Thursday, October 21, 2010

Und also ze sense of humor is removed...

In a comments thread over at, somebody noted that he couldn't find recommended intervals for spring changes in his HK45 Operator's Manual. Of course, I couldn't resist typing
*biting my tongue and refraining from commenting on the fact that the HK45 comes with an “Operator’s Manual” instead of an “Owner’s Manual”.*
Cue butthurt HK fanboys in 5... 4... 3...

I did shoot half a mag or so through Todd's HK45 test gun. It was soft-shooting for a plastic .45, and unlike some other double-stacks in the genre *coughGlock21cough*, the grip circumference was smaller than a 2x4.

The trigger, like all these light pre-loaded quasi-double-action triggers do, felt weird to me. There's a great big long takeup with hardly any resistance, then there's some weird sproing-y stuff that happens for a fraction of an inch, and then the gun goes BANG! It was manageable and easy to shoot well, but it'd take me some getting used to.


New Jovian Thunderbolt said...

I, too, got such an opportunity to shoot such finely engineered German mastercraftery at the Cleveland blogshoot. The feel was adequate. More so.

I am not as wedded to one trigger type as you might be with your experience with the 1911. Mainly because I cast about too much and don't have nearly enough experience in the first place. I did like the HK trigger over other triggers of the same species. They are definitely decent guns, for the type they are. Even my fumble thumbs could feel that, and i was prepared to not be that impressed.

jimbob86 said...

"Operator" is what HK figured it's target market is: Government Employees. That there are quite a few individuals out there that aspire to be "Operators" (as soon as they put down the controller and get off the couch) does not concern HK .... they hate individuals, and think they suck.

Anonymous said...

Perhaps the preference of the translator?

"Inhaber" is owner in German. Perhaps in the original German it says something else but the translator chose "Operator"?

Did the Glock manuals have problems in the mid-80s because of translation selections? Pffft, translators . . .

Shootin' Buddy

Tam said...

"Perhaps the preference of the translator?"

Perhaps I'm telling a joke?

Robb Allen said...

Some of us with large hands prefer a 2x4 sized grip. It's why, when I bought the Glock 20, I didn't go for the Slim Frame model because every extra mm helps my ginormous digit operation devices to get a good grip.

Double stack is a benefit for me.

WV - deraingr - Nope. Those are too small for me to hold.

Anonymous said...

"Perhaps I'm telling a joke?"

In German? It is forbidden!

Ordnung muss sein!

What is the shortest book in the world?

The big book of German humor.

Now, I off to put up hooks in bathrooms and make lists.

Shootin' Buddy

Anonymous said...

The lady doth project too much.

Tam said...


"I am not as wedded to one trigger type as you might be with your experience with the 1911."

It's not the 1911 trigger time that makes it feel weird; it's all the DA S&W revolver time. I'm used to long-travel triggers having a uniform pull weight over the length of their travel, and no indication of when the gun's about to go off.

A (for the lack of a better term) "two-stage" long travel trigger is just not something I have a lot of time with, and so it always feels unusual to me, like my revolver just broke or something.

Anonymous said...

A real operator would have nothing but praise for the finest pistol in the world.

You suck!

HK Marketing Department

Anonymous said...

I shoot and regularly carry a HK USPC in .45, and I rarely get the urge to invade Poland.

Just sayin', is all.

Anonymous said...

As a part-time HK fanboy myself, I've got to admit the LEM trigger took me by surprise when I began using it last year. My expectations were incredibly low, and I only tested the LEM because HK wanted me to. Prior to that, I was a devout DA/SA advocate who had only occasionally dabbled in the striker-fired world.

My HK45 definitely has some creep in the trigger. However, I prefer the rolling nature of the LEM to the glass rod break of a 1911 specifically because it's easier to anticipate the moment of discharge with the all-or-nothing single action trigger. My P30, while suffering a bit from a longer reset, had a noticeably smoother trigger pull and was just about the most shootable gun I've ever used.

Weer'd Beard said...

"It was soft-shooting for a plastic .45, and unlike some other double-stacks in the genre *coughGlock21cough*, the grip circumference was smaller than a 2x4."

Well said grip IS only built for 10 pills. I found the M&P45 the same way, but it too is set up for a box of ten.

Now the XDm45 I handled at the NRA show, that was a good feeling gun, which impressed me because it eats from a box more comparable to the G21

Just picking nits.

Nowayoutbutup said...

"Perhaps I'm telling a joke?"

That WAS German humor.
Sounded quite a bit like my grandfather come to think of it.

Tam said...


"However, I prefer the rolling nature of the LEM to the glass rod break of a 1911 specifically because it's easier to anticipate the moment of discharge with the all-or-nothing single action trigger."

I have no doubt that my problem in getting press-outs right was exacerbated by my gun's no-travel, sub-4-pound "'Go' Button".

Some tinkering in the basement suggested that I find the concept much easier to execute with one of my DA revos. :o

Anonymous said...

"I have no doubt that my problem in getting press-outs right was exacerbated by my gun's no-travel, sub-4-pound "'Go' Button"."

HA! Using 100 year old American technology is why you can not appreciate the genius of German design.

You suck.

HK Engineering

Anonymous said...

I too have hands the size of a Samsonite Family Cargo Case and digits the size of bowling pins! I love my 21. Haters gonna hate I guess

Lame-R said...

HK triggers have never been anything to write home about, imo.

And why is it that HK fanbois DO get so easily butt-hurt?

Murphy's Law said...

After they discontinued the Jedi-quality HK P7M13, the Germans really don't have much to brag about, IMHO. My P2000 is just a handgun, but my P7? They'll bury me with that classic someday.

Anonymous said...

"And why is it that HK fanbois DO get so easily butt-hurt?"

Because the Dutchies could never take a punch. Glass-jawed Germans.

Next time we fight them we need not bomb them to ashes, simply put up a mocking blog post and they will sulk back home.

Shootin' Buddy

Sport Pilot said...

I’ve owned and shot Glock’s for the last eighteen years and for the most part like them, which is good since it’s also our departmentally issued duty pistol. Yet in all of the many thousands of round’s I’ve fired through them I don’t consider them to have a natural trigger feel such as in a 1911 Government Model or Browning Hi Power. As to the Glock 20 and 21, I don’t like them due to the grip size, my G-36 is a different story though; it feels like an improved version of a G-19/23.
I have to agree with the comment's about the H&K P-7, it's the best pistol they've ever made. I owned and shot the H&k 4 and P-9, both were horrible, the P-7 is a dream.

NotClauswitz said...

Nobody wants Poland anymore, it's all about the Lebensraum. Also the chicks in the Sudetenland are pretty hot. I feel like marching over there right now but I only have a Sig - but wait, it was built in 1989, Reunification is calling!
But I think the Sig trigger is more like my 1909 double-action Colt.

bluesun said...

Just curious: I remember hearing somewhere that if you completely dissemble your HK pistol it voids the warranty. Is that true? Are any other gun companies like that?

Tam said...

Heck, Ruger doesn't even have a warranty... :o

Steve Skubinna said...

Ever since I got my K31, and then a Sig 556, I've been overcome by the urge to sit on my ridge and shoot at uppity Germans. For some reason, those French and Italians don't concern me as much. And for whatever reason I'm not worried about the Austrians - must be because while I do speak German I don't know a word of Austrian.

According the the tag in the K31 it was issued to a Francophone, so maybe that has something to do with it, too.

Don M said...

Important to note that a warranty/guarantee limits the liability of the manufacturer. Without Warranty, manufacturer has liability limited only by the facts of the case and common law. With warranty/guarantee manufacturer liability is limited by facts, common law, and the limits of the warranty which ever is smaller.

And then, some manufacturers/retailers try to get you to buy the warranty...Normally 90% profit for the party offering the warranty.

Anonymous said...

That's why HK put out the VP70 (boat anchor/exercise machine) first, there was no where to go but up. Unfortunately, as stated above, they peaked with the P7 and undid the whole VP70 strategy.

Don't know a word of Austrian? Sooo, you probably don't know a word of Bayerisch either, which probably means you don't speak German, you speak High School or Army German:-)

atlharp said...

The Glock 21 shoots fantastic. It is the best shooting Glock made IMHO, much better than that terrible .40. Overall, I have shot a couple of H&K's and found them to be good pistols, but overpriced for what you get out them. I mean how many Glock/M&P mags can you get for one H&K mag? It's like a 3-4 to 1 ratio! H&K makes a good pistol, but with the price of a Glock there is still money left over for spare mags and yummy steak dinners! Holla!

TBeck said...

I love the P7, I've even hunted prairie dogs with it. I should have bought one of those plum-finished PSP's that flooded in a couple of years ago.

Steve Skubinna said...

Bayerisch? I'm guessing that's some sort of pharmaceutical jargon.

Anonymous said...

As an official life member of the HK Glee Club, I have suffered a lifetime of wedgies, nugeys, peckerheads, idle threats, verbal abuse and bullying. My butt now has the tensile strength and toughness of tempered steel. I am immune to all the barbs and taunts of lesser shooters. I prefer to take my revenge at the range where it counts. If some obscure wanker or self proclaimed gun expert wants to believe the 1911 is the pinnacle of pistol design, I have no problem with it.

There is nothing - and I mean NOTHING - better than spanking some idiot with a boutique 1911 with a 'mere' HK.

Snark away chickie, it's all ya got!

Tam said...

Damn skippy! I'm no operator, after all. :)

Murphy's Law said...

I guess I'm old because I thought that an operator was someone who worked for the phone company. Is that who HK is marketing towards now?

Anonymous said...

"Snark away chickie, it's all ya got!"

"Damn skippy! I'm no operator, after all. :)"

And another bewilderbeest bites the dust instantly and bloodlessly...if not painlessly; that had to hurt.


Anonymous said...

@ anon,
Steve Skubinna said...

Bayerisch? I'm guessing that's some sort of pharmaceutical jargon.


That's the German word for Bavaria which acts as kind of like Texas for Germany.
It ran it's own monarchy well after the Kaiser split. More or less invented hunting Rifles and even had a bicycle corps armed with rifles up to WWI.
Aviation note the "b" in bf-109 was for Bayerisch Flugwerks.

all of this probably files under
'it was another joke, in German'

note Austrians/Swiss/Dutch/Danes and most Scandinavians speak some mutually intelligible form of German.

wv fonic, as in you can't make this stuff up.


Anonymous said...

Try the XD 45. It's a cheap (er) gun which also features the 2x4 feel of the Glock with the added grip safety which I like.

When I grab a glock and toss it in a bag or a pocket I always remember the NY football player that nearly shot his dick off.

I like me dick and my XD.

Girlfriend has the HK sd with a suppressor.

Comparing Kraut manufacturing between HK and Sig we note that the HK has a more cheapy feeling plastic parts near the slide which don't take abuse very well.

Corrence of Arabia

Don M said...

Odd thing about German/Austrian/Bayerisch marketing: they always want you to drink the koolade. Bayerish in BMW means "We make cars now because all our aircraft got shot down". After all, nooone here knows anyone who drives a BMW.


Comrade Misfit said...

Steve, if you ever really want to feel the urge to shoot at Germans emanating from a firearm, pick up a Mosin-Nagant.

Steve Skubinna said...

anon, I'm not buying that "Austrians speak some sort of German" line.

You calling the President misinformed? Sorry, but I'm going to take his word over some anonymous blog poster, particularly since I can't even see your trouser crease.

Comrade, I considered a Moisin-Nagant but balked at adding another caliber to my stock of ammo. It was hard enough biting the (figurative) bullet and getting a bunch of 7.5mm Swiss. On the other hand, who knew Hornady made it at a decent price?

Well, I do, now.

And anyway, with a Swiss attitude I can pot at Germans without the urge to run all the way to Berlin.

Anonymous said...

Vergessen Sie nicht das Schwäbisch