Sunday, September 16, 2012

This will all end in tears.

So, some municipal PD in the Garden State has figured out how to scam some H&K buzzguns on the taxpayer dime. Note that if it was just shoulder arms they wanted, you practically have to post guards to keep the federal government from sneaking surplus M16s into the department armory these days, but no, Kraut maschinenpistolen are cooler, and chambered in .40, just like their duty sidearms!

With what task are they justifying the purchase of these full rock'n'roll bullet hoses? Well, the guns (which will surely be allocated amongst the 15-man department based on duty assignment and skill with the weapon and not who plays poker with the chief on Saturday nights) are needed to protect and serve... the Borough Council.
Police Chief George Becker linked the acquisition of the rifles to the recently begun practice of having a police officer at each Borough Council meeting. “We don’t know, with the way things are today, who’s going to walk through that door. It’s a public meeting and there’s 50 people in here and some crazy person wants to see how many he can take out. You see it all over the country, in schools, in government buildings; it’s in grocery stores, for God’s sake, it’s everywhere.”
I can hardly wait to see some half-trained Joisey Barney Fife cutting loose with a UMP-40 set to "group therapy" in a room packed with small-town politicians. It'll make the recent NYPD Fifth Avenue Fiasco look like a Saturday night sorority squirt gun fight.

I'd almost be willing to charge into the room waving a black-painted rubber chicken and yelling "Al's who Act Bars!" just to set him off. I figure I'd be the safest person in the room while he mows down the zoning committee and half the school board.

45 comments:

Craig said...

This shows that these ass clowns know they are wrong, and are afraid of the "sheeple" waking up and trotting down the hallway with a five gallon bucket of tar to go with the packs of goose-down.

Robert Fowler said...

" “A lot of these criminals who carry out this type of activity have this type of weapons,"

When was the last mass shooting carried out with a full auto rifle? I must be getting forgetful in my old age because I can't seem to remember one.

mustanger said...

Seems to me a city council meeting, open to the public, is the last place you want cops/security armed with a buzz gun. I don't care who made the gun or what it's chambered for. Spray-n-pray don't cut it. I'd worry a lot less about "who walk through that door" than I would about how Barney's gonna react... speaking of which, if I were Barney's boss dealing with him and a buzz gun, I think I'd lock up the mags.

Anonymous said...

If my memory serves me, its usually mayors and council folks assaulting and shooting each other when city meetings go bad.

Adding a little machine pistol fire into the brawl may not be such a bad thing.

Gerry

Mattexian said...

When was the last mass shooting carried out with a full auto rifle?
Legally bought? Who knows for sure, tho I recall reading about one many years ago on a St Valentine's Day.

Funny thing, the top headline on this morn's Houston Chronicle reads "Stolen guns nurture violence" and yet, the po-po seem to be loosing track of their guns on par with the rest of us, so I'm not sure I want Deputy Fife forgetting his gat in a restroom somewhere.

Thomas Smith said...

Reading the source article I get the impression that they'll be neither trained in handling nor capable of judgement in using this weapon. I'd have been happier hearing the commander wanted them because they looked cool and rated well on the gaming forums.

Tom the Impaler said...

An armed intruder comes into the meeting, takes one person hostage and begins shooting others at random from behind his living partial cover. What good is the sub machinegun again? I guess set to semi it can offer better accuracy than a pistol but hell a Hi Point carbine can do that, Or a lever gun in .357.

RevolverRob said...

On the upside, "Saturday night sorority squirt gun fight" sounds WAY more interesting to attend than a Jersey Borough Council Meeting. In fact, I think I'd rather regularly attend that, with the vapid, brain dead, Delta-Delta-Delta girls, than even live in Jersey.

-Rob

Ken said...

I can hardly wait to see some half-trained Joisey Barney Fife cutting loose with a UMP-40 set to "group therapy" in a room packed with small-town politicians.

Ladies and gentlemen (and everyone else), I give you Tam, Deliverer of the Platonic Ideal of Snark.

NewJerseyThomas said...

I hate to put a damper on a good Jersey bashing session, but I suspect the UMPs being ordered are in fact Semi Auto only, and either the people being interviewed, or the reporter don't know the difference.

JohninMd(help!) said...

North Hollywood bank heist, when da perps had all the body armor an' freaked out the patrol cops cause "they won't fall down!"

JD Rush said...

NewJerseyThomas:
The article says fully automatic. The chief's own words:
Becker said, “There’s a saying, ‘You don’t bring a knife to a gunfight.’ Well, you don’t bring a handgun to an automatic rifle fight either … you don’t stand a chance."

I am quite aware of the media like of calling everything with a detachable mag full auto, but in this case it sounds correct.

Ken O said...

Wait a minute, hold everything. I thought more guns was not the answer, that more guns equals more crime. Shouldn't they be getting rid of guns in their little utopia?

Six said...

Please forgive me for the length of this comment.

If there's one idea I'd like to get across to city and county administrators and police chiefs across the country it's this. Spend your money wisely and effectively. Forget the SWAT teams and armored cars. Forget the UAVs and whiz bang. Concentrate on the basics, the things that make up your core competency. Hiring, Training and Retention. Invest your money in improving just those three simple areas and watch the effectiveness and competency of your agency grow all out of proportion to your costs. Get rid of the hysterics and make good, common sense hiring decisions. Hire good trainers and stop being afraid to go outside your own training environment. Not Invented Here isn't going to cut the mustard any more. We're generalists and we need the specialists to teach us all the myriad skills we must have to be competent. There's a wealth of knowledge and experience out there that can help you immensely and a lot of those doing the training and teaching are more than willing to work for relative peanuts if you approach them reasonably and ask nicely. I know some who will work for free. Money spent here, hiring good cops, training and equipping them well and dumping the unfit, no matter how expensive, beats the hell out of the alternative. Add in an investment in the exploding less lethal technology arena and you're on the track to creating an agency you and the public can trust absolutely and be proud of.

The Great and Powerful Oz said...

There's a word describing the average violent criminal three seconds after he opens up with a fully automatic weapon - disarmed.

Joel said...

Six - where's the fun in that? You think these guys really expect to find themselves in a situation where they need submachineguns? They'd quit en masse. But imagine the fun at the next shooting qual.

Hiring decisions? That ship has sailed, dude.

Tam said...

Six,

"Spend your money wisely and effectively. Forget the SWAT teams and armored cars. Forget the UAVs and whiz bang."

The problem is that you can't show training to the mayor and the reporters from WLCL and the Town Crier; it doesn't photographe well, unlike armored cars, MP5s, and new uniforms for the town's Swift Reaction Task Force...

Anonymous said...



.-)

Critter said...

i dunno. my money wouls be on these toys sitting in the gun locker until they were sold for scrap decades from now. during the Nixon Admin there waas tone of Vietnam era toys lying around and the feds just wanted to be rid of it. helicopters come to mind. suddenly ever 5 officer department had a whirly bird in the air, gas masks, drums of horrid survival rations, and not a few armored cars. i figure 'this too shall pass'.

Anonymous said...

Don't know what the "street" price of kraut zip guns would be, but even at 5K a pop, they've got some well-heeled bad guys up there on the 'pike.

And NJThomas, if the popo are paying that for semi's, I gotta get their purchasing agent's phone number.

Netpackrat said...

> while he mows down the zoning
> committee and half the school
> board.

And here you had me convinced that giving German bullet hoses to the cops was a bad idea. Then I read the above, and start thinking that maybe it isn't such a bad idea at all, and our local department ought to get in on the game.

Tam said...

Anon 4:55,

I believe the price is for the whole package, including spares. IIRC, HK throws in a brief round of fam-fire training, too. (These are post-'86 guns.)

Anonymous said...

Does this mean that the "No Guns Allowed" signs at the entrances to New Jersey don't really work? regards, Alemaster

The Jack said...

I went to High School in that town...

I can’t say I’m surprised that Flemington has this kind of stupid Only-Ones mentality.

It’s built into their nature. This is just how New Jersey, especially the "better" (IE suburban commuter) part acts.

They’ve got the nice blend of New Jersey, NYC, and Philly arrogance, provincialism, and nepotism.

I think your prediction is right Tam. Some Fife will get a bit too "puncy" at one of those meetings.


Well... the county fair is held in that town. Maybe they'll go all Ninja on some errant carnies or skateboarding teens.

Sport Pilot said...

So, instead of a 9mmP pray and spray bullet hose the new and improved .40 S&W p&s is mo better because they carry that there .40 S&W. Wonder if they're gonna tell everyone how no one else is man enough to carry a .40? I just wonder what the response will be when an officer shows up for a council meeting with the H&K slung across his cheast?

rremington said...

black pianted rubber chicken??????

Jim said...

@ rremington......

....... "black painted rubber chicken" is actually, correct.

It's a tactical rubber chicken, dont'cha see?


Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Opinionated Grump (Rich in NC) said...

Tam,
it's pronounciated
'JerZEE'
only Hudson County tawkz dat way.
(Sheesh flyover country)
I'm a refugee from both NorthandSouth Jerzee.
Rich in NC

Gerry N. said...

Well, I just learned something I've been trying to find out for years.

"Tactical" means painted black and at least quadruuple the manufacturer's suggested price.

What do you suppose the going rate for flat black rubber chickens is?

Gerry N.

firecapt said...

Can I put my bullet in now Andy?

mustanger said...

Does the H&K model in question fire from an open bolt? I'm not sure Andy oughta give Barney a bullet for this one.

NAVIGATOR said...

FYI

IF YO GO TO GRAND CENTRAL TERMINAL YOU
WILL FIND RAILROAD COPS NYPD COPS NYS NATIONAL GUARDSMEN ALL WITH SIDEARMS ALL WITH GAS MASKS (NOT NBC-R RATED)AND
AT LEAST TWO EMERGENCY SERVICE OFFICERS IN THE MAIN CONCOURSE
BEDECKED IN BDUS FULL ASSAULT BODY ARMOR
LOAD BEARING GEAR HELMETS WITH BALLISTIC VISORS AND MP5S AT THE READY
ILL GIVE CREDIT WHERE ITS DUE THEIR TRIGGER FINGERS WERE OUTSIDE THE TRIGGER GUARDS(GOOD BOYS!)
THEY EXCEPT FOR THE PAINT JOB LOOKED LIKE IMPERIAL STORM TROOPERS! I WAS COMPELLED BY "THE FORCE" TO WHISTLE THE THEME FROM "STAR WARS"

Anonymous said...

"...The chief's own words:
Becker said, “There’s a saying, ‘You don’t bring a knife to a gunfight.’ Well, you don’t bring a handgun to an automatic rifle fight either … you don’t stand a chance."

"

Uh, not neccesarily. It isn't he tool, its the user. Having a burp gun doesn't guarantee favorable results.

The old geezer in Texas recently made that point about tool/user. Using a revolver, repeatedly connecting with a guy that had a rifle at 50-some-ish yards, when said micreant had murdered a couple people and was trying to ambush the responding officer.

Lots of bullets on tap doesn't mean lots of hits, and they all have to stop somewhere. In a crowded public meeting seems like the worst possible place to have a burp gun.

Anonymous said...

@Robert Fowler pretty sure back in the day Criminals would hit up National Guard Armories for equipment.

Pretty sure I remember Bonnie & Clyde having real BAR's and such, but could be mistaken.

Personally I would be happier if bad guns always used full auto, they would run out of ammo lot sooner, hit fewer people, and it would make target ID easier.

~Glamdring

DukkButt said...

If you are intent on mayhem, you just pop the guy with the full auto toy first and grab it. After the first few times he gets to carry it, he will be bored stiff. It'll be on safe and his reaction time will be way too slow to even have a chance. Then you have a MUCH better JoyOfMayhemNugen toy to continue your ummm.... mayhem with.

Do any of these people have even two functioning brain cells to rub together?

Tom the Impaler said...

I'm with the "tool/user" argument. find a copy of "Surviving Edged Weapons" and see Dan Inosanto and Leo Gaje literally help invent the 21 foot rule used by cops today. It isn't the pistol that wins against the gun, it's the pistol PLUS DISTANCE that wins. Hitting the target helps too.

Tom the Impaler said...

"Pistol wins against the gun" should be "pistol wins against the knife", Sorry it's late.

Anonymous said...

I like NAVIGATOR's comment. It makes funny red stuff come out of my eyes.

Noah D said...

Saturday night sorority squirt gun fight

Your ideas intrigue me, and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Cheif Becker: "you don’t bring a handgun to an automatic rifle fight"

Uh...are there lots of those in Jersey? If so, reason n+1 to never, ever go there. Maybe they could make it part of a tourism campaign? 'Like Call Of Duty? Visit New Jersey!'

staghounds said...

"I WAS COMPELLED BY "THE FORCE" TO WHISTLE THE THEME FROM "STAR WARS""


I will SO be doing that.

Ian Argent said...

For the record, Flemington NJ is central Jersey, getting on towards being out in the boondocks. This is the part of the state that gives NJ the nickname of the Garden State. Take a look at it in Google maps with satellite view turned on and you'll see an awful lot of open green field around the town. Not a town I hear am awful lot of in the news these days, especially for reasons that might justify machine-gunning anyone.

Shrimp said...

Hey, come on now. I think you guys are all looking at this wrong. If YOU had someone else's money burning a hole in your pocket, can you think of something more irrelevant and likely to piss folks off that you'd waste it on than full auto subguns? The delicious irony of it being NJ, the polizeistaat, buying Hubris Kraut zip guns is just icing on the cake for all them commoners to eat.

Tom the Impaler said...

Nice thought Shrimp, But I'd probably go with invasive, expensive and questionable night vision gear. Probably under the influence of the squirt gun fight mentioned by the other leering pervs here.

Cheesy said...

Government has officially become that Star Trek episode entitled, "A Piece of the Action."

Derfel Cadarn said...

I fully appreciate the fascination with machine guns,light,sub and pistol. But reasoning that they are security control devices in rooms of people or crowd control seems a little illogical. Unless of course the object is lots of dead and wounded. Perhaps our police forces are going to embrace the the ideology of collateral damage as fondly as our military. Nothing says protect and serve like boat loads of dead and wounded bystanders.