Tuesday, November 26, 2013

Can a safety layer be transparent?

I'd originally heard the term "racing stripe" used to describe a graze down the leg from holstering a firearm back when it was still caused by the thumb break of a cop's basket weave holster getting caught in a revolver trigger guard.

The phenomenon still exists, obviously, in the world of self-loaders. With a hammer-fired double-action gun, one can put a thumb on the back of the hammer to control it as one holsters, but this option is not available for striker-fired pistols without manual safeties. On those, "Being Really Really Careful" is your first and only defense against unexpected loud noises when putting your heater away.

Enter first the "Gadget" and now the Sure-Draw, the latter of which is currently causing some comment on the intertubes, some of which is the usual "I just won't pull the trigger when I'm putting the gun away," and some of which seems to misunderstand the nature of the device itself, apparently thinking it needs to be manipulated to fire the gun like a conventional safety.

Because I hate wasting several paragraphs of content at an Away game, I'll copy it over here, too...
No “squeeze” is required to fire the gun.

You can operate the pistol as though this device is not even on there and you would never know it was. It gives you the option, should you so desire, of putting your thumb on the back of the slide and blocking movement of the striker (or disconnecting the trigger) as you reholster so you don’t Grebner yourself.

I put my thumb there when holstering anyway because A) It verifies that the slide on the pistol is not being pushed out of battery by anything, and 2) It’s a good habit to have if you find yourself for whatever reason carrying a hammer-fired DA pistol as it will prevent a trigger-snag discharge from giving you a racing stripe.

There are guys who carry AIWB and who carry an HK/SIG/Beretta even though they’d prefer to carry a Glock simply because being able to control the hammer with the thumb on holstering provides an added layer of safety against blowing a hole in their femoral artery. A device like this or the “Gadget” would offer them the option of being able to tote the Glock while maintaining that added safety layer.

If someone would NEVER have an ND because yadda yadda booger hook something bang switch, then something like this isn’t for them, since they already have all the safety they need. *wiggles trigger finger like Limey actor pretending to be Delta Force*
Right now I carry M&Ps with no thumb safeties. My only protection on holstering is being really, really careful, although I put my thumb on the back of the slide just to maintain the habit. (When I carried 1911s, I holstered with my thumb under the thumb safety and pushing up.) If a device like this came on the market for the M&P, I'd buy three tomorrow.


Reno Sepulveda said...

Kewl! But can I get one with "The Punisher" logo on the back? Cause if I can't... well just forget it.

Flubnut said...

Or get a 1911 or Springfield. Grip safeties are your friends.

Tam said...

"Or get a 1911 or Springfield. Grip safeties are your friends."

This is why I rarely talk about guns on the internet anymore outside of a very few places.

Fred said...

Just another reason I like my thumb-rests, er safeties on my M&P.

I did do AIWB with my LCP this summer, but I do the whole "remove holster, insert pistol, stick whole thing in the waistband" method of reholstering with that setup.

Angus McThag said...

I believe that it was an Aussie actor pretending to be a Delta Operator talking to a Limey actor pretending to be a Ranger though...

Tam said...

Derp. :o

Scott J said...

I'll have to try the push up on the safety thing when holstering my 1911.

My typical method is trigger finger out in the air and otherwise normal grip.

Moving the thumb up there might give better control.

Papafah said...

Someone who knows more about this than I do once said:

"some things just don't need a built in failure mode"

Slightly different subject (ILS) but sounds like the same concept to me.

Tam said...

I have not examined the Sure-Draw personally, but one thing I do like about the "Gadget" is that if the only moving part were to fall right off the gun, you still have a working gun. I would hope the Sure-Draw is designed the same way.

Cincinnatus said...

People who react to ND scenarios with "Just do 'it' right" do not understand how humans work and that everyone has the potential for making mistakes. Equipment that leads people into actions that increase the likelihood of those mistakes always annoys me. E.g., those holsters with the release actuated by the trigger finger.

1911Man said...

Somehow, the Gadget guys managed to get their patent 8,528,242 issued in less than two years - gotta be some kinda record, measured in mere kiloKerryFlops. A quick read through the claims suggests it is well-written and easily understood by the jury; just a minor antecedent basis problem in one spot. Their attorney is in New Carlisle, between South Bend and Mordor, and has a registration number almost as ancient as mine.

global village idiot said...

I carry a Hi-Power but this is a great idea which should have come along much sooner.

That's not something I get to say very often - I'm glad it's out there.

That said, even if there had been one on this guy's Glock --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP6UvNgbqIA <-- he'd have found a way to bollix it up.

There's no such thing as foolproof - the best you can hope for is "idiot-resistant."

Paul said...

Humans make mistakes. More safety's are good unless you need the weapon in a big hurry. That is why I preach situational awareness. If you are awake and aware you are rarely surprised.

Anonymous said...

Clip draw sells a trigger block device for the Glock. It inserts from the left and blocks all movement of the trigger, push it out from the right with the trigger finger, this allows the gun to go BOOM. Small piece of some type of plastic, can also be used to lock gun up with a small pad lock on the right side. Rather simple and somewhat fool proof. I use them on all my Glock Pistols. Of course if you lose the block when it is pushed out it will necessary buy a new piece. The cost about 20 bucks.
That is my take on reholstering or carrying a Glock pistol.ATB

Tam said...

Yes, the Saf-T-Block was a hot topic of discussion on GlockTalk back in '99.

Poor solution when a lot of drawing and reholstering is involved. I'd hate to look for that thing after every stage in a match or after every drill in a class.

Steve Skubinna said...

Well Tam, what you need is a retention lanyard attaching the Saf-T-Block to the pistol.

Tam said...

All-in-all, I'm not sure how much I dig a safety device that requires dicking around inside the trigger guard to apply or remove.

It's one reason I don't get as all choked up about the Garand/M14 as some folks. (BLASPHEMY!)

TCinVA said...

I'm one of those guys who is packing a DA gun instead of a striker fired gun solely because I want that extra layer of safety. I've already had one gunshot wound in my life. I'm pretty keen on doing about anything I can to avoid another.

TriumphRat675 said...

I don't worry about the lack of a safety on my pistols - not because I'm perfect, but because I'm Kryptonian and thus effectively immortal.

Unless those JHP's are made of glowing green extraterrestrial rock, I ain't scurred of a little accident. The rest of y'all just need to HTFU.

TriumphRat675 said...

Wait, I'm sorry, did I say "Kryptonian?" I meant "delusional." I am delusional. My apologies.

sobriant74 said...

Some of us realize you post gun information on the Intarwebz for your own amusement and not b/c you're looking for half-arsed advice.
Thanks for the free ice cream.

Ohio Shawn

The Jack said...

"I have not examined the Sure-Draw personally, but one thing I do like about the "Gadget" is that if the only moving part were to fall right off the gun, you still have a working gun. I would hope the Sure-Draw is designed the same way."

Ayup. I'd wonder about the failure mechanism for that kind of safety as well. (Including breakages, gunk, wear, age, and everything else that a part has to worry about)

Another thing I like about the design is that it is nowhere near the trigger AND it doesn't use the trigger finger.

The Jack said...

This is also for my pocket guns I like to keep them in the holster when taking them in and out of the pants pocket.

I do the same hammer trick with my CZ82 and 1911 (when those go out of holster).

Now if they made one of these for a Kahr I'd have an interest. Maybe for a larger frame in IWB

CarlosT said...

What's the objection? If you holster with your thumb on the back of the slide, the grip safety does the exact same job as the Sure-Draw.

Tam said...


Because Glocks and M&Ps don't have grip safeties.

(Also, I hate shipping a gun to the manufacturer with a live round in the chamber because the grip safety is broken and therefore you can't run the slide. If you dig that, rock on with your bad self.)

The Jack said...

Out of curiosity what kind of gun and grip safety breakage causes the slide to lock up?

As far as I know a normally functioning 1911 can have its slide actuated with the grip in either position, but that's a non-broke gun.

I can see a fault causing a slide to lock up but I haven't heard of it.
(Okay admittedly that doesn't mean much given my limited experience).

Tam said...

The Jack,

"Out of curiosity what kind of gun and grip safety breakage causes the slide to lock up?"

The grip safety on the Croatian Sensation blocks the slide when not actuated. In some failure modes, one might conceivably wind up having to ship the gun back to Geneseo with a live round in the chamber.

The Jack said...

Owwie. I didn't know the XD's needed the grip safety in to work the slide.

In that case I could see it. Especially if there was no way to get the grip safety out without first removing the slide.

Skip said...

Been packin' before I invented dirt.
Two handed, look in re holster= no racin' stripe.
No shirt, no flimsy leather, no nuthin.
No gagets, just commen sense.

Scott J said...

"The grip safety on the Croatian Sensation blocks the slide when not actuated"

Wow, I feel unobservant. I've owned one since late Summer 2010 and haven't noticed this in the almost 1,000 rounds I've put through it.

Tam said...


"No gagets, just commen sense."

A 2-handed re-holster? So you muzzle your support hand?

global village idiot said...

Tam, we're either gonna need a bigger bus or a van to follow us - everyone brought so much baggage it won't fit in the below compartments.

It's not unique to the gun-owning public, but it's most observable with us, to wit: the tendency to comment or pass judgment upon a gun innovation only insofar as regards our own individual criteria.

In other words, "I don't need a [insert feature here] so I have no idea why anyone bothered and they should stop at once if they know what's good for 'em."

The gun-owning public is as diverse as the pet-owning public - declaring something a bad idea just because it doesn't work for me makes about as much sense (and for the same reason) as me saying Tam should send her cats packing because I have no use for cats.

As for the Garand and M14, the trigger safety is odd for sure but they're not the only ones with the safety inside the guard. What really gave me the vapors, however, was the one and only time I installed a winter trigger on my Garand and attempted to use it at the range.

The damned thing worked exactly as it was supposed to, and this realization caused me to remove it and throw it in the recycling bin the instant I got home.

I wasn't even willing to give it away because I didn't want its consequences on my conscience - if Cletus can't be bothered to observe safe gun-handling procedures with an un-modified firearm, asking him to do so with a gun whose actuating mechanism is now OUTSIDE the trigger guard is just begging for a headline.

Perpster said...

My reholstering practice (started when carrying Glock 19) is to place thumb over slide/frame joint to keep in battery, AND to place trigger finger BEHIND TRIGGER (between back of trigger and inner-rear of trigger guard), pushing it forward. This puts a physical block on the trigger, and creates force to oppose any force created by the front of the trigger being pushed back by errant clothing, etc.

Goober said...

The objection is the same objection for why I never post what kind of truck I drive or about problems with my truck online.

Because the discussion always degrades to brand wars, and bragging about how "my x is better than your x" when the discussion that the op wanted to have was about safety devices on double action autoloaders, not about how a single action autoloader with a grip safety is better than any DA autoloader.

It wasn't the discussion Tam was trying to have and the previous post's only purpose was to humble brag about how much better his pistol is than everyone else's. It wasn't on topic and it gets exhausting after a while.

Goober said...

This is a pretty common routine for a lot of folks. The issue I have with it is that it involves putting your trigger finger into the trigger guard well youre holstering your pistol. That is not good.

Goober said...

Me too Scot. I love my CD but I've never noticed this "feature".


Tam said...


"My reholstering practice (started when carrying Glock 19) is to place thumb over slide/frame joint to keep in battery, AND to place trigger finger BEHIND TRIGGER (between back of trigger and inner-rear of trigger guard), pushing it forward."

Er, no thank you. :o

Cincinnatus said...

Heck no indeed.