Saturday, March 02, 2013

QotD: Money Where Your Mouth Is Edition

On Magpul's going from Hero to Zero overnight with certain elements of the online firearms community, ToddG offered a pithy counterpoint:
What I see is a lot of people on the internet making demands of "someone else's company" that they would not make of their own employer.

Does your (generic "your") employer allow you to carry a loaded gun at work? If not, how do you tolerate working for such an anti-2A company while simultaneously complaining that a company like Magpul which has demonstrably supported 2A rights isn't doing enough? Quit your job to make a statement and then I'll be impressed. All the people demanding that Magpul do more and more to make a political statement while they do nothing more than sit on their butts complaining to the internet is just getting old.
That's something worth pondering while one is cinching the saddle girth on the Drama Llama...


Comrade Misfit said...

If Magpul has stockholders, they kind of have to sell to any legit customer. Otherwise, they're not doing what they can to make money.

Which is why you won't see Glock or Sig or Colt or Smith & Wesson joining in.

The only way a shareholder-owned/public company would join in on the NY boycott is if it was clear to them that selling to NY cops would cost them more in overall sales than not selling to those cops.

I don't see that happening, at least, not now.

Ancient Woodsman said...

If every major gun manufacturer refused to sell to New York, Chicago, or D.C., then those cities would go elsewhere to buy their gear. Any company anywhere - especially some third-world never-been-heard-of gun manufacturer - couldn't afford to buy better publicity than to be able to say that they were the choice of X-metropolis-PD, and I'm sure that they'd write the copy to say that "after refusing Glock/SIG/S&W/etc, they chose our product".

I can't imagine any one of the major arms manufacturers being willing to let that sort of thing happen, never mind so many of them together. Or, maybe every gun manufacturer in the world refuses to sell to such governments...and in the next FY budget along comes the next iteration of the original Springfield Armory or some such place where the government makes its own guns.

We rant about "the criminals will always get guns" even if the government outlaws guns, but we don't seem to recognize that the government, too, will always get guns, even if 'no one' will sell to them.

mikee said...

As someone who wanted but never bought an AR-15, and who therefore has zero dog in the Magpul fight, all I can say is that if their product is as good or better than their competitions' and less expensive, I will buy them if and when I have a need or desire for their product.

S&W had a boycott over their safety locks on revolvers. I think the key to my Model 60 is still in the Toolbox o' Cleaning Supplies where I put it the day I bought my gun. It resides there along with the key for my Ruger Mark III 22LR pistol.

I am not going to hurt myself to engage in a feelgood boycott effort of a company that can very easily survive and thrive without my business.

Tam said...


"S&W had a boycott over their safety locks on revolvers."

Actually, the boycott was over the agreement that Smith signed with HUD during the Clinton administration. The locks were added by the company that bought Smith after that fiasco.

Reno Sepulveda said...

The air is cool and smells of tree blossoms and the Dark Sumatra coffee is inspiring. Yes on a fresh, cool day like this it’s easy to believe that Magpul and Allen Gottleib are not selling out the 2nd Amendment and that John Noveske wasn’t murdered by a left-wing pharmaceutical cabal.

To be honest, it’s easy for me to believe that every day but a nice springlike day makes it even better don’t you think?

Jenny said...

(former deleted for "what the heck was I thinking?" horrible grammar)

Anyhow - I've always been impressed with Magpul. Their company culture has always been honorable, and they're going above in beyond in CO. Again.

Their most recent (3/1) press release was I think pitch perfect. I'm curious how their new policy will shake out (and don't want to dilute the unqualified awesome of LaRue, etc. ) - but so far it looks like Magpul is at least coming to the table with their principles in the right place.

still a fan. cautiously optimistic.

Bubblehead Les. said...

Keeping the Focus on Magpul, I think they are doing a great job in defending the RKBA. Let's see what the FACTS are, shall we?

A) Magpul says they will no longer sell to the NY VolksRepublik Gooberment as a result of the Anti-Freedom Laws. But that only means Bulk, Factory-Direct Sales.

B) They probably don't do much Factory-Direct Sales as one thinks, because that takes a Mega-Corps or a Gooberment with Deep Pockets to justify the order.

C) They sell to the Middleman Distributers, who can sell what they have to ANYONE who has the Bucks at whatever Price they want to sell it. Usualyy at a Mark-up. If the LEOs want to buy Pmags from XYZ Distibuters, nothing Magpul can do except not sell to those same Distributers. But if that's the only way for Fudd D. Cletus to get Magazines for his Tapco- Encrusted Bushmaster, then Magpul would soon be out of Business.

D) Now, Magpul has announced that they will NOW be selling to the Citizens of Colorado their Mags AHEAD of everyone else, just so that their Friends and Neighbors can Stock up just in case a Ban comes into Law. But XYZ Distributers gets bumped to make that happen.

E) Oh, and Magpul also says that they aren't increasing their prices, just their output.

So what I'm getting is that a Bunch of Cletii are whinging because they ain't getting their Stock of Magpuls they ordered a few months back, so they don't get to go to the Gun Show and put up their "Obama Special! Buy NOW before they're BANNED! ONLY $100!"

One other thing: Ever try to move a Factory? Just ask Og what it takes to cease Production, disassemble an Assembly Line, pack up Molding Machines the size of a SCHOOL BUS, transport them out of State, re-assemble them, and bring Production back up to speed. Not counting all the Paperwork, Unemployment Hassles for all the Good Workers that are being left behind to live off the State's Dole Fund, hire new Trained Workers, etc. This usually takes a couple of YEARS to accomplish, and it NEVER goes according to plan. But Magpul is willing to do so, all so some Idiots who jumped on the Bandwagon after they woke up and found out that Yes, Obama was SERIOUS about the Gun Control Laws he wanted Passed, just like he wrote about in his AGENDA back when he was running in '08!

And they want to Crap on Magpul. Idiots.

taylor said...

Thanks for the links Tam, now I know about Berlin Airlift and can participate!

Their facebook stream has some priceless pics 'shopped from the Berlin Airlift.

OT: There is also a letter in the stream from the founder that is very relevant. LEO sales have been suspended during Boulder Airlift.

Old NFO said...

Good point Tam, it IS teh Intarwebz, lots of hot air and very little action because a lot of those folks wouldn't quit 'their' job in protest...

Anonymous said...

There's a difference between boycotting and choosing to support the company that is most supportive of my rights.

I wouldn't boycott Magpul over this.

But if I had a choice between two equal quality products, one made by a manufacturer who has made some such principled pro-2A stand, and another company who hasn't, I'm probably going to go with the former.

Carmel IN

JohninMd.(HELP!) said...

Back here in Mordor, Barretta USA is talkin' a move out of Md. if the Legislature passes Gov. O'Malley's farce of an AWB. Photos & fingerprints to _BUY_ a handgun. not talkin' a toter's permit. Just to buy.

JD said...

I don't get it. Magpul has been great through all of this. . . I wish I could buy their stuff here in MA but we are already lost I fear

Patrick Henry, the 2nd said...

There is a world of difference between quitting my job because I can't carry and Magpul not selling to bad LEO/Govt agencies.

If I quit, it doesn't change a damn thing, except give me less money to fight the good fight. If Magpul stops selling, it has an immense impact. If the cops and agents can't get weapons they will be on our side to overturn these laws. They will have a dog in the fight. They will no longer be first class citizens while we are second class citizens.

That's the way it should be. No exemptions for cops, on duty or off.

Cincinnatus said...

I live in Colorado and Magpul are heroes to me. They've shown up at the Capitol, and been loud about their opposition. They've shown up and shown up big.

Anyone criticizing Magpul is really pissing me off.

Magpul will stay heroes to me for quite a long time.

Turk Turon said...

Amen, Sistah!

I long to read that NYPD is equipping their troops with Kel-tec handguns with the special 12-lb trigger.

AuricTech said...

You're thinking too small, Turk Turon.

I won't be satisfied until New York law enforcement agencies wistfully recall the days when Hi-Point would sell to them. The good news for New York law enforcement agencies is that Jimenez Arms' J.A. 380 pistol has a standard magazine capacity of six rounds, thus making it fully compliant with the New York Intolerable Act of 2013. Perhaps a sufficiently-large order from New York cops might convince Jimenez Arms to produce a neutered 7-round magazine for their J.A. Nine pistol....

Aesop said...

A certain amount of internet whining is functionally identical to the whining I see in the ER, or anyplace else.

Because an irreduceable subset of the population lives by the motto
"We're not happy 'til YOU'RE not happy."

The correct response is to ignore them.
Persistent harrasive offenders rate a suitable attitude adjustment, which in the intarwebs usually amounts to "You're ugly and your mother dresses you funny", just offered in linguistically and sarcasticaly superior terms.

Firehand said...

First I'd heard of this idiocy; damn.

Had a local restaurant chain in OKC, right after the open-carry law became effective, put up 'no weapons' signs. Wrote to them saying "Hey, you've had lots of customers coming in for years carrying concealed, why dump us now? If you want to have 'no open carry' signs, that's fine, but why tell people "We now don't trust you in our business?"

They sent a very nice "We hadn't really thought about it, and we will consider what you say" reply. And a short time ago they sent out "We've decided you're right. We don't want open-carry here, so we've got new signs going up saying that; concealed carry is just fine."

And a bunch of the open-carry people had fits because 'that's not good enough!' Because pissing on someone for not doing EXACTLY what you want is always a good idea. Or something.

Ed said...

There are several alternate strategies. Connecticut based Sturm Ruger also has production facilities in New Hampshire and Arizona, providing flexibility. Remington shifted production of their Bushmaster line from Windham, Maine to their Ilion, New York facilities, resulting in the non-transferred skilled workforce to be employed by start-up Windham Weaponry. Even Colt has started some production in Kissimmee, Florida instead of expanding production in West Hartford, Connecticut.

kx59 said...

The analogy is completely nonsequitur. The vast, vast majority of our employers don't provide armament or accessories to LEOs in anti second amendment states.
Maybe the LEO market in New York, California, etc. is larger than all civilian purchases combined in the entire country, but I seriously doubt it.
The publicly held company argument so they aren't going to throw their kit in with 2A supporters, I find to be BS as well. (see previous comment regarding market size)
I don't think we're in Kansas anymore toto.
We hang together, or we hang separately.
Apparently, we are all going to hang separately.

David said...

They found a way to lighten the Kel-Tec trigger?

Al T. said...

First step of balkinization of the USA, IMHO.

Tam said...


"The analogy is completely nonsequitur."

What analogy?

NotClauswitz said...

I have a Magpul 10/20 fixed-limited magazine I got for messing around with bipod prone, but the regular CA 10-rounders let you get the actual butt of the AR on the deck.

TheMinuteman said...

Tam, I think Todd nailed a point that for some reason escaped me and puts it all in even better perspective. It is worth noting though that Magpul has joined the boycott as of last night.

Just My 2¢ said...

In my book, Magpul is definitely gray. They steadfastly maintained the Minimum Advertised Price (MAP) of their products and prevented stores from advertising lower prices. You could buy aluminum magazines for $9 but you paid $17.95 for a windowed Pmag everywhere, unless you found a store priced them lower and didn't advertise it.

Lets face it - Magpul is trying to clear the table before the money evaporates. They're going to take a big hit if there aren't any new owners to buy magazines and AR15 furniture. If they can spin their strategy in a favorable light, that's just shrewd marketing.

Yeah, I have an backorder for Gen 3 magazines at Brownells. Yeah, they are that much better. No, I won't cry if I have to open my stash of NMHTG magazines instead.

Tam said...

Lots of companies have robust MAP policies. You don't have to be a Magpul or Surefire dealer if you don't want to be.