Tuesday, March 19, 2013
Today in History: Las Islas Malv...OW!
On this day in 1982, a bunch of Argentine "scrap metal workers" who kept referring to each other as 'Suboficial' and 'Teniente' and who just so happened to have an Argentinian flag with them, raised said flag on South Georgia Island. They were subsequently made to wish they hadn't.
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And if they had only waited 30 years, they might just have succeeded ;p
Thank you for that, Tam. Standing by for some ignorant and/or anti-Brit sentiment from a couple of the usual suspects tho.
A lot of us Brits have not forgotten the help and support that the then US administration gave (and offered). It put the US at odds with some regional partners and as such, must have been a tough thing to do. Shame the same can not be said of today's erm...leader.
Again, thanks.
Cheers- Rusty
Personally I've got a lot of respect for the Royal Marines and the Paras that marched from San Carlos to Stanley. Gotta love the attitude of "screw it, we'll walk."
BGM
Yeah we mighta helped a bit on the media/political scene but it was the Royal Navy, Royal Marines and Paras who did the fighting and bleeding.
We did avail ourselves of the opportunity to learn some things - which we've since forgotten or ignored.
And the gurkhas. Don't forget the gurkhas.
I won over $50 on that war. None of my workmates had read Kipling, Morris, Farwell, Frazier, Keegan, Hastings, or Marshall.
Dad and I attended the Edinburgh Tattoo that year. Took The Flying Scotsman from London. The pipers of the 7th Gurkhas were on board. Their travel attire was pinstripe suites and regimental ties.
It also provided the setting for that Eastwood flick "Heartbreak. Ridge".
When the bruhah first popped up, I raced for the college library and dug out "Jane's Fighting Ships". I was sure it was going to be a carrier war. I was half right and the Argentine Navy probably remains thankful they kept their half at home.
I still respect the Royal Navy crews that sat in San Carlos Bay with AA systems that didn't work worth crap taking poundings from Argie A4's.
And only escaping because the bombs were dropped too low ...
And a bit later, the submarine HMS Conqueror sent a bit of US military surplus to the bottom of the ocean. Amiralante Belgrano (being a beligerant ship and all) was sunk by the sub.
Belgrano used to be called the USS Phoenix and was a WW II Cruiser.
US didn't care about the sinking. It was paid for. And the Argentines were in the wrong.
Seen any good clusterfucks lately?
It also provided the setting for that Eastwood flick "Heartbreak. Ridge".
I think that was Grenada, which was invaded by the Cubans, not Argentinians. We can't go to war with Argentina. Where else would we get cheap PPK knockoffs?
Yes, Heartbreak Ridge was Grenada.
AS Rusty said - Thanks for the support (from one who was there, RAF Regt - so it wasn't just Navy, Marines, Para, Ghurkas and SF ;-) )
- especially for the support from the military, overt and covert, eqpt., spares and intel.
And as DanH said, we couldn't do the same now (and needed your help then), not that the milquetoast in Downing Street would anyway (come Back Lady Thatcher, we need you! The best Prime Minister we ever had, including Churchill, which is why the left still blame everything they don't like on her -sound familiar?)
"And if they had only waited 30 years, they might just have succeeded."
Well, yeah, except that they just held a vote on the islands to see how the locals felt about staying British.
Yes 1514
No 3
Still not going so well for the Argies 30 years later, either.
IN 1951 6 BROOKLYN CLASS WERE SOLD OUTRIGHT TO SOUTH AMERICAN REPUBLICS
TWO WENT TO ARGENTINA TW0 WENT TWO BRAZIL AND TWO WENT TO CHILE
THESE WERE RATHER FORMIDABLE VESSELS
9700 T0N DISPLACEMENT( TO CONFORM TO THE LONDON NAVAL TREATY) THE 9 LIGHT CRUISERS OF THE BROOKLYN CLASS AND A HEAVY VERSION
SERVED IN EVERY THEATER OF OPERATIONS IN WORLD WAR II WITH CONSIDERABLE DISTINCTION ESCORTING CONVOYS SCREENING BATTLE GROUPS SPEARHEADING INVASIONS
608 FEET 3 INCHES OVERALL LENGTH
ELECTRICAL WELDING USED EXTENSIVELY IN CONSTRUCTION
8 600LB PSI BUNKER "C" OIL BURNING BOILERS (6 SATURATED 2 SUPERHEATED) DRIVING 4 SHAFTS
= 100,000 SHP = 32.5 KNOTS 15000 NM RANGE
MOUNTING 15- SIX INCH 47 CALIBER
QUICK FIRING RIFLES IN 5 CENTERLINE TURRETS 8 FIVE 25 CALIBER DUEL PURPOSE QUICK FIRING RIFLES 4 SINGLE OPEN MOUNTS PORT AND STARBOARD AND A PLETHORA OF 40 MM BOFORS AND 20MM OREKLKEONS
THEY WERE ARGUABLY THE BEST CRUISERS EVER BUILT BAR NONE
THEY DID ALL THAT WAS ASKED OF THEM AND MORE
THE ONLY WAR LOSS WAS USS HELENA (CL-50) AN IMPROVED BROOKLYN CLASS IN A NIGHT ACTION IN NOVEMBER 1942 IN THE BATTLE OF KULA GULF WHERE SHE INFLICTED HEAVY DAMAGE ON JAPANESE FORCES STOPPING THEIR ADVANCE UNTIL SHE WAS HIT WITH 6 24 INCH LONG LANCE TORPEDOES
THE ARGENTINE NAVY DIDNT KNOW THE BRITISH SUB WAS THERE BUT CONSIDER THEY WERE HIT BY ONE TORPEDO WITH FAR LESS EXPLOSIVE POTENTIAL THAN THE BATTLE DAMAGE HELENA GOT THEY DID NOT TRY TO SAVE THE SHIP THEY SIMPLY ABANDONED HER
IN OCTOBER 1992 BERNADO O'HIGGINS
OF CHILE WAS LOST UNDER THE TOW OF A EX SOVIET TUG EN ROUTE TO THE BREAKERS YARD IN ALANG INDIA SHE BROKE FROM HER TOWLINE IN A TYPHOON IN THE SOUTH PACIFIC SHE WAS THE USS BROOKLYN (CL-40)1935-92
AN EPOCH OF MARITIME HISTORY WAS OVER
The most famous signal of the conflict was sent from South Georgia after the Royal Marines and D Squadron of the SAS reclaimed the island on 25 April.
"Be pleased to inform Her Majesty that the White Ensign flies alongside the Union Jack in South Georgia. God save the Queen."
And the Queen was there to see the Royal Marines embark. According to Hastings, she gave the command
"For the South Atlantic, Quick Time, March."
They marched to the Falklands?
Man, those guys are tougher than I thought! ;~)
Stretch: I only recognize Kipling among the names in your list. Care to tell who the others are?
BTW THE UN GENERAL ASSEMBLY PROPOSED
A SOLUTION TO THE CRISIS
THE BRITS COULD REPATRIATE THEIR
PEOPLE AND THE SHEEP
THE ARGIES WOULD KEEP THE THE ROCKS
AND THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY WOULD CONDEMN ISRAEL UNANIMOUSLY
I believe the Amiralante Belgrano, former USS Phoenix, had been present at Pearl Harbor on 7 Dec 1941
The Phoenix was at Pearl. IIRC, it was the only undamaged capitol ship.
A Falkland's thread up for a whole day and no one has mentioned Bravo November?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bravo_November
BGM
HELENA HONOLULU PHOENIX AND ST LOUIS WERE AT PEARL BROOKLYN BOISE NASHVILLE PHILADELPHIA SAVANNAH AND WICHITA WERE IN THE ATLANTIC
Falklands, Grenada at least they're both islands off South America.
I was 13 back on the date in question. I'll claim the disability of puberty for not remembering correctly :)
Sebastian:
Morris, Farwell, Frazier, Keegan, Hastings, and Marshall are all historians. In Frazier's case also a writer of historical fiction. Their accounts of the British military overcoming great odds through hundreds of years of conflict would have been of value to the Argentine General Staff.
Start with Farwell's Queen Victoria's Little Wars.
And I forgot to mention Peter Hopkirk. The Great Game was never covered so well as by him. Enjoy.
There's always the "history you don't know". Hadn't heard of Bravo November. Some aircraft just have a soul...most of 'em do actually...like ships and boats do.
+1 on Hopkirk.
And now the British have mothballed their last carrier and sold the Harriers to the U.S. Marines. The current gov't would not send ships, even if they had them. Those islands are British only until Argentina decides they want them again.
But it was a moment, wasn't it? One last time like the old times.
Stretch, thanks. I'll look them up when time allows it.
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