Unc says that a bill is moving in the Tennessee legislature to exempt holders of toter's permits from background checks on firearms sales. This makes sense to me, seeing as how they already had to go through a background check to get the toter's permit in the first place.
Of course, I bought a lot of guns before I ever had to undergo a background check in a gun store*, and I don't recollect having to wade through rivers of blood to do so, but since we're stuck with the Brady Bill for the nonce, this seems a reasonable compromise. And isn't the other side all about the reasonable compromises?
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*Those didn't start until early '94.
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32 comments:
Other states have done it already, notably Michigan. It works just fine. The person had to pass a background check to get the permit, and any subsequent violation of the law would suspend the permit, so the permit is basically proof that the person's not one of those criminals that the gun-banners pretend to be worried about.
Yeah, they're all about reasonable compromises, alright. Unless of course, you're asking them to give a little bit, in which case you're being unreasonable.
KY has it. It makes the process a little simpler on everyone.
Gerry
It was that way in GA, too.
I'd think the license would have to be a bit more counterfeit proof than Indiana's license which is printed on that hard to come by pink paper.
Of course this would also mean that when a person becomes ineligible for a license, the State would have to actually do it's job and revoke said license. We all know how good they are at that.
Was that way here in Pa. Then it changed and doesn't matter legal toter or not.
CIII
Alaska exempts permit holders from the background checks, too - although most folks don't have a permit. Those are only needed when carrying Outside.
Works in Texas. Presentation of a CHL means the dealer is not required to call in the sale for an instant check. You still have to complete the transfer papers but they are simply held on file with the dealer for the requisite time. Not perfect, but an improvement from hanging around the store being tempted for another half hour.
My nephew, who has a CCW in South Carolina, says that he is exempt from permit/background check, too.
What Shrimp said. They only 'compromise' one way. My rights.
Our sheriff here, who is a "Please tell friends, neighbors and relatives to get your permit" is a little less on liking the no background check for purchase for permit holders. He's been in situations where it takes a couple days/weeks to find someone who has a permit to physically revoke it. So that holder would have still been able to purchase since he still physically had his card, even though administratively it had been revoked.
I'm not sure I agree with it, just pointing out his reasoning.
Chad,
"So that holder would have still been able to purchase since he still physically had his card, even though administratively it had been revoked."
Seeing as how he already most likely had a gun or three, I'm not sure what difference that would make. ;)
I'm not sure how that would work in Indiana as our right to carry concealed has already been ruled a Constitutional Right under our state Constitution. (It came out of that Gary lawsuit years ago.) That's why the BATF threw a hissy fit some time back and required the NICS check for Hoosiers as a Hoosier doesn't have to 'qualify' for the permit, other than be a citizen with no outstanding warrents or membership in a prohibited class. I'm sure Shootin' Buddy can amplify the details...
All The Best,
Frank W. James
Frank,
"...a Hoosier doesn't have to 'qualify' for the permit, other than be a citizen with no outstanding warrents or membership in a prohibited class."
Neither does a Georgian, and they don't even use snappy pink paper for their permits down there. :)
We've had that for ages here in Oregon, and the streets also do not run red with blood.
Same deal here in NC. Makes sense.
The streets didn't run with blood prior to the NFA of 1934 either, unless you focus only on Prohibition era gang activity, which would have been outside the law anyway you look at it. Nor did the streets run with blood prior the 1968 GCA.
Where streets do actually run with blood is in places where the citizenry has been effectively disarmed. -- Lyle
I don't know why there is a waiting period, after NICS, when I buy from a gunstore that has already sold me one or six guns. The waiting period is be sure I don't 'buy angry.' If I was intending mayhem, that day, well, I already have firearms, right? Or did I forget where I put them?
Hi Tam,
I was wondering if you ever do personal appearances?
I just became the Webmaster for a fledgling gun show promoter in Auburn, Indiana.
It's here: http://www.gunslingerpromotions.com
May be a long drive but it may be of interest!
Kentucky already has it and I love it! All they do is take a look at your ID, don't have to call in. Your firearm transaction takes half the time.
Tam: It used to be that way here in the Hoosier state (no waiting period, no checks just show your permit and go), but there was a big brooha with the BATF over the fact Indiana didn't do some mickey mouse background check on pink card holders. Hence we got the NICS check. I'm sure there are others who are better versed than I over the history of this and its details...
All The Best,
Frank W. James
"Well, if all your friends were jumping off the roof, would you jump too?" --Your Mom's favorite and your least- favorite argument response
I'm sure the major sticking point in Tennessee would be the state missing out on that $10 per-transaction "Poll tax".
Oh, and that "blood in the streets" thing.
@Gerry - isn't that the point of KY?
Yep, Rick, I think it's a money thing in Fla too. When I sold the store the fee was $8. A CWP exempted you from the waiting period on the logical assumption that you already had gun(s), but not from the fee on the also logical assumption that gov is not going to give up that revenue stream voluntarily.
An aside: trading a handgun towards another also exempted the buyer from the waiting period (but still not from the background check and fee). This seemed logical too, but had the odd effect of creating value and demand for old Clerkes, RG's, Ravens, fine Ring of Fire products, etc. A hunk with a formerly negative value (requiring effort to log in upon receipt and out upon disposal/destruction) was suddenly worth from a Jackson up to a Grant since it could be taken to a dealer or funshow for trade, thus avoiding a second trip to pick up your purchase. Don't know if any of this has changed in the five or six years I've been out of the loop.
Oh, and NJT: it's a no-no for the state or feds to maintain any sort of list or dossier as to how many or which particular firearms a legal buyer may own; a hard-won provision when the NICS was first adopted, theoretically inhibiting any God-forbid mandatory turn-in or search-and-seizure. And I'm sure they can be trusted to follow that policy religiously...but of course ATF can trace any gun any time at least to its first retail purchaser, so take that policy for what it's worth. Again, this is old info so not sure of any changes.
Dave: slick comment.
AT
It was this way in NV until a couple years back. I have a feeling that the state didn't like losing its $25 "Brady Tax" for every background check...
AT,
The "waiting period" must be a FL thing. Georgia, Tennessee, and Indiana sure don't have one...
What it is (or maybe was) in Fla is a three-business-day wait or "cooling off period"...
From NJT's comment it must be the same where he is?
I'd stop that northward migration of yours before you get to the next border crossing though...as I understand it, the waiting period there in Crook County is a lifetime. And that's for an honest election. Guns take even longer.
AT
CA has had a handgun waiting period since 1923. In the mid 70's it went to 15 days. (more idiocy: Since a San Jose area gun store/indoor range stayed open until midnite, the state mandated they hold it an additional day.) No hold on long guns.
Currently, it is 10 days for ALL guns.
The way I remember it, before NICS some individual states had their own system, and in Fla we had a five-day wait before that.
Once the Florida Firearm Purchase Program (call-in background check) was in place, there was an option to reduce or eliminate the wait, and Fla for whatever reason that must have made sense to the politicians involved, reduced the wait to three days.
Later, once NICS was up and running, state systems joined up with them to act as the call-in contact and liaison with the fed system, or alternatively the dealer could set up a direct account with NICS. Since I was fairly comfortable with FFPP and they had their wait times down to a mild irritation instead of the interminable and infuriating process they started out with, I stayed with them until I dropped the FFL in preparation to sell the joint. By then 9/11 had kicked in all the provisions intended to screw with every citizen with no connection whatsoever to any sort of obvious tango profile, and holding an FFL had become a lot less fun than even the pain in the ass it was before, and anybody with that license in their personal name stood a very good chance of having a missed cross on a t or dot on an i mess them up real good. Eff that, then and now.
And I haven't bought a gun through a dealer since, hence my out of touch situation as to the current laws. Eff that, too.
AT
AT,
I'd gargle crushed glass before I'd move to Illinois.
The only nice thing I can say about NJ's pointlessly stupid permit system is that it took me more time to fill out the 4473 than it did for the clerk to do the background check.
Face matches picture ID, name and address on that and my FID match, and the NJSP say they haven't revoked my FID when called by phone. Have you finished up that 4473 yet, it's closing time...
I'd have been a lot more impressed if the first purchase in this state hadn't been a his&hers with both my wife and I in the store at the same time (different clerks) doing sequential purchases, which went through swimmingly; only to find out a month later that the town cop shop had issued her FID on the card with my prints and signature and vice versa, and all of the paperwork (both FIDs and both sets of pistol permits) had one SBI # on them (those are supposed to be one to a customer). Our names are similar, and we share last names, but they aren't that close. Only reason we found out was that NJ requires logging of pistol ammo purchases against FID in most circumstances, and we each bought up to the 2-box-limit per person from the same clerk a couple of months later.
It was all fixed when we moved and had to get new paperwork anyway, but that kind of soured me on the utility of background checks
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