Friday, August 31, 2012

QotD: Taste the Haterade Edition

"This is because Kimber didn't design the 1911 - they just found ways to screw it up." -Andrew at Vuurwapen Blog
Wish I'd written that.

Anyway, speaking to the broader topic of his post, I'm not as down on carry gun modifications as he is, but I do see little reason to tweak a bunch of stuff that people often tweak.

Generally, for example, if people spent as much time and money learning to shoot the factory trigger in their plastic service autos as they did dicking around with aftermarket triggers, they'd probably be better off, and that applies to me, too (although in my defense, the Apex RAM in my M&P9 cost, like, less than a box of ammo and took less time to install than it does to drive to the range...)

24 comments:

Anonymous said...

Tam, you said dicking around. I love you.

Joseph said...

Just went to the range last night and my targets told me to get out there more often. Sheesh! Tis no joke that shooting is a perishable skill.

Need me a .22 and a long afternoon.

Anonymous said...

Well may-bee... but a good trigger is like sex.

Ancient Woodsman said...

I don't quite get this ^^^

What, if you can easily squeeze/pull/fondle it yourself you won't need someone else to help?



Bubblehead Les. said...

Yeah Tam, but remember back in the late80's/early90's when it was all the rage was to have the Glock trigger system made heavier so as to make them feel more like Revolvers? I recall certain Gun Writers saying that the "New York Trigger" was the way to go so as to "reduce the chance of Accidental Discharge when one was covering the Target with one's Finger on the Trigger."

Of course, those same guys would say that any Trigger Pull on a 1911 above 4 pounds was an Abomination that made that 1911 an "Involuntary Admission" to the nearest Gun Shop.

I wish people would make up their minds.

Anonymous said...

Worst part for a dealer is they want back the value of that "time and money" when they go to sell or trade their customized abortion. Tended to piss 'em off when I deducted for it instead.

PB

Kevin said...

In defense of Kimber, I have a first-generation Classic Stainless that has the best factory trigger I've ever pulled. I have modified it some (I dropped in a Cylinder & Slide SFS hammer assembly - no change to that terriffic trigger pull), gunkoted the slide black, put Crimson Trace lasergrips on it, and tritium night sights. It's my favorite pistol.

I had (past tense) an Eclipse II. What a piece of trash. I also have an Ultra CDPII - works good, but really only with hardball and 230 grain Gold Dots.

My M&P9 still has the factory trigger - and I've won bowling pin matches with it. I might eventually get around to putting an Apex trigger in it, but realistically, I don't think it's necessary. I WOULD like night sights, though.

Anonymous said...

I'v owned prob'ly 60+ handguns and shot dozens more.(had 4 kimbers,THEY ALL SUCKED)The best handguns I'v had were,Mod-19S&W, An uberty M-1873 in 45lc that'll hit a dime at 25 feet. and an armscorp 1911 that I cant seem to hurt, Damn things like an old Brockway, it just keeps runnin no matter what. And last a springfield GI .45 that I'v put god knows how much ammo through. I'v had and sold, 229s, glock's, Kimber's, HKs, M&P's,I think they are all over priced and over rated.

Sport Pilot said...

At one time I was into customized Colt 1911 and Browning HP pistols and spent a good bit of coin on all of them. After I went into LE I became a bone stock revolver & pistol advocate. The only thing I bent on was installing night sights and a better set of grips or stocks. Now I'm of the opinion it's your business, but if I issue it to you don't screw around with it. If its your BUG or off duty gun stay within policy and keep it safe.

Matt G said...

Oh yeah, well!?! My Kimber 1911 paperweight shootz straight and yer tupperSmithGlockinator is doo-doo!

;)

Anonymous said...

What ever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you! Your gun is caca!

The end of every gun forum arguement.

Gerry

mustanger said...

Well, I like two or three different semi-autos... 1911A1, Walther P-38/P1... stuff like that. I also like certain better SA and SA/DA revolvers. Either way, revolver or selfloader, I like mine to fit my hand and run smooth and so I'm comfortable with it. It better go bang and hit where I put the sights.

Some guns need minimal customization while others suffer from it. Aside from some grips/stocks, sights, and triggers, I haven't been real bent on fixing what ain't broke or modifying what seems to work just fine.

And when you bet your life on something, it MUST run. So I think don't make mods you can't be sure of.

PhilaBOR said...

I spent time and money learning to shoot the factory trigger in my LCP. I still hated it. Bought a SIG P238 and carry it completely stock. It's a sweety.
OTOH, my carry M&P has the APEX DCAEK because M&P stock triggers suck and as I learned to shoot my M&P stock trigger, I learned that it sucked.
I don't know if Tom Gresham and Michael Bane know what they're talking about but they're big advocates of good triggers as a prerequisite for accurate shooting.

Tam said...

MattG,

Us current or previous owners of "Series I" Kimbers should be more enraged than anybody. ;)

roland said...

Betrayed, even. I have unwittingly endorsed Kimber products based on very positive experiences. Didn't know they'd embraced the suck 'til it was too late. I felt like more of an idiot than usual.

Texas Sean said...

Boy! Man! (seemed a good start with the dicking around commentary) I sure wish I could afford a Kimber..... Go buy a whole lot of ammo and train harder with my SR9C which, incidentally, has a great trigger right out of the box.

Tam said...

PhilaBOR,

"I don't know if Tom Gresham and Michael Bane know what they're talking about but they're big advocates of good triggers as a prerequisite for accurate shooting."

Met 'em both; broke bread with 'em both; think they're great guys who know a lot about guns. Never taken a class from either of 'em.

Old NFO said...

Have both Glocks and 1911s, can shoot both. Tam, as you've said before, range time and getting those thousands of rounds down range does get you 'use' to the vagaries of various triggers. If people want to play games with 'their' guns/triggers, that's on them. Not us...

kx59 said...

ain't the arrow, it's the indian.

Larry said...

I recall certain Gun Writers saying that the "New York Trigger" was the way to go so as to "reduce the chance of Accidental Discharge when one was covering the Target with one's Finger on the Trigger."

You know what else prevents Accidental Discharge?

Taking your booger hook off of the bang switch unless you want to make some noise and holes in things.

Gosh...if only there were some sort of guidelines we could follow...

mustanger said...

From my own experience, thankfully not in serious action, the trigger finger along the 1911A1 frame can find the trigger fast enough when need be. I got the idea reading from Massad Ayoob (sp?) long before dealing with irate RO's.

Firehand said...

My carry piece is a Kimber Compact Aluminum I bought about fifteen years ago(before they decided they needed more for the Unobtanium they thought they were using in parts). I don't know what their service was like back then, because I've never had a problem with it. Put on fiber-optic sights and CT grips, and it's been refinished with cerakote due to having so little finish left.

And then they decided 'guns that actually work' was less important than- whateverthehell, and taking care of customers wasn't a big deal... idiot way to run a railroad.

On the other side, son bought a Rock Island 1911 because he wanted a .45, and wanted one he could mess with without feeling he was threatening a major investment. New sights, new grips, put on a extended thumb safety, and fooled with some other things just because he wanted to. He hasn't touched the internals other than cleaning, and the thing hasn't bobbled once on him. From the people he's talked to, those who have had a problem contacted RI and it got fixed. Fast. Now THAT'S how to run things.

Robin said...

The earlier Kimber's gave decent value but in the last decade or so their QC sucks.

I don't think much of messing with the trigger mechanisms of carry guns. This is because - with some exceptions like 1911s - I don't think that the aftermarket companies really can convince me that they know more about the design tolerances of a pistol than the manufacturer. Maybe they do, but how to convince me?

In 1911s, we have a century of experience and know what mucking around will do. Not a lot of pistol designs have that kind of knowledge base spread outside of the manuf engineering shop.

mikee said...

Back when Blazer aluminum cased 9mm was about $.05/round, I shot a lot more than I do now. And I found that as I got better with my clunky, absolutely stock Glock 19 an amazing thing happened. I got better with my S&W Model 10 in 38SPL, better with my Ruger GP-100 in .357, and better with my Mark II Ruger 22LR.

If you get better with the gun that is hardest for you to shoot, everything else seems easier, too.