheridan and a tin of pellets and walked about a 1/2 mile into a nearby peach orchard. I'd planned on trying to shoot a rabbit but damn if those peach trees weren't full of doves!

I was too young for Calif's. Hunter's Safety Course as well so I knew nothing of game limits. I forget the exact number of doves I killed that day but I did considerably better than my dad.

nguyenhm16 said...

Well, there are prone (only) high power matches, along with its high-budget Canadian cousin, F-Class a/k/a belly benchrest.

Scott J said...

I've been an IDPA member since 2011. I realized early on it was a game and treat it as such.

About the only thing about it you could call training is that you learn to work your gun under some mild pressure. That timer beep is a mind eraser :)

Tam said...

Take care of the Internet today, Reno. Don't bend it for the next kid. ;)

Paul said...

If I am in survival mode, traps will be my bread and butter. Lots and lots of traps. Some big, some little.

They work while I sleep. Getting to them might be a different story though as an animal in its death throes will bring in other predators from time to time.

I did IDPA once, and while I did see some value in the practice, I had issues with some of the practitioners. One reason I don't get to the range as much as I'd like is it is hard to get there during the week. I have a real hard time with the week end denizens of the place.

But then I guess I am just an anti social individual, but you all probably knew that.

I am wondering what method you prefer for the street, since you seem to have been thinking about it?

Tam said...

Paul,

"I am wondering what method you prefer for the street..."

I'm sorry, I'm not following your question. Method of what?

ted said...

Mostly true. However out of 20-30 deer I'd have to guess that well over half were shot from offhand. Only a couple from prone and only a few more from a sitting position. I don't recall shooting any from kneeling.

Tam said...

Not going prone got those deer killed on the street, yo. ;)

Robb Allen said...

When I do sporting clays, most of my hits are when the pigeon hits the ground and breaks anyway.

So if I can scare food out of the sky with a loud bang and they kill themselves when they hit the ground, I'm good to go during the apocalypse.

Anonymous said...

If you were going to shoot High Power real world yo, it would be from a fighting hole or laying up hill or down hill and on sharp rocks.

The only birds we shot for camp meat were spruce grouse in trees and ptarmigan on rock piles. Not moving gets birds killed.


Gerry

Paul said...

Paul,

"I am wondering what method you prefer for the street..."

I'm sorry, I'm not following your question. Method of what?

Dealing with threats...Or at least that is the supposed reason for IDPA.

I gather the ability to move is important, and do not disagree...I guess moving through and urban environment when people could be shooting at you. I doubt it would be like Saving Private Ryan, but I doubt it would be like rush hour either.


Kurt said...

I read that improper practice makes for improper results, so all that shooting is just making you worse.

That's why I don't practice. Or dry fire. Our even shoot. When it goes down, I want my reactions to be pure and unadulterated by silly little games. Yo.

;-)

Robin said...

I've wondered how long it will take for deer to evolve a low crawl ...

pax said...

It's a shame that the only way most people can practice important, life-saving skills like getting behind cover or slicing the pie, happens in a context where other people just want to play a fun game and enjoy it. It's rare to find a club where people are allowed to draw from concealment or move with a gun in hand [i]outside[/i] the competition setting. So is it any wonder that people who want to practice those skills often end up shooting alongside people who are there to compete?

I don't think either type of shooter should be insulting the other.

armedlaughing said...

I shot IPSC (back-in-the-day) and used a K frame .357 3", with full house loads.
Didn't learn much from the gamers, but the martial artists respected me!

gfa

Anonymous said...

Perhaps they should shoot the course in their pajamas, with only an hour or two of sleep.

Marlon Brando would approve.

Antibubba

SPEMack said...

I shoot matches for the enjoyment factor and also to get some practice in other than square range time.
That being said, once in the big sandbox, my PDM flopped down into the prone with his M-21. Minus the MICAH in lieu of a campaign hat, he looked like he could have been at Camp Perry.

Joseph said...

Might want to check your mattress for a broken spring right around where you backside is resting.

Scott_S said...

They should start their own club where you always use cover - do retention reloads -slice the pie -and play ninja. Coming to someone elses game to play army is silly.

Anonymous said...

The real problem lies in the scoring. IPSC is simple enough, you shot this many points in this amount of time ergo your score is this, all very objective. How do you penalize someone for not taking cover fast enough or for leaving cover before it is safe to do so, which are subjective?

I was in an IPSC club match shooting behind someone with a race gun with the first holo-sight I had ever seen. At every stage the shooter was allowed to turn on the holo-sight and adjust the brightness of the spot and reholster the gun before assuming the ready position. At that point I realized that the game-players had taken over.

Al_in_Ottawa

Tam said...

Al_in_Ottawa,

That's why there are different divisions, though.

Kristophr said...

It sounds like the tactical crowd needs an equivalent to SASS.

Bring your golfbag of guns and have fun, instead of obsessing over tenths of a second.

Boat Guy said...

If CMP would let me shoot an entire match from prone, I'd damn sure do it.

Joel said...

Hey, my friend Ian is always showing up at his club's monthly 2-gun match with something exotic, and sometimes wildly obsolete. Did it one time with a single-shot cavalry carbine, as I recall. He's never remotely competitive, but it makes for good video.

The Gamer vs. Martial Artist debate has been going on at least as long as 9mm vs. .45. Ian would have to check the box marked "other." You take from it what you will. If the people who're there for the score don't mind, what's the beef?

Scott J said...

"with only an hour or two of sleep"

Worked an all-night youth event at Church, got a couple of fitful hours sleep then went and shot SSR once.

Wound up being one of my best finishes with the wheelgun.

Ambulance Driver said...

"Similarly, why not wait for the clay bird to land and blast it while it's sitting still?"

Shit. So THAT'S what I've been doing wrong.

Ted said...

>Tam said...
>Not going prone got those deer >killed on the street, yo. ;)

Actually at least two bucks were shot while they were in their beds.

Silly critters. If they had turned the night light off and the music down they might have spotted me first.

Atom Smasher said...

The only thing that keeps me away from CAS are half the videos I've seen of CAS guys missing the point.

I watched one with sumdood double-handed rapid slipfiring an aimed SA revolver. And he hit the target and acted all proud and happy.

Good for him, but it's just silly to me.